GITP Monster Competition Chat Thread

[Kyace]

The answer, unless I completely missed it, are that type and subtypes (Dragon, Ooze, Undead, Humanoid and such) don't have class skills like classes, they only have the saves, bab, HD size and skill points: each creature with the type has their own list of class skills (compare the gold dragon with the brass dragon, for example), basically to allow different species of creatures of the same HD type to fill different 'roles' and archetypes.

As for what class skills a typical undead would have, mindless undead, of which there are many, have no class skills nor can they spend skill points. Give homebrewed non-mindless undead race a class list to fit the role you wish to nudge players who play them as. Which skills are class skills is typically much less important to NPCs other than with a small list, typically the rolls opposed by players: bluff/sense motive, spot/hide, listen/move silently; otherwise class skills for NPCs are basically fluff.

[DracoDei]

Actually True Dragons are one of the few examples where a group of similar species ARE given racial skills that they share (although individual races get certain extra skills for free, and I think that spellcraft only counts as a racial skill AFTER the individual dragon is old enough to get sorcerer spells per day).

[DracoDei]

i should have known that my dreams of doing well in my first Monster competition would be dashed by the likes of Fax and DracoDei...Excellent submissions, both of you.

Your's isn't half-bad... of the first 4 or 5 it was actually one of the two I was most worried about. The weakest aspect of it is that it is a little too similar to "The Man Who Wasn't There" and therefore loses "points" for originality. Other than that some of the described behavior isn't very well matched up to the various alignments too explicitly... HAving a bit of a hard time imaging the detailed behavior of a Neutral Good one of them. Will look at them in more depth later (if I have time/energy after getting the bugs out of my own entry!)...

BTW, what specific things did you like about the Lords of Rest? I want to know what I am doing right so I can keep doing it... very hard to get detailed feedback sometimes (although Kyace has sent me some in this case).

[Vrel]

Your's isn't half-bad... of the first 4 or 5 it was actually one of the two I was most worried about. The weakest aspect of it is that it is a little too similar to "The Man Who Wasn't There" and therefore loses "points" for originality. Other than that some of the described behavior isn't very well matched up to the various alignments too explicitly... HAving a bit of a hard time imaging the detailed behavior of a Neutral Good one of them. Will look at them in more depth later (if I have time/energy after getting the bugs out of my own entry!)...

BTW, what specific things did you like about the Lords of Rest? I want to know what I am doing right so I can keep doing it... very hard to get detailed feedback sometimes (although Kyace has sent me some in this case).

I had some questions regarding its alignments, but i will wait til after the contest is over to fix some of the continuity issues. After all, i have already said that it was finished so going back and editing it further based on input here would be cheating. Neutral good Gray Masters would live in abandoned homes or live with Others and exchange room and board for basically... well, cleaning. The ability to animate his environment around him would make him quite useful.

His similarity to "The Man who Wasnt there" Was accidental, though i can definitely see many similarities now. Some of it is from my personal taste and the fact that i wanted to create a creature i could put my players against, and the only thing that presents any challenge for them is incorporeal beings, really. The old man part is really a matter of preference for me. I like using Aged characters, and Grey/Gray Master play on words was kind of fun. but enough about me, lets talk about you!

The Lord of rest strikes me as a VERY VERY VERY well thought out Monster. I enjoyed reading the different stat blocks and seeing how much care was taken to make sure their stats, CR, and fleshy bits were as they should be. It just gives off the impression that you are extremely proud of your creation and it shows. The Anti-Vermin Aura was one of my favorite features, as i am a bit of an arachiphobe, and the sheet grappling is just about one of the most innovative things ive seen in a while. Also, the fluff about the gold dragons was very pleasant to read. All of the text flowed well. Much better than i could do. And i dont get the sense for even just a split second that any of it was rushed, which i do from many other submissions (especially my own).

Only thing i would like to know is if they can ever gain a move speed.

[DracoDei]

I had some questions regarding its alignments, but i will wait til after the contest is over to fix some of the continuity issues. After all, i have already said that it was finished so going back and editing it further based on input here would be cheating.

I rather doubt any of the other contestants would agree with that analysis...

Neutral good Gray Masters would live in abandoned homes or live with Others and exchange room and board for basically... well, cleaning. The ability to animate his environment around him would make him quite useful.

And of course security...

His similarity to "The Man who Wasnt there" Was accidental, though i can definitely see many similarities now. Some of it is from my personal taste and the fact that i wanted to create a creature i could put my players against, and the only thing that presents any challenge for them is incorporeal beings, really. The old man part is really a matter of preference for me. I like using Aged characters, and Grey/Gray Master play on words was kind of fun.

