3.5 Bloodline Making for Homestuck classes

[felinoel]

I've got a humorous request, help me list off spells and abilities and whatnot that follow the theme of some Homestuck classes for use in turning them into third tier bloodlines!
Here are the classes.

• Sylph of Mind

• Knight of Blood

• Rogue of Void

• Prince of Rage

Below are their descriptions, interpret them as you wish and suggest abilities and whatnot for bloodline bonuses.

Sylph of Mind

The Sylph is magic based that is speculated to specialize in healing. Considering the information given it could be speculated to be a passive class, due to "helping others" or "healing others".

The Mind aspect seems to be related to thoughts and decisions of individuals. Terezi is able to see what decisions will be made, and the outcomes of such decisions with her Seer of Mind powers.

Knight of Blood

Knights are warriors that exploit their aspect (in this case, Blood) as a weapon. Using their aspect to improve their own combat ability suggests that the Knight is active. Both seen Knights have seemed to function primarily as defenders of their teammates.
Dave has so far saved the lives of every single member of his team, resetting the timeline to save John and Jade, then later rescuing Rose from the Draconian Dignitary near the end of act five. Karkat is less successful in the role despite his best efforts. He does, however, manage to defuse the Rare and Highly Dangerous 5x Showdown, which would have doubtlessly killed one or more of his surviving friends. He also may have been responsible for resurrecting Kanaya, albeit as a vampire.
From this, and the traditional definition of the role of a knight, one could speculate that the Knight serves as a protector for other players in the session. Given these speculations, one could surmise that the definition of the Knight class is "one who manipulates their aspect (in this case, Blood) as a weapon in order to protect others".

The Blood aspect, like some others, has not yet been shown to have a literal or clear-cut meaning. Common theories include affinity, affection and unity in general, such as the word is used in "blood brothers".
Karkat, the Knight of Blood, has a reputation among his friends for sympathy.
It was stated that Karkat never fully realized his powers as a Blood player, however the Sufferer did begin to realize his powers as the Seer of Blood. These allowed him to see his alternate reality self living on Beforus, implying that blood powers may have to do with alternate selves

Rogue of Void

This deals with stealing, and turning the others' powers against them. While the active Thief will steal things to their own benefit, the passive Rogue will enhance their teammates, or their session with the stolen aspect and is described by Roxy as a "Robin Hood" of their aspect.
Nepeta, as the Rogue of Heart, is presumably able to give or share her 'heart' with others, as she does ridiculous things for the people she loves. Vriska, as the Thief of Light, is able to steal luck from her allies or enemies, and make herself luckier. Meenah, as the Thief of Life, "stole" her friends' lives (by killing them) so they could continue to exist after the scratch.

Void is associated with "the essence of lacking, or nothingness" and "the obfuscation of knowledge, or its outright destruction". It seems to enable players to act without being seen or noticed, as evidenced by Darkleer's apparent ability to hide the Cue Ball from Doc Scratch, Equius's similar talents during Vriska's struggles with the omniscient ballhead, and Roxy's occasional "dark patches" from Calliope's viewpoint. Void players may potentially also have the ability to become invisible in some sense, as it is seen that post-scratch Diamonds Droog becomes invisible with the "Ring of Void".

Prince of Rage

The Prince deals with destruction. The Prince, is literally simplified to "destroyer of [aspect] (in this case, Rage)" or "one who destroys via [aspect] (also Rage)".
The Prince's powers seem to include phenomenal offensive abilities, using their aspect to completely overwhelm other aspects or players. Eridan, as the Prince of Hope, killed or k.o.'d a lot of his teammates, including Sollux, who up to that point was one of the most powerful fighters in his session (second only to Gamzee, Vriska, and, possibly, Equius). He also destroyed the Matriorb, their hope for the survival of their race. Princes may be able to channel their aspect into its physical form for destructive purposes.
Bards can use their aspect to 'mimic' the powers of other aspects.

The Rage aspect is most likely tied to the emotion of anger. Gamzee, the Bard of Rage, was able to enter a "Berserker" mode, presumably by channeling his anger.

[felinoel]

Sylph of Mind

The Sylph is magic based that is speculated to specialize in healing. Considering the information given it could be speculated to be a passive class, due to "helping others" or "healing others".

