Vampirism good for Belkar's soul?

[Malanthyus]

While I realize that he hasn't quite hit the -10 point, and there's still lots of time for fellow party members to stake him before he rises, it doesn't seem that a lot of people are looking at this aspect of his possible transformation.

Point 1: Belkar starts out at the deep end of the alignment pool. He was an unrepentant serial killer who only began changing his behavior in respect to society out of pure survival instinct and the influence of a kooky guy with a cat. There was no where for him to go but up.

Point 2: While Malack might be an undead abomination, he's just about the most reasonable one you could find, and he seems to have had at least some attachment to his prior offspring. Belkar may have had nice parents before, he may not, but I'm willing to bet that Malack will get across to the undead god of war that he does on some level care about him. And honestly, one cat aside, who else has shown that sort of feeling to Belkar in comic, at all?

Point 3: Template stat boosts to intelligence and wisdom. Given Belkar's high level, it's almost a given that he will receive the full vampire template, and not simply become a vampire spawn, and if if Rich goes by the SRD, he will gain at least a minor increase to his intelligence and wisdom, to say nothing of the massive charisma boost he's going to get to being a sexy shoeless god of war.
If nothing else it will cancel out his wisdom penalty, and give him the possibility of a new perspective.

All of these add up to Belkar having a very good chance to empathize on some level with another sentient being. (Yes, yes, Mr. Scruffy is a genius and future master of the planet, but Belkar doesn't know that.)

Sure redemption isn't for everyone, but I think in a way it's kind of nice that Belkar gets an opportunity to realize just what he missed out on, right before he finally faces the consequences for his life.

Edited for errors.

[Turgon9357]

Mayyyyybe.

His stats will indeed go up. Although it is difficult to determine exactly how this will alter Belkar's outlook on life, it sounds reasonable to me to assume that he will get some growth (direction unknown) out of this.

But increasing his cerebral abilities certainly doesn't guarantee that he will move up in the alignment pool. Instead of being a figurative blood-thirsty monster, he is now a literal blood-thirsty monster, which is pretty hard to pull off without staying evil.

Malack has high wisdom, but we shouldn't confuse "being a reasonable individual who displays expected affection" with being in any way benevolent. Or take Tarquin, who is quite intelligent and still an unrepentant tyrant.

So yes, Belkar might look at things differently thanks to his new stats, but I think his being a vampire will keep him pretty well anchored in the deep end. Triple-subversion of expectations not withstanding, of course.

[Tragak]

I was about to point out that in one of the first strips, Belkar got a temporary WIS boost (even though this one will only be half as large, taking him from below average to average instead of above average) that made him not want to be evil anymore, but then it occurred to me:

maybe he'd actually realized how much he needed to fake being a team player, and the healing monologue was for the super-hearing-elf's benefit, until V dispelled it and Belkar forgot to fake it until the LSDream-quest™?

[ReaderAt2046]

Well, i'm not sure it's even possible for Belkar to get any worse than he is right now, so it will probably help.

[Giggling Ghast]

Given that this is how Belkar "drew his last breath ever," I suspect the psychotic little halfling is going to like being a vampire.

Otherwise, the Order could just kill him and then raise him.

[Acanous]

going to laugh if Belkar is later destroyed, and Rich has the Oracle come back to poke fun at us.

[Starbuck_II]

Given that this is how Belkar "drew his last breath ever," I suspect the psychotic little halfling is going to like being a vampire.

Otherwise, the Order could just kill him and then raise him.

Well, other than sunlight weakness and crosses (anyone can hold a cross to make you cower), the benefitd are pretty nice.

Really when Vampire Hunting, getting a fewe mooks to hold cross makes vampires powerless in D&D (but gives up the mooks' actions).

[Belial_the_Leveler]

No, it really doesn't. All it does is have your mooks just sit there while the vampire is pelting them with arrows, or spells, or using a reach weapon.


Alternatively, it simply ignores your mooks and attacks you instead so effectively you just lost the (insignificant) help those mooks would have been.

[Rorrik]

Depends on how you define "good for his soul". On the one hand, I highly doubt this pulls him any further out of the deep end of the alignment pool then Mr. Scruffy did, but on the other hand, under the tutelage of Malack, he could end up with an in with Nergal in the afterlife. I don't figure any deity gave a care about his soul before, now he might just be able to convince one.

He may also end up going lawful, but as far as I'm concerned that's a shame for Belkar the Free.

