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2012-03-10, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
That's the characters' inference for why the Resurrection didn't work. It may or may not be true. (It may or may not matter whether or not it's true; in the latter case, we may never get anything to confirm or refute it.)
It does fit what we know about Girard (and what he would therefore teach his followers), so there's no real reason to doubt it, but the door is open for another explanation if and when the story calls for it.
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2012-03-10, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
They could learn something from tsukiko -- The buddy system. You should never have one adventurer going alone anywhere unless it is the party rogue scouting ahead. Especially not the mage with no con bonus or the cleric.
Last edited by silvadel; 2012-03-10 at 12:04 PM.
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2012-03-10, 12:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
The game mechanics as writen in the PHB actually agree with Rich, not you. I can't help how you game, but genocide is clearly evil by the rules, a character being evil clearly doesn't neccessarily justify killing it by the rules (you need an actual crime), and races are never a monolithic alignment by the rules (not even "always" races), and goblins and orcs aren't even always races.
Killing a goblin because he's a goblin is flat out evil by the rules as writen.
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2012-03-10, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
Leaving aside the oddly creepy and defensive tone of your argument, I don't think that's what Bulldog Psion was talking about. A common dismissal of heroic fantasy gaming is that it's just an excuse for engaging bloodlust and racism, justified because the victims have green skin instead of a more human color, and because the rules describe them as innately evil. His point, and I agree, is that not all gamers who fight monsters are necessarily doing so out of some veiled bigotry, and for the most part, the rules are also not saying that. That isn't a judgment about people playing characters who are in fact demonstrably villains like you describe, which is a perfectly valid path as long as you're honest about it. His comment more relates to the idea that fantasy gamers are immoral and racist because they're "grave-robbing murderers who slaughters green people because they are arbitrarily called evil." It's not something I've seen in a lot of games either, but it's a common criticism.
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2012-03-10, 12:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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2012-03-10, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
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Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
The other possiblity involves that the Familicide Spell was sooo high level that Durkon couldn't penetrate it. However even if the he was able to break through the triggering of the spell at the false location would be further incentive for any souls to stay away. LOVE the cutaway to V not just to show us how he's doing, but emphasizing that it was his actions.
Wizard's First Rule: People will believe anything, either because they want it to be true, or they are afraid it is true.
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2012-03-10, 12:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
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2012-03-10, 01:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2010
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Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
So I'm a little curious thanks to Familicide how much of the worlds population in general has been eliminated. In the mosaic panel of the Familicide spell I saw a centaur-drake, and other mixed breeds.
V cast it so that no one of the Dragon's family would come after him/her and him/her family again but now that it's been spelled out for us. It seems likely that another group of Adventurers would probably be setting up to hunt down V.
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2012-03-10, 01:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
I think there are a few things you are missing:
1. Their thought process is most likely that any lawful good cleric, regard less of diety is an ally of Soon and his men and can't be trusted. Also this comic shows that Girard think of the 12 gods of the south as a " glorified petting zoo", showing a disbelief of, or at least mistrust of gods in the first place so Durkon being a cleric of Thor obviously makes no difference.
2. They probably think they are. If they don't know that everyone is dead their thought process is most likely "I am died, A lawful cleric (obviously one of Soon's lackeys) is trying to raise me, if he does he will likely torture me or mind control me until I give him information on the gate, I better stay dead"
3. I am pretty sure that distrust can override curiousity in this case if they are this level of chaotic, also it has been shown that if someone is curious they don't need to be raised they can just go to this demiplane a watch them, or just go down themselves.Last edited by KingFlameHawk; 2012-03-10 at 01:32 PM.
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2012-03-10, 01:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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- NE
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Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
Aren't the stories, other than the Stick Tales framing story, in SSaDT considered a separate continuity from the main comic? I thought Rich mentioned that in the commentary for the 4 edition story.
edit: Something occurred to me, is it possible that after dying the Draketooths found out what killed them and that V is responsible, so that they are not refusing resurrection because Durkan is LG, but because he is in the same party as the person who killed them?Last edited by thepsyker; 2012-03-10 at 01:40 PM.
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2012-03-10, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
It's gets fuzzy.
Belkar being an accomplished gourmet chef came originally from the "separate continuity" Dragon Magazine comics, also reprinted in that collection.
His gourmet culinary skills have now come up twice in the main story: Late in the Battle of Azure City when he cooked for the MitD to barter for Roy's corpse, and the rescue of V from his extraplanar exile.
Sounds like the precedent is that the actual events of the side-comics are a separate continuity, but skills & abilities of the characters are constant in both.
Since Use Magic Device is a class skill for Rogues (and was based off the AD&D ability of Thieves to use scrolls), having Haley be able to use a Resurrection scroll is quite plausible.
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2012-03-10, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
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2012-03-10, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
"Obviously", no less?
His contempt may be directed only at those 12, there's nothing obvious here.
Also, thinking that any lawful-good cleric would be nothing but an enemy is definitely a stretch here.
2. They probably think they are. If they don't know that everyone is dead their thought process is most likely "I am died, A lawful cleric (obviously one of Soon's lackeys) is trying to raise me, if he does he will likely torture me or mind control me until I give him information on the gate, I better stay dead"
Also, paladins torturing and mind controlling people?
Girard knows full well how paladins think and act, that's the very basic reason for his contempt towards them.
If there would be one prone to torture/mind control, that would be Girard, not lawful-good paladins.