The Mind aspect seems to be related to thoughts and decisions of individuals. Terezi is able to see what decisions will be made, and the outcomes of such decisions with her Seer of Mind powers.

So as for the Sylph, I was thinking of throwing in all the generic healing spells and perhaps some not generic ones, the minor buff spells for each type of ability, a boost in total spells being able to be cast per day, and a boost in spell power.
For the Mind I was thinking bonuses to wisdom, bonus saves against fear and mind affecting spells that eventually become an immunity, and stronger wisdom buff spells?

[felinoel]

Knight of Blood

Knights are warriors that exploit their aspect (in this case, Blood) as a weapon. Using their aspect to improve their own combat ability suggests that the Knight is active. Both seen Knights have seemed to function primarily as defenders of their teammates.
Dave has so far saved the lives of every single member of his team, resetting the timeline to save John and Jade, then later rescuing Rose from the Draconian Dignitary near the end of act five. Karkat is less successful in the role despite his best efforts. He does, however, manage to defuse the Rare and Highly Dangerous 5x Showdown, which would have doubtlessly killed one or more of his surviving friends. He also may have been responsible for resurrecting Kanaya, albeit as a vampire.
From this, and the traditional definition of the role of a knight, one could speculate that the Knight serves as a protector for other players in the session. Given these speculations, one could surmise that the definition of the Knight class is "one who manipulates their aspect (in this case, Blood) as a weapon in order to protect others".

The Blood aspect, like some others, has not yet been shown to have a literal or clear-cut meaning. Common theories include affinity, affection and unity in general, such as the word is used in "blood brothers".
Karkat, the Knight of Blood, has a reputation among his friends for sympathy.
It was stated that Karkat never fully realized his powers as a Blood player, however the Sufferer did begin to realize his powers as the Seer of Blood. These allowed him to see his alternate reality self living on Beforus, implying that blood powers may have to do with alternate selves

Nothing fully thought out yet.

[felinoel]

Rogue of Void

This deals with stealing, and turning the others' powers against them. While the active Thief will steal things to their own benefit, the passive Rogue will enhance their teammates, or their session with the stolen aspect and is described by Roxy as a "Robin Hood" of their aspect.
Nepeta, as the Rogue of Heart, is presumably able to give or share her 'heart' with others, as she does ridiculous things for the people she loves. Vriska, as the Thief of Light, is able to steal luck from her allies or enemies, and make herself luckier. Meenah, as the Thief of Life, "stole" her friends' lives (by killing them) so they could continue to exist after the scratch.

Void is associated with "the essence of lacking, or nothingness" and "the obfuscation of knowledge, or its outright destruction". It seems to enable players to act without being seen or noticed, as evidenced by Darkleer's apparent ability to hide the Cue Ball from Doc Scratch, Equius's similar talents during Vriska's struggles with the omniscient ballhead, and Roxy's occasional "dark patches" from Calliope's viewpoint. Void players may potentially also have the ability to become invisible in some sense, as it is seen that post-scratch Diamonds Droog becomes invisible with the "Ring of Void".

I figure giving a sneak attack, some darkvision, flash, maybe dispel, maybe darkness, deeper darkness, silence, and may even stuff from the spellthief class...

[felinoel]

Prince of Rage

The Prince deals with destruction. The Prince, is literally simplified to "destroyer of [aspect] (in this case, Rage)" or "one who destroys via [aspect] (also Rage)".
The Prince's powers seem to include phenomenal offensive abilities, using their aspect to completely overwhelm other aspects or players. Eridan, as the Prince of Hope, killed or k.o.'d a lot of his teammates, including Sollux, who up to that point was one of the most powerful fighters in his session (second only to Gamzee, Vriska, and, possibly, Equius). He also destroyed the Matriorb, their hope for the survival of their race. Princes may be able to channel their aspect into its physical form for destructive purposes.
Bards can use their aspect to 'mimic' the powers of other aspects.

The Rage aspect is most likely tied to the emotion of anger. Gamzee, the Bard of Rage, was able to enter a "Berserker" mode, presumably by channeling his anger.