[scurv]

I'm hoping that this gives belkor a lawful alignment move. Neutral or lawful evil would greatly improve belkors ability to get along in society.

[Koo Rehtorb]

I'd be pretty wary of taking the seemingly decent impression Malack has given off so far to be entirely accurate.

I fully expect it to turn out that Malack is every bit as much of an evil monster as Tarquin is in the future.

[Gnome Alone]

I'd be pretty wary of taking the seemingly decent impression Malack has given off so far to be entirely accurate.

I fully expect it to turn out that Malack is every bit as much of an evil monster as Tarquin is in the future.

I consider Malack pretty much an evil monster already; he helps run Tarquin's rotating dictatorship scheme, doesn't he? He's just, as TV Tropes would tell it, "Affable Evil," much like Tarquin himself.

[Koo Rehtorb]

I consider Malack pretty much an evil monster already; he helps run Tarquin's rotating dictatorship scheme, doesn't he? He's just, as TV Tropes would tell it, "Affable Evil," much like Tarquin himself.

We haven't seen how deeply involved he is in it. You could make an argument that Malack is more in it for the "Bringing lawful stability to a wartorn region" reasons and that he just tolerates the whole LE bit but has no interest in it himself.

I am definitely predicting that Malack is thoroughly LE himself now, but I don't think we've seen enough evidence yet to prove that outside the vampire thing.

[nephilia]

I am definitely predicting that Malack is thoroughly LE himself now, but I don't think we've seen enough evidence yet to prove that outside the vampire thing.

We got plenty of proofs imho :)

1) He followed Tarquin and his plan despite their new leader is his antagonist
2) He blamed Tarquin to play with his child instead of follow the line he has set for their mission
3) He raised mommy which are lawful too (ok that's not a proof but... :P)
4) He refused to broke his promise to Tarquin by not match with Belkar which in that situation is one of their enemy.
4.1) Even more he refused to leave the enemy Belkar gone even if in that case he could have take an advantage (with Belkar killing Nale as it was about to do)
4.2) He refuse to not follow his deity behavior code by "leaving something else kill your enemy instead of yourself"

Malack is totally Lawful evil (just cause it's a vampire or I'd bet he's LN) :)

[The Pilgrim]

Regarding Belkar's soul... if we attend to previous evidence in-comic of characters becoming undead (ie: Xykon), the process seems to transform them into cold-hearted monsters, removing any humane insticts remaining. So I'd not bet that this will improve his soul, specially since he was somewhat on the way of turning a less bitter leaf, and he would no longer be able to do so.

On the other pawn, he has a chance to become a follower of Nergal and, well, I suppose that being the little bitch of an evil God is better than become cannon fodder for the Tanar'ri.

Regarding Malak, as a vampire he is bound to be Evil (Vampires are Always Evil in D&D, and, according to the Giant's commentaries, he is not necessary against inborn alignment for supernatural beings). Beyond the pure game mechanics (that Rich can screw if he wants), we have here basically a follower of an Evil God who uses dark magic, transpires negative energy and feeds on the life force of living beings. So, a strong case for Evil. Regarding the law-chaos axis, his personality traits shown in-comic seem to mark him as the Lawful type of Evil.

[2xMachina]

Remember the owl's wisdom casted on Belkar?

Looks like he nearly has that on permanently now.

[Winter]

The (stat) boost from the Vampirism is turning Belkar into an actual fighting machine. +4 Dex, +6 Str, DR, Fast Healing and the rest... a pretty formidable foe.
He's going to take a hit in regard to HPs due to the lost Con but the rest should make up for it.

[Roland Itiative]

I don 't think we can expect the old Owl's Wisdom joke to reflect on any behaviour change due to stat increase this time around. It was, afterwards, just a joke. At the very least I expect the vampirism not to change much of Belkar's personality. At worst, it will undo every bit of character development, faked or otherwise, he went through.

[Quakes]

The lost con will probably be made up for with the double increase to his HD, though I'm not quite sure how that works. When you are made into an undead, do you re-roll all your HD at the increased level? Or is it only for future HD?

[Mike Havran]

The lost con will probably be made up for with the double increase to his HD, though I'm not quite sure how that works. When you are made into an undead, do you re-roll all your HD at the increased level? Or is it only for future HD?

He rerolls all his d8 dice as d12. On average, he replaces each 4,5hp + Con mod with 6,5hp (+ he loses the mod from his Barbarian levels, but he doesn't seem to have many of them). I'm not sure what his Con score is, but I doubt it will be a big loss for him. He wasn't shown to be especially buff.