3. I am pretty sure that distrust can override curiousity in this case if they are this level of chaotic, also it has been shown that if someone is curious they don't need to be raised they can just go to this demiplane a watch them, or just go down themselves.
Sorry, I'm just not buying any of these reasons.Last edited by Mantine; 2012-03-10 at 02:40 PM.
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2012-03-10, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
Okay, 4 things here.
1. The effects of the Familicide Spell have been great enough that it really should have attracted more divine intervention than it has. All we know is that Tiamat is unhappy. But this kind of spell should have attracted the attention of a couple of Avatars at the very least.
2. I concur with Finagle - the party made a stupid decision on who to try to rez. Not that it matters, really, but it is the little things you know.
3. Lots of people are missing the point that the reasons the characters are stating for why the resurrection didn't work doesn't mean those reasons are accurate. They're just pulling guesses out of their collective asses.
4. I wonder if the IFCC views it in their self-interest to keep V alive for a while longer... obviously the more powerful V upon death the better for the IFCC. I figure they'd at least want V to reach level 20...
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2012-03-10, 03:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2008
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Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
Girard's comment may have only referred to the 12 Gods of the Southern Continent. But it came off to me as him being contemptuous of the very concept of worshiping a god or gods.
V seems to assume that the IFCC will get their time controlling him upon his death. But they never actually said that. It's entirely possible (IMO, probable) that they'll end up taking control of him while he's still alive. Taking possession of his soul for 44 minutes and 16 seconds after his death would be of limited use at best. Doing so for the same amount of time while he's alive , on the other hand, could be a lot more useful.
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2012-03-10, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
Girard's comment may have only referred to the 12 Gods of the Southern Continent. But it came off to me as him being contemptuous of the very concept of worshiping a god or gods.
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2012-03-10, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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2012-03-10, 03:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
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Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
I don't think it's just the Southern Gods; Girard comes across very strongly as the OotS-verse's Christopher Hitchens. Which is a bit Flat Earth Atheist, considering the context...
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2012-03-10, 03:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
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2012-03-10, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
I think Rich meant to use the cutaway to show two things. One, Vaarsuvius is still alive. Two, Roy's belief that the killings were caused by a new villain is incorrect, because they were caused by Vaaruvius, who is not a villain.
She had a few strands of red hair left, which I take to be an implication that she's a descendant of the Draketooth dragon. Based on what happened with Penelope, I don't think the Draketeeth kept their spouses around.
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2012-03-10, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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2012-03-10, 03:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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2012-03-10, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
In his defense, undeniably real or not, the OOTS gods have not shown themselves as particularly worthy of devotion. I'm not sure I'd be inclined to worship them either, although Girard's attitude does seem rather more extreme then, say, someone like Roy.
To put in TV Tropes terms, I'd peg Girard more as the Nay Theist then the Flat Earth Atheist.
Right. You can certainly make the argument that the Draketooths' refusing resurrection is contrived, but don't try and base it on their knowledge of how paladins operate.
If anything, I think his travels with Soon made Girard all the more convinced of his view of paladins, if they didn't create it in the first place.
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2012-03-10, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
Rbetieh's silly musing # 15678 : This comic makes me think that the OOTScribble had their falling because of a bad argument about Trivial Pursuit.
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2012-03-10, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
Again with the crazy assumptions?
"he learned nothing" "he'll believe anything"
All we know is that he believed Soon able to break an oath for the sake of world protection, which isn't the same as thinking that a paladin would resort to torturing people. Let's not be crazy now.Last edited by Mantine; 2012-03-10 at 04:32 PM.
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2012-03-10, 04:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
i cant help but think of a dead guy sitting in paradise and getting a message from one of those awful machines
"you have a ressurection from a -BSSSST- LAWFUL GOOD - Cleric, if you want to accept the ressurection press one, if you wish to remain dead press 2"
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2012-03-10, 04:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by t209; 2012-03-10 at 04:29 PM.
Badly drawn helmet avatar drawn by me.
Rest in Peace:SpoilerMiko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
Krunch- Looking For Group
Bill- Left 4 Dead
Soap Mactavish- Modern Warfare 3
Sandman- Modern Warfare 3
Ghost and Roach- Modern Warfare 2
Gabe- Dead Space 2
Dom- Gears of War 3
Carmine Brothers- Gears of War series
Uriel Septim VII- Elderscrolls Oblivion
Commander Shepherd- Mass Effect 3
Ned Stark- Song of Ice and Fire
Apple Jack's parents
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2012-03-10, 04:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
I LOL'd.
Anyway, I was kind of confused at first -- I didn't exactly understand the whole "it tells you the alignment of the cleric" thing (I was wondering why Roy didn't get a message) until I remembered that Roy would probably ignore the message, since he already knew Durkon's alignment.
But I enjoyed this comic. After the succession of more serious strips, it was nice to see a humorous strip that didn't feel... weird. My younger brother just finished the Archive Binge, and neither of us can wait for #845.
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2012-03-10, 04:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
I dunno about the whole "wouldn't take a rez from a LG cleric" when said LG cleric's patron (which they are also told based on the spell as written) is the "Chaotic Drunken" Thor. Granted, the Draketooths seem to think that All Paladins Are Miko, but that archetype surely wouldn't put up with Thor's antics... or do they think the rez info can be faked?
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2012-03-10, 04:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
Re: OOTS #844 - The Discussion Thread
I have been thinking, shouldn't 5% of people affected by the Familicide spell still be alive? Having rolled an automatic success on their saving throw that is.