OOTS #843 - The Discussion Thread

[Mauve Shirt]

Le Gods. Not saying casting that terrible spell doesn't completely deserve this, but poor V.
If Familicide only goes after blood relations, then there must have been a lot of inbreeding among those who look after the gate. No spouses made it alive? Perhaps Girard shared Ian's "blood is the trustworthiest tie" attitude. At least we're sure now that they're not related.

[Tom Lehmann]

Which is why the poster that started this said it was the start of redemption.

Yes; that was me -- we are violently in agreement.

V has a long, long arc of character growth to come if V is going to surmount this.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

A spell that doubles back? Yikes! It would have been bad enough just going "down" the family trees, but this spell also goes back "up" the other branches!

Let's just say it was a good thing Girard was paranoid, and minimized leaving the compound. If he had been free and easy with his family, how many more would have been affected?

[Nightmarenny]

Le Gods. Not saying casting that terrible spell doesn't completely deserve this, but poor V.
If Familicide only goes after blood relations, then there must have been a lot of inbreeding among those who look after the gate. No spouses made it alive? Perhaps Girard shared Ian's "blood is the trustworthiest tie" attitude. At least we're sure now that they're not related.

...

No.

All spouses the family had were seduced to create children and then abandoned. There are no spouses at the Draketooth home.

[Nightmarenny]

Yes; that was me -- we are violently in agreement.

V has a long, long arc of character growth to come if V is going to surmount this.

Oh sorry about that.

[M84]

I like how Haerta designed a spell to kill everyone who was a blood relative of her enemy, but did absolutely nothing about non-blood relations, which are often far more likely to seek revenge than distant cousins. Apparently Evil Is Dumb. (Granted she may have intended it as a deterrence weapon or something rather than the use to which V put it, but her soul didn't seem surprised by this application.)

(Edited per the Giant.)

It's understandable that even an evil monster like Haerta would place limits on her spell. If she had made it less inclusive, it probably could have killed nearly everyone of the same species on the planet, including herself -- every member of a species is very distantly related after all.

Edit:

I think it would be hilarious if it turns out Haerta did accidentally kill herself with Familicide by not realizing that she was actually related to the target.

[GMantis]

Exactly. And it's always been the way I understood the spell. I don't why so many forumers thought it would stop at 2 steps, just from the short description Darth V gave. It was obvious Familicide is much more deadly than that.

There is no evidence that the spell would work beyond those 2 steps, so it's not surprising that most forumers think like that. Vaarsuvius doesn't seem to think that the spell works like that, or he/she would have added something to the effect that she would have also killed Tarquin and his children if he had a child with Penelope.
The spell description said "Anyone who could possibly make a claim to be related to [the black dragon] is gone now". If the spell had no limits, it would not only have killed many who couldn't make a claim to be related to the Black dragon, but probably all Humans on the Planet.

[Francis Davey]

Wow. That trap is a bit oddly designed. You would have expected to either crush V dead, or land her in the pit. But this way, it seems overbuilt to me.

My take on this is that someone wanted to make a really effective trap that avoided any reflex save nonsense of jumping clear before they fell through the trap door.

Bother: that was delayed and obsoleted by other remarks.

I like the idea that this could have been accompanied by an illusion, so adventurers might have seen a squashed flat party member (illusory) without seeing the trap door. Hard to make illusions that good, but this is the place to do it.

[namarx]

maybe it's just me, but i think something is wrong with the timeline -
the bodies have been dead for 2 weeks. lets assume 2 months.
V had gone loco like a year ago.

anyone?

[RMS Oceanic]

maybe it's just me, but i think something is wrong with the timeline -
the bodies have been dead for 2 weeks. lets assume 2 months.
V had gone loco like a year ago.

anyone?

Comic time != Real time. Belkar being dead "By the end of the year" was over three and a half years ago.