I'm thinking of giving him the ability to randomly copy an ability of someone he came into contact the previous day and at higher levels he can control it, a rage buff that can be used to buff one of the abilities but otherwise works just like the regular buff, bonuses to damage, that fire engulfing thing that ups charisma by that fire psychic class in the second psychic handbook (though this may just be merged with the rage), and... idk?

EDIT:
Ok that ability copying thing is definitely happening, first signs of it at level five, maybe give a percentile die roll to decide on how strong the copied ability can be/is too.

[felinoel]

[SamBurke]

Hm... I'd grab Welknair and drag him over here. King 'o Bloodlines might know what to do here.

[felinoel]

Hm... I'd grab Welknair and drag him over here. King 'o Bloodlines might know what to do here.

Yes, royalty of bloodlines would be good to have input from.

[Welknair]

Hm... I'd grab Welknair and drag him over here. King 'o Bloodlines might know what to do here.

Yes, royalty of bloodlines would be good to have input from.

Have I... BEEN SUMMONED?

My thoughts, in order:
1. OOH Aspects as Bloodlines! Neato!
2. You should probably have had your ideas for the different combos all in the OP, instead of in so many following posts.
3. How much of my Bloodlines have you read? Personally, I'd try and make these into a single Bloodline with varying Lineages for the different Aspects.
4. How do you plan to deal with the differences between Aspects and Classes? Just have bloodlines/lineages for each combo?

[felinoel]

Have I... BEEN SUMMONED?

It would appear as such.

My thoughts, in order:
1. OOH Aspects as Bloodlines! Neato!

Well not just the aspect, but both the aspect and class, the combination of those two is sometimes called the "title" or "mythological role"

2. You should probably have had your ideas for the different combos all in the OP, instead of in so many following posts.

I didn't want to clutter up the OP too much... /:

3. How much of my Bloodlines have you read?

None as of yet.

Personally, I'd try and make these into a single Bloodline with varying Lineages for the different Aspects.

Really? But titles vary so wildly...

4. How do you plan to deal with the differences between Aspects and Classes? Just have bloodlines/lineages for each combo?

Yes.

[Welknair]

For comparison. The two parts of Homestuck characters' titles are usually referred to as Class and Aspect. The problem is that it would take forever if you tried to make a bloodline for each combo. This isn't as much of a problem if it is not your goal.

If you haven't already figured out what a Lineage is, check out my Hero-Blood or whatever it's called, which was the first place I used Lineages. Basically they're sub-lines, that often determine upwards of 2/3rds of the overall features of the Bloodline. Why I thought of using them here was that despite the differences in both ability and attitude of the different combinations, they're all Homestuck still, and thus have some common traits. Off the top of my head, most are brave, curious, inventive.. You could even get into general abilities of Homestuck characters if that's where you wanted to go, with things like Alchemy and Boondollars (EXP).

It is of course all up to you, and it highly depends on how true to the original you want to be. I think the idea of having a single Base Class where you choose a specialty (Lineage-style) which determines things like Rogue/Page/Knight/etc. etc. and then using a Bloodline with Lineages for the Aspects would be the easiest way to represent all combinations.

This is all just my take on it. Feel free to totally ignore it.

[felinoel]

For comparison. The two parts of Homestuck characters' titles are usually referred to as Class and Aspect. The problem is that it would take forever if you tried to make a bloodline for each combo. This isn't as much of a problem if it is not your goal.

It is not, I just want to make bloodlines for the four listed mythological roles.

If you haven't already figured out what a Lineage is, check out my Hero-Blood or whatever it's called, which was the first place I used Lineages. Basically they're sub-lines, that often determine upwards of 2/3rds of the overall features of the Bloodline. Why I thought of using them here was that despite the differences in both ability and attitude of the different combinations, they're all Homestuck still, and thus have some common traits. Off the top of my head, most are brave, curious, inventive.. You could even get into general abilities of Homestuck characters if that's where you wanted to go, with things like Alchemy and Boondollars (EXP).

No, I just want to give DnD abilities and spells to players of specific mythological roles.

It is of course all up to you, and it highly depends on how true to the original you want to be. I think the idea of having a single Base Class where you choose a specialty (Lineage-style) which determines things like Rogue/Page/Knight/etc. etc. and then using a Bloodline with Lineages for the Aspects would be the easiest way to represent all combinations.