Enlighten me, because the only difference I know between "grey" and "gray" is the spelling... like "color" and "colour"...

The Lord of rest strikes me as a VERY VERY VERY well thought out Monster. I enjoyed reading the different stat blocks and seeing how much care was taken to make sure their stats, CR, and fleshy bits were as they should be.

The CRs are mostly missing and those that are there are pretty rough guesses (which is true of most of the monsters on these boards I think). Also, what are "Fleshy bits"? In any case, yeah, getting the stats all to follow the correct numerical relationships is something that comes SOMEWHAT naturally to me (but I still make mistakes).

... and the sheet grappling is just about one of the most innovative things ive seen in a while.

Err... that is BASICALLY taken verbatim from some of the optional features of Animated objects... So while I can and will take credit for remembering that aspect of that creature and taking the care to go and get the information and edit it in, "innovative" is not TECHNICALLY applicable at all...

Also, the fluff about the gold dragons was very pleasant to read. All of the text flowed well. Much better than i could do. And i dont get the sense for even just a split second that any of it was rushed, which i do from many other submissions (especially my own).

Well, at this point the history just sorta trails off a little I think...

Only thing i would like to know is if they can ever gain a move speed.

Magic items that allow flight, and casting Animate Objects on themselves or getting someone to cast it on them are their best routes to that as I currently have it standing... I may give Animate Objects increased size affect-able and/or increased duration when used solely for that purpose...

[Vrel]

as far as Gray vs. Grey goes... in most of the literature ive studied (yea right.. i read books, i dont study them) "grey" is used to depict color or a visual aspect of an item whereas "Gray" is used to show aging. Its more of a sense of feeling... Aged, ancient, hoary, Dreary; those sorts of words relate.

Grey i use for the color, Gray i use for age. maybe its just personal preference, i dont know.

As for going back and making changes, i feel like its almost cheating everyone else... i dont know. i suppose if it is alright with everyone, i have some changes i wanted to make to it, but was waiting til the contest was over.

Edit: Holy Crap..i just re-read the man who wasnt there. I didnt realize he turned people into furniture too. Sunuva....I wonder if i did that subconsciously because i think Tribbles ideas are all so cool, or if it was an accident. Either way, i humbly withdraw my submission from the contest. It is not an original idea, and as such, does not belong in this contest.

[BisectedBrioche]

IIRC whether or not you use grey or gray is down to your prefered form of English.

Tom-AY-to/Tom-AH-to and all that.

[DracoDei]

Edit: Holy Crap..i just re-read the man who wasnt there. I didnt realize he turned people into furniture too. Sunuva....I wonder if i did that subconsciously because i think Tribbles ideas are all so cool, or if it was an accident. Either way, i humbly withdraw my submission from the contest. It is not an original idea, and as such, does not belong in this contest.

In your defense yours does so for a very short duration if I remember correctly, and "The Man Who Wasn't There" does so permanently.

[Vrel]

eh, they are different enough, but not different enough for me to feel ok letting them be voted for. hopefully next months contest is something i can really get into.

[DracoDei]

Version 2.0 of the Lords of Rest is now up, mostly fleshing out both the crunch and the fluff of the adventuring example characters (although the second one doesn't adventure per se...) need a better name for Kardregedium MAYBE, and perhaps for the entry as a whole. Still probably going to add more history/personality and a few more special abilities (temperature regulation and sound dampening come to mind). Could use someone to walk me through how to do a really good Lore section...

Kyace commented on the "back up weapons" for Kardregedium (the Colossal one)... I think they make sense as prudent precautionary measures for a dragon couple would for whom getting their lair attacked by Balor's and/or Pit Fiends with class levels is perfectly plausible... Evil Lycanthropes* with enough class levels to be a problem are probably slightly less likely but still possible.

Another issue about Kardregedium is the selection of a sling as its ranged weapon as opposed to javelins... the sling has better range increment and much better maximum range, but at those levels is that even an issue, even assuming that its ability to fly is removed? How big WOULD the bedroom of two CR 27 Gold dragons be? Or should I give it both Javelins and the sling?


*Personal rant: Dash it all, it is THERIanthropes for the broad term... LYCanthrope means WOLF-man... THERIanthrope means ANIMAL-man... why did WotC have to pander to the slightly less educated?

[DracoDei]

Another major update to Lords of Rest up (Mostly incorporating SOME (but not all) aspects from the Living Construct subtype of Warforged). Also added a sound dampening effect.