[Nightmarenny]

maybe it's just me, but i think something is wrong with the timeline -
the bodies have been dead for 2 weeks. lets assume 2 months.
V had gone loco like a year ago.

anyone?

V didn't go loco a year ago. The OotS reviews the timeline the very last comic. You may wish to review it. Remember that V's adventure happened the same day Roy was resurrected.

[Dr._Demento]

...and that was the last time anyone saw Vaarsuvius. We pick up our story a year later, after Belkar and Durkon are already dead, because the author is tired of this and is just going to take his million dollars and run to Jamaica.

[Saph]

A spell that doubles back? Yikes! It would have been bad enough just going "down" the family trees, but this spell also goes back "up" the other branches!

Let's just say it was a good thing Girard was paranoid, and minimized leaving the compound. If he had been free and easy with his family, how many more would have been affected?

No kidding. Going down the branches is bad enough, but a spell that keeps spreading THAT far? That could depopulate entire countries!

You really have to wonder what Haerta must have been like to develop a spell like that.

...and that was the last time anyone saw Vaarsuvius. We pick up our story a year later, after Belkar and Durkon are already dead.

Okay, I had to laugh at this.

Though I think Rich would get actual death threats from the forum posters if he stopped the story at this point.

[Kish]

I like how Haerta designed a spell to kill everyone who was a blood relative of her enemy, but did absolutely nothing about non-blood relations, which are often far more likely to seek revenge than distant cousins. Apparently Evil Is Dumb. (Granted she may have intended it as a deterrence weapon or something rather than the use to which V put it, but her soul didn't seem surprised by this application.)

More likely, she designed it to be used for torture. She went by Destroyer of Hope; you think she was worried about preventing retaliation, any more than Xykon is now?

And as far as the use Vaarsuvius put it to..."The pain ended too soon." "We have only begun to bring misery." "There is still so much we can do." She understood what Vaarsuvius was doing with the spell much better than Vaarsuvius did.

[Mooglefrooglian]

To those remarking on the fact that Elan would have died if Penelope had a child with Tarquin, this is not the case.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0640.html

"Every living creature that directly shares your bloodline is dead. Every living creature that is directly related to any of those creatures is dead."

This means that Penelope and her child would have died, and since Tarquin was directly related to the child, then he would have died. Elan would not have died, since he is only indirectly related to Penelope's hypothetical child.

This would not depopulate countries unless cast on a great-great-great-great-great-great (add more if you want!) -grandparent.

The purpose of killing the directly related creature of the bloodline is to prevent one angry parent from sticking around. For example, if you cast it on a mother, it will kill her children. If it didn't kill directly related people, you'd have an angry father on your hands. The purpose of Familicide is to prevent people from seeking revenge for killed family members.

This has been your very own special Mooglelogic post, signing out.

[Wolf_Plague]

I sure as hell wouldn't. There'd be a lot of celestial laughter from me (if I was a Deva) before condemning V to hell though.

Condemning someone to eternal tortures and enjoying that is an Evil act. Your supervisors may want to have a talk with you about that...

On comic:
I guess it's really good to know, that, as was shown in "Roy is dead" plot arc, dying in OotS world is an equivalent of forced deportation out of Material Plane. At least that bunch of random people killed still can live in their respective afterlives...

Well she did kill several thousand sentient innocents to spite(not defeat!) an already dead dragon.

It was to prevent vendetta against V's family.

"Had you simply attacked me I would have left you dead. But you made the mistake of involving my family in our conflict. This leaves me with the task of ensuring that today's events will never rise again to threaten them"

[Vesth]

I'm wayyy more interested in : what's in that trap? If it's meant to capture people, is it Girad that will 'talk' to V?

[faustin]

I´m more interested in if Roy and The Order can forgive V when they find the truth.
Speaking of, after V fell in the trap, shouldn´t his spell on YY broke?

[Nightmarenny]

Condemning someone to eternal tortures and enjoying that is an Evil act. Your supervisors may want to have a talk with you about that...