This is all just my take on it. Feel free to totally ignore it.

I just want to do the four listed though?

• Sylph of Mind

• Knight of Blood

• Rogue of Void

• Prince of Rage

[sirpercival]

How dare you attempt to avoid scope creep??

[Vauron]

Part of the problem with attempting this is we really never saw Blood, Doom, Hope, or Heart explicitly do things. Karkat never really used Blood, while all we know about Kankri's usage is how he saw what Beforia was like. With Doom, all that was shown was how the spirits of the restless dead bothered Sollux. Eridin merely destroyed hope, and never seemed to use it. With Heart all we have is Cassiopea's comments.
Some of the others are little better. With Life, all I can recall is ghost-godtier Feferi healing WV. All we saw that might have been Rage usage was when he went on a pointless killing spree that amounted to nothing, and I'm iffy on that counting.

Still, a few musing on what the Aspects could grant:
Skills:

Spoiler

Show

Blood: ???
Doom: ???
Heart: Sense Motive or diplomacy
Hope: ???
Life: Heal
Light: ???
Mind: Sense Motive, Gather Information, or Concentration
Rage: Intimidate
Space: Know:Planes
Time: Know:History
Void: Move Silent, Hide
Wind: Tumble

Affinities:

Spoiler

Show

Blood: Same race and family members
Doom: undead or those who had been ressurected
Heart (Sense Motive or diplomacy)
Hope: ???
Life: plants, animals
Light: ???
Mind: entities with the Psionic subtype
Rage: anyone with Rage or Frenzy class features
Space: ???
Time: ???
Void:???
Wind: Entities that can fly through racial or class features

Abilities:

Spoiler

Show

Strength: Rage, Doom
Dexterity: Wind, Void
Constitution: Blood, Life
Intelligence: Mind, Space
Wisdom: Heart, Time
Charisma: Light, Hope
I'm not so sure about all of them, especially Time, Hope, and Doom. Looking back, I kinda feel that Class should decide this part. +Wisdom isn't that useful to a Knight of Heart, for instance.

.

[SamBurke]

Have I... BEEN SUMMONED?

My thoughts, in order:
1. OOH Aspects as Bloodlines! Neato!
2. You should probably have had your ideas for the different combos all in the OP, instead of in so many following posts.
3. How much of my Bloodlines have you read? Personally, I'd try and make these into a single Bloodline with varying Lineages for the different Aspects.
4. How do you plan to deal with the differences between Aspects and Classes? Just have bloodlines/lineages for each combo?

Figured you'd enjoy it.

Questions: how many possibilities are there for classes and such in Homestuck? How would those fit into a traditional fantasy-themed DnD game?

[Vauron]

We've seen 13 Classes and 12 Aspects

Classes: Maid, Seer, Prince, Knight, Page, Heir, Witch, Rogue, Thief, Slyph, Bard, Mage, and Lord

Aspects: Blood, Doom, Life, Light, Heart, Hope, Mind, Rage, Space, Time, Void, and Wind.


So, 12x13 classes means 156 combinations.

Edit: If you think Hussie is serous when he says that he is the Waste of Space, than you can add another 12 possibilties.

[Xallace]

Some of the others are little better. With Life, all I can recall is ghost-godtier Feferi healing WV. All we saw that might have been Rage usage was when he went on a pointless killing spree that amounted to nothing, and I'm iffy on that counting.

Jane's dreamself returned to life after being assassinated, as well. Resurrection seems the modus operandi for Life classes. As for Rage, the biggest clue is that Gamzee "did more damage than even Vriska" and took out the Black Queen.

UU's comments are definitely most helpful in fleshing out the classes, though it's only on a few.

Edit: If you think Hussie is serous when he says that he is the Waste of Space, than you can add another 12 possibilties.

Don't forget about the Nic of Time!

[felinoel]

Part of the problem with attempting this is we really never saw Blood, Doom, Hope, or Heart explicitly do things. Karkat never really used Blood, while all we know about Kankri's usage is how he saw what Beforia was like. With Doom, all that was shown was how the spirits of the restless dead bothered Sollux. Eridin merely destroyed hope, and never seemed to use it. With Heart all we have is Cassiopea's comments.
Some of the others are little better. With Life, all I can recall is ghost-godtier Feferi healing WV. All we saw that might have been Rage usage was when he went on a pointless killing spree that amounted to nothing, and I'm iffy on that counting.