[Kyace]

I wasn't going to bring it up, but how exactly are Lords of Rest welding slings and swords? The fluff implies that they don't have hands but crunchwise, they seem to have fully functioning hands and arms.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Btw, I'm beginning to go through all the entries, you should be getting a message within the next couple days.

[DracoDei]

I wasn't going to bring it up, but how exactly are Lords of Rest welding slings and swords? The fluff implies that they don't have hands but crunchwise, they seem to have fully functioning hands and arms.

Sheet corners, wrapped around more than once if really necessary. To me the real question isn't "Why do they count as having hands?" it is "Why do they only count as having TWO hands?"... Anyway, I will try to work in some clarifying language on that point. (two hand equivalents, no more, no less... except maybe with feats if the GM is feeling REALLY insane).

[Fax Celestis]

I just added Familiar rules for the Dust Bunnies.

[DracoDei]

Fax Celestis: You may have missed this when I AIMed you, but I was wondering if you would mind my putting in a sentence or two about Dust Bunnies being the favored familiars among arcanist Lords of Rest.

[Fax Celestis]

Fax Celestis: You may have missed this when I AIMed you, but I was wondering if you would mind my putting in a sentence or two about Dust Bunnies being the favored familiars among arcanist Lords of Rest.

That'd be something that'd be within the Lords of Rest text, not the Dust Bunny text.

[DracoDei]

Yes, yes it would. Still thought I should ask your permission before doing so.

[Fax Celestis]

Yes, yes it would. Still thought I should ask your permission before doing so.

Oh! Yeah, go right ahead.

[DracoDei]

Have continued to add stuff to my entry including rules for disassembling them, background for "Sun's Setting", not to mention the "Semi-Living Construct" subtype. The history now at least 'feels' complete, so I can leave it where it is (not that I NECESSARILY will, but I might).

Bumped up a few of my CRs when I realized they have 2 Save-or-Lose/Suck spells per day (Deep Slumber), even if they are touch range and single target in this case.

[Lord Tataraus]

Thanks to Vorpal Tribble, I've fixed up the Hearth Protector. Though he did say that the Positive Body thing is like the Deathless. I have heard of the Deathless but don't know much about them, is all they do pretty much what Positive Body does?

Also, critiques would be nice, thanks.

[DracoDei]

I am not going to look it up (partially laziness and partially copyright issues), suffice to say that you can just change the type from undead to deathless, change the "Positive Body" trait to Turn Resistance +8, and say that falling changes the type to undead, negates the Turn Resistance, and loses the Face of Guilt ability.
Trust me, making them Deathless won't do the concept any harm...

To give an idea (and I am not looking at the book and it has been a while) just think "anti-undead" in every respect:
-Turned/Destroyed by Evil clerics
-?Rebuked?/Commanded by Good Clerics
-Burned by Unholy water
-the healing/inflicting swap you already instituted.

[DracoDei]

Have now grabbed a picture off the web for my entry. It is in a spoiler at the top since it is a bit big.

[littlechicory]

Thanks to Vorpal Tribble, I've fixed up the Hearth Protector. Though he did say that the Positive Body thing is like the Deathless. I have heard of the Deathless but don't know much about them, is all they do pretty much what Positive Body does?

Also, critiques would be nice, thanks.

The Deathless creature type is basically a positive-energy undead. They're found in the Eberron Campaign setting... and, I think, in the MM3, but I seem to have misplaced my MM3.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Here you go: Deathless Type

And the contest ends at midnight tonight (EST), so a little under 14 from now.

[Fax Celestis]

Oh! I added a picture. Is adorable.

[DracoDei]

Yes, yes it is... although I would think of them being less spherical, more rugby ball shaped, grayer, and a bit see-through... but what do you want for randomly located web-art? (Which I ASSUME it is)... I had it easier because mine isn't so obscure to find... although they are pretty plain for a Lord of Rest... they usually would have a lot more scroll-work than that (hey, what else are they going to do all day but take 20 on craft checks and chat telepathically?).


Edit: Remembered at the last minute (not literally) to put in rules about repairing a Lord of Rest... and before that I ran it through my grammar checker.

[BisectedBrioche]

My Pure Thought's up, and more importantly I've finally thought of a creature I can draw (well...produce) a picture of.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Heyas Bisected, gotta do an actual creature, not a template unfortunately.

[BisectedBrioche]

Dammit, just a moment, I'll de-templatify it...or something.

Edit: Done, I might work on an animated version of its image in the morning (or rather a few more hours into this morning).