On comic:
I guess it's really good to know, that, as was shown in "Roy is dead" plot arc, dying in OotS world is an equivalent of forced deportation out of Material Plane. At least that bunch of random people killed still can live in their respective afterlives...


It was to prevent vendetta against V's family.

"Had you simply attacked me I would have left you dead. But you made the mistake of involving my family in our conflict. This leaves me with the task of ensuring that today's events will never rise again to threaten them"

No that's the motive she claims to have. She is lying to herself. It was revenge.

[Skyrunner]

Personally, I think the Familicide travels either up or down. So when the spell hits Mama Dragon, all her ancestors die, and all her descendants die. No proof, but also is an easy way to prevent depopulation o' de world.

[Sunken Valley]

What will V find down the trap door? Speculation!

[Wolf_Plague]

No that's the motive she claims to have. She is lying to herself. It was revenge.

Can I have a prooflink? Too much strips passed since then.

[RMS Oceanic]

I´m more interested in if Roy and The Order can forgive V when they find the truth.
Speaking of, after V fell in the trap, shouldn´t his spell on YY broke?

The spell only ends if Yukyuk makes a save, V dismisses or dispels the spell or V dies.

[GMantis]

To those remarking on the fact that Elan would have died if Penelope had a child with Tarquin, this is not the case.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0640.html

"Every living creature that directly shares your bloodline is dead. Every living creature that is directly related to any of those creatures is dead."

This means that Penelope and her child would have died, and since Tarquin was directly related to the child, then he would have died. Elan would not have died, since he is only indirectly related to Penelope's hypothetical child.

This would not depopulate countries unless cast on a great-great-great-great-great-great (add more if you want!) -grandparent.

The purpose of killing the directly related creature of the bloodline is to prevent one angry parent from sticking around. For example, if you cast it on a mother, it will kill her children. If it didn't kill directly related people, you'd have an angry father on your hands. The purpose of Familicide is to prevent people from seeking revenge for killed family members.

This has been your very own special Mooglelogic post, signing out.

No, that's not how it works, because Vaarsuvius said that the spell had also killed all indirect relatives (siblings and cousins) of those who were only related to one of the relatives of the dragon. So Tarquin and his children (if he had a child with Penelope) would also have been killed if the spell extended to more than two steps, but that contradicts the spell description.

[bhtooefr]

Two possibilities here:

1. V is mistaken about it potentially killing a child between Penelope and Tarquin
2. V isn't mistaken, and Familicide goes FAR further than we thought, in which case it's either got a hop limit when going off the bloodline to stop at that child, or it doesn't and it hits Tarquin, Elan, Nale, and their mother.

[Dr._Demento]

What will V find down the trap door? Speculation!

A NEW CAR!

Oh wait, that was Trap door #3.

She gets a lifetime supply of ACID BREATHING SHARK.

[Nightmarenny]

Can I have a prooflink? Too much strips passed since then.

Admittedly it's an interpretation of the material.

[Cisturn]

Hey guys, I think it's possible that Girard might be alive. We haven't seen body sure, but the only thing that can counter epic magic is epic magic. We know Girard was crazy paranoid, maybe he had some kind of buff up that protected him.

[RMS Oceanic]

Hey guys, I think it's possible that Girard might be alive. We haven't seen body sure, but the only thing that can counter epic magic is epic magic. We know Girard was crazy paranoid, maybe he had some kind of buff up that protected him.

That may well be. The popular theory right now is that he's the Statue from 841, a form of suspended animation until such times as he's needed.

[namarx]

V didn't go loco a year ago. The OotS reviews the timeline the very last comic. You may wish to review it. Remember that V's adventure happened the same day Roy was resurrected.

nope.
i can't discern the exact amount of time elapsed, but it's definately more then 2 weeks, 2 months, or whatever.

i think our beloved rick has has a slight goof here.
s'ok, his stuff is great anyway...

n