That is why I listed above acceptable descriptions of what the aspects (and classes) mean.

Still, a few musing on what the Aspects could grant:
Skills:

Spoiler

Show

Blood: ???
Doom: ???
Heart: Sense Motive or diplomacy
Hope: ???
Life: Heal
Light: ???
Mind: Sense Motive, Gather Information, or Concentration
Rage: Intimidate
Space: Know:Planes
Time: Know:History
Void: Move Silent, Hide
Wind: Tumble

Affinities:

Spoiler

Show

Blood: Same race and family members
Doom: undead or those who had been ressurected
Heart (Sense Motive or diplomacy)
Hope: ???
Life: plants, animals
Light: ???
Mind: entities with the Psionic subtype
Rage: anyone with Rage or Frenzy class features
Space: ???
Time: ???
Void:???
Wind: Entities that can fly through racial or class features

Abilities:

Spoiler

Show

Strength: Rage, Doom
Dexterity: Wind, Void
Constitution: Blood, Life
Intelligence: Mind, Space
Wisdom: Heart, Time
Charisma: Light, Hope
I'm not so sure about all of them, especially Time, Hope, and Doom. Looking back, I kinda feel that Class should decide this part. +Wisdom isn't that useful to a Knight of Heart, for instance.

.

But... I only need Sylph of Mind, Knight of Blood, Rogue of Void, and Prince of Rage?

Jane's dreamself returned to life after being assassinated, as well. Resurrection seems the modus operandi for Life classes. As for Rage, the biggest clue is that Gamzee "did more damage than even Vriska" and took out the Black Queen.

UU's comments are definitely most helpful in fleshing out the classes, though it's only on a few.



Don't forget about the Nic of Time!

No worries about those, I don't have anyone who is Time, Space, or Life.

[Welknair]

I think the problem here is that you're making this with the intention of your group using it, whereas we are thinking about how other groups would use it. The chances that another group would want to play your four selected combinations and no others is relatively low.

I don't mean to say that there's anything wrong with brewing for your group (We all do it), but here on the boards I believe the norm is trying to brew for a wider audience. Most advice you get will likely be geared towards making your work usable by more than just your group.

[felinoel]

I think the problem here is that you're making this with the intention of your group using it, whereas we are thinking about how other groups would use it. The chances that another group would want to play your four selected combinations and no others is relatively low.

I don't mean to say that there's anything wrong with brewing for your group (We all do it), but here on the boards I believe the norm is trying to brew for a wider audience. Most advice you get will likely be geared towards making your work usable by more than just your group.

But there is a reason why I am not defining it for all options. Each mythological role not only is different based on the class and the aspect, but it is possible that it is also different based on who the person is/was/can become.

Also another reason is this below.

We've seen 13 Classes and 12 Aspects

Classes: Maid, Seer, Prince, Knight, Page, Heir, Witch, Rogue, Thief, Slyph, Bard, Mage, and Lord

Aspects: Blood, Doom, Life, Light, Heart, Hope, Mind, Rage, Space, Time, Void, and Wind.


So, 12x13 classes means 156 combinations.

Edit: If you think Hussie is serous when he says that he is the Waste of Space, than you can add another 12 possibilties.

[Welknair]

This was the reason behind my suggestion that each Aspect and Class be a sub-bloodline and class-specialization. That way you'd only be making a large class and a large bloodline, as opposed to 156 individual bloodlines.

[Xallace]

This was the reason behind my suggestion that each Aspect and Class be a sub-bloodline and class-specialization. That way you'd only be making a large class and a large bloodline, as opposed to 156 individual bloodlines.

This makes the most sense for general usage, if I'm understanding you correctly. Actually making the class a character class and letting their exact features change based on aspect?

Have you played Geist: The Sin-Eaters? The Key / Manifestation system is a very good example of how this kind of thing could work in a table-top game, I think.

Felinoel, what are the characters using other than bloodlines? Are you using regular D&D classes? d20 Modern? Generic classes?