[SowZ]

Regarding Belkar's soul... if we attend to previous evidence in-comic of characters becoming undead (ie: Xykon), the process seems to transform them into cold-hearted monsters, removing any humane insticts remaining. So I'd not bet that this will improve his soul, specially since he was somewhat on the way of turning a less bitter leaf, and he would no longer be able to do so.

On the other pawn, he has a chance to become a follower of Nergal and, well, I suppose that being the little bitch of an evil God is better than become cannon fodder for the Tanar'ri.

Regarding Malak, as a vampire he is bound to be Evil (Vampires are Always Evil in D&D, and, according to the Giant's commentaries, he is not necessary against inborn alignment for supernatural beings). Beyond the pure game mechanics (that Rich can screw if he wants), we have here basically a follower of an Evil God who uses dark magic, transpires negative energy and feeds on the life force of living beings. So, a strong case for Evil. Regarding the law-chaos axis, his personality traits shown in-comic seem to mark him as the Lawful type of Evil.

Actually, according to the official D&D rules, always evil alignments don't actually mean 'always.' The books provide examples of always evil creatures that can be good or neutral. It is just so insanely rare that it is hardly worth mentioning. Regardless, I count Malak as evil regardless of what anything else says. He is one of the highest ranked members of a merciless, slave-burning, misdemeanor murdering empire. He's a baaad mamba-jamba.

[Crimsonmantle]

Given that this is how Belkar "drew his last breath ever," I suspect the psychotic little halfling is going to like being a vampire.

And hopefully become another recurring villain. Just what this strip needed more of!

[Giggling Ghast]

And hopefully become another recurring villain. Just what this strip needed more of!

Assuming he has free will, why do you think he would ditch the party?

The Snarl is as much a threat to vampire Belkar as regular Belkar.

[Rakoa]

So the cat is out of the bag. Malack is indeed a vampire. And the way things are going, Belkar may soon join him with that title. But I digress. The point of this thread is involving alignments, alignment being something near and dear to my own heart.

How do you all think that Vampirism will affect Belkar's alignment? And not just alignment, either. I believe that the Vampire template applies helpings of Charisma, Intelligence and Wisdom, so don't limit your discussions to just alignment. What do you think the Belkster's personality will be like? Go free, and discuss!

[factotum]

Since the vampire template requires the creature in question to be Evil, and Belkar already is that, I expect it to make somewhere between none and bupkiss difference in this regard...

[SowZ]

Assuming he has free will, why do you think he would ditch the party?

The Snarl is as much a threat to vampire Belkar as regular Belkar.

Presumably he'll be loyal to Malak.

[Giggling Ghast]

Presumably he'll be loyal to Malak.

Not when Malak's been destroyed.

[Lamech]

Not when Malak's been destroyed.

I think that still has a while to happen. Right now its 2 versus 4 if a fight happens, except the two have vampire. They both have too much turn resistance to turn. And it will just be worse if they get together with the rest of the team.

[Meph]

We shall consider even this: how and how much will work the dominance of Malak as his master. It surely will, being Malak his vampire master and a high level cleric. But even a spell cannot actually push anyone's free will anywhere directly. And, since Belkar is not stupid and have never betrayed his party, why shouldn't he wish to still destroy Malack and join Roy back? Belkar's not the kind of mind that loves to be forced under someone else's will.

He already knows that the OotS "accepts" him as evil, until he plays his role. He might think that they will do it again, and be really amused by the thought of them in the position of having to take care of a vampire. An old team-mate who became a monster fighting for them.

[The Pilgrim]

We shall consider even this: how and how much will work the dominance of Malak as his master. It surely will, being Malak his vampire master and a high level cleric. But even a spell cannot actually push anyone's free will anywhere directly. And, since Belkar is not stupid and have never betrayed his party, why shouldn't he wish to still destroy Malack and join Roy back? Belkar's not the kind of mind that loves to be forced under someone else's will.

Ehm, if what started to happen in the last panel of the last comic ends sucessfuly, then we are no longer talking about Belkar. It's Vampire Spawn Belkar now, and as such he is a mind slave of Malak. It's not a mind control spell, it's not Dominate Person. It's just that he is Malak's bitch now. He doesn't gets the chance of a saving throw to resist commands, neither gets bonus if forced to do anything against his nature.