[felinoel]

This was the reason behind my suggestion that each Aspect and Class be a sub-bloodline and class-specialization. That way you'd only be making a large class and a large bloodline, as opposed to 156 individual bloodlines.

That won't work, a Knight of Blood is wildly different than a Knight of Time, and a Thief of Blood is wildly different than a Knight of Blood.

This makes the most sense for general usage, if I'm understanding you correctly. Actually making the class a character class and letting their exact features change based on aspect?

Have you played Geist: The Sin-Eaters? The Key / Manifestation system is a very good example of how this kind of thing could work in a table-top game, I think.

Felinoel, what are the characters using other than bloodlines? Are you using regular D&D classes? d20 Modern? Generic classes?

I told them to build regular characters and that they would get bloodlines for free.
This is supposed to be just a regular bloodline for ease of use. I would treat them as being three levels higher than they were though of course.


All I need are ideas though, I can turn those ideas into bloodlines myself, I just am drawing a blank here and there on abilities.

[felinoel]

Have I... BEEN SUMMONED?

You are summoned yet again, someone has defined all the possible Hero class' aspects with one word, I figure this can also be done for the other thirteen classes and their aspect combinations. Thoughts?

[Vauron]

To make sure I understand, you intend for similar lines to be produced for the Classes, which you could combine to get an idea of what the combination would do. Is this correct?

Something like:

Knight of Time:
I am a Hero of Time, I represent Entropy.
I am the Knight, my aspect is my sword and shield.

or

Prince of Void
I am a Hero of Void, I represent Secrecy.
I am the Prince, I bring to an end my aspect.

[Randomguy]

We've seen 13 Classes and 12 Aspects

Classes: Maid, Seer, Prince, Knight, Page, Heir, Witch, Rogue, Thief, Slyph, Bard, Mage, and Lord

Aspects: Blood, Doom, Life, Light, Heart, Hope, Mind, Rage, Space, Time, Void, and Wind.


So, 12x13 classes means 156 combinations.

Edit: If you think Hussie is serous when he says that he is the Waste of Space, than you can add another 12 possibilties.

There are 13 14 classes, not 12 13. You forgot Muse.

[felinoel]

To make sure I understand, you intend for similar lines to be produced for the Classes, which you could combine to get an idea of what the combination would do. Is this correct?

Something like:

Knight of Time:
I am a Hero of Time, I represent Entropy.
I am the Knight, my aspect is my sword and shield.

or

Prince of Void
I am a Hero of Void, I represent Secrecy.
I am the Prince, I bring to an end my aspect.

But Time isn't always Entropy.

There are 13 14 classes, not 12 13. You forgot Muse.

I think he posted that before the Muse.

[Vauron]

But Time isn't always Entropy.

I think he posted that before the Muse.

The 'conflating Time with Entropy' was done in the image you cited. I simply made use of what already was supplied by you. Was I correct in my estimation that you want lines for the classes detailing how they relate to their aspect?


On that note, I seem to have found an unfinished Homestuck RPG that I downloaded a while ago. It described each of the classes in a manner akin to the Yozi Excellencies from Exalted. Here is the writeup of the Prince from there, maybe it will be useful:

Spoiler

Show

Prince

The prince is a warrior and a destroyer, wielding his aspect as a weapon to bring about an ending.His methods are unsubtle and blatant, unleashing overwhelming force as the solution to his problems. The prince`s methods are indiscriminate, capable of destroying friend and foe alike. He is most in his element in combat, and takes pleasure in demonstrating his superiority.

The prince may always channel his aspect to wreak havoc upon a foe, or unmake their own associated element. However, this peerless destruction comes at a price: The prince may never create anything of lasting value, nor may they ever heal another. Even actions that merely protect others suffer a surcharge of one miracle point. He stands alone, and remains separate and above his fellow players.

Similar write-ups exist for the first twelve classes we were made aware of.


Incidentally, the prior post was after the Muse was mentioned. Not sure why I missed that one.

[AuraTwilight]

Hey Vauron, do you have a link to that Homestuck RPG? The only one I'm familiar with doesn't have a write-up like you quoted.

[Vauron]

Hey Vauron, do you have a link to that Homestuck RPG? The only one I'm familiar with doesn't have a write-up like you quoted.

This is the thread where I found it. The most reason version is in the last post.