LGBTAitP #31: Cuddles Are On Back Order. Have Some Snuggles!

[SiuiS]

I thought Thor/Loki was the biggest ship :P

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You could consider it a bitterly jealous, snide comment instead if you'd like ;3

O.O The internet is weird... Thor and Loki are half brothers.

Eh. Are they really? I mean, Thor was between Odin and I think Angrboda, and Loki was from elsewhere. And in the continuity provided, teu are step siblings, which is perfect for sexy times.

[Mutant Sheep]

Eh. Are they really? I mean, Thor was between Odin and I think Angrboda, and Loki was from elsewhere. And in the continuity provided, teu are step siblings, which is perfect for sexy times.

I would hesitate to call that "perfect".

[Karen Lynn]

I would hesitate to call that "perfect".

Don't forget the dysfunctional relationship, which is perfect for hate fueled hanky-panky. ^-^

[Thajocoth]

Loki seems the sort to be more into horses to me...

[Asta Kask]

They do have very impressive equipment.

[The Succubus]

They do have very impressive equipment.

Bridles, saddles and such?

[Lix Lorn]

Loki seems the sort to be more into horses to me...

Not by choice...

[Asta Kask]

Bridles, saddles and such?

Yes. Exactly. No euphemisms were harmed in the writing of my post.

[Lix Lorn]

Yes. Exactly. No euphemisms were harmed in the writing of my post.

Indeed, they were put to death painlessly. :3

[Psycho Yuffie]

I thought Thor/Loki was the biggest ship :P

It's not completely gay. After all, Loki was actually female for most of the Thor lore. He only recently returned to being male.

[noparlpf]

I would hesitate to call that "perfect".

I wouldn't even hesitate, I'd go straight to saying "not perfect". But then, gods don't really care what they sleep with, and god-incest doesn't seem to give an increased chance of recessive genes being expressed, so maybe it doesn't matter.

[Asta Kask]

And Loki and Thor are both male so there would not be any kids anyway. Unless Loki changes form again - but I don't think Marvel is ready for that yet.

Edit: I wonder if Loki's loose attachment to gender makes hir the patron deity of trans* people?

[Coidzor]

I would hesitate to call that "perfect".

The more taboos you violate the better with shipping, why do you think people hate heteronormative ships so much? They hardly ever violate any taboos since most of the taboos they'd violate don't exist, at least, can't be admitted to exist within western culture by western culture.

Or at least it makes it more entertaining to watch shipping in action.

This is so adorable.

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I have only one objection here and that's the one where Peter Parker is not allowed to have a dad, much less two.

[noparlpf]

And Loki and Thor are both male so there would not be any kids anyway. Unless Loki changes form again - but I don't think Marvel is ready for that yet.

Well yeah, but the study I read that suggested there's some mechanism to prevent organisms from inbreeding (they looked at groups of unrelated children raised together from a young age, and it seems like at least in higher mammals, they're somewhat less likely to mate with partners with which they grew up) didn't bother looking at homosexuality. So I'm just assuming that homosexual incest is similarly somewhat less likely.

[Coidzor]

Well yeah, but the study I read that suggested there's some mechanism to prevent organisms from inbreeding (they looked at groups of unrelated children raised together from a young age, and it seems like at least in higher mammals, they're somewhat less likely to mate with partners with which they grew up) didn't bother looking at homosexuality. So I'm just assuming that homosexual incest is similarly somewhat less likely.

The Westermarck effect, IIRC, or is that just limited to humans?

And, yeah, I recall it being a bone of contention that no one had yet studied it in non-heterosexuals specifically or even recorded what sexuality people professed.

[noparlpf]

The Westermarck effect, IIRC, or is that just limited to humans?

And, yeah, I recall it being a bone of contention that no one had yet studied it in non-heterosexuals specifically or even recorded what sexuality people professed.

Probably, but it's been a while since I read whatever I read.
It would be neat if somebody could get a good study together to test it again.

[Asta Kask]

You'll need a sample of people where both siblings are homosexual. Might be difficult to get enough people.

[Karen Lynn]

They just need to be raised together from a young age, to create the idea of being related.

[noparlpf]

You'll need a sample of people where both siblings are homosexual. Might be difficult to get enough people.

*skimming Wiki*
People have also looked at things like the Israeli kibbutzim for the Westermarck effect, though. I know I've heard of that before. So having the children be siblings isn't necessarily necessary, just raising them together from early childhood.

[Asta Kask]

There's probably even fewer of them...

[pffh]

*skimming Wiki*
People have also looked at things like the Israeli kibbutzim for the Westermarck effect, though. I know I've heard of that before. So having the children be siblings isn't necessarily necessary, just raising them together from early childhood.

Yeah I've read about this too. A related thingy is that while people that are raised together aren't attracted to each other, siblings (and parents/children) that have no contact until adulthood are more likely to be attracted to each other than not.

[Lissou]

Definitely sounds like the Westermarck effect. There is a reason why across the world, generally incest laws have nothing to do with genes. Adopted siblings, same-sex unions, it's all considered the same. So it's not about offspring, it's about something else, that's a gut feeling people have that it's "icky". And that's due to the Westermarck effect.

I'm not aware of it being common in other species. I certainly have seen a lot of incest between mammals. I remember witnessing a cat who went, in the same breath, from drinking his mother's milk to having sex with her. I thought it was weird because shouldn't a cat old enough to mate not be breastfeeding anymore? But either way he definitely was her son from an earlier litter (she had had a new one, which is why she was breastfeeding).

As far as gods are concerned though, this doesn't really apply. Most mythologies have incest in them, among other things. I'm pretty sure Loki has several children who aren't even humanoid.

[KenderWizard]

Yeah, I kind of file Thorki as "Gods will be gods!" and that gods care not for sex and gender and adopted-siblinghood and all that jazz.

I basically think it's all good provided
(a) all consenting adults/gods
(b) no incestuous pregnancy

[Thajocoth]

The Westermarck effect is a tendency as well, not an absolute. On top of that, for whatever reason, there's another tendency that "taboo" things are more attractive, and this is one of the easiest taboos. (I think this attraction to taboo explains many of the pairings in mythology, such as the creation of Sleipnir, the 8-legged horse Loki gave birth to.)

Forbidden love, perhaps?

This might help explain why siblings raised apart have a higher level of attraction. They lack the Westermarck effect, as they were not raised together, but still have the taboo.

[noparlpf]

Yeah, I kind of file Thorki as "Gods will be gods!" and that gods care not for sex and gender and adopted-siblinghood and all that jazz.

I basically think it's all good provided
(a) all consenting adults/gods
(b) no incestuous pregnancy

I think once genome sequencing is cheaper and we know more about genetics, incestuous pregnancy is fine as long as they're checked for harmful recessive genes first.
But just working with modern technology...I mean, people with, for example, Huntington's Disease, which is autosomal dominant, meaning a (edit: my bad, I shouldn't be messing up two days before a Genetics exam) 50% chance of transmission, are allowed to breed. So why shouldn't close relatives, who may or may not actually transmit harmful recessive genes to the next generation?
That reasoning is totally backwards though, the logical answer would be "don't let people with [whatever genes] breed", but then you end up with things like "well why should the government get to say that, eugenics is bad because who's to say what's actually best?" Anyway it's complicated.


Edit: Oh yeah. When sex comes up with my counselor it's a little awkward, because she's confused by asexuality in general and especially by various forms of grey asexuality. So a conversation yesterday goes something like this:
"Well did you have sex with her?" (about some awkward situation I mentioned)
"No, why would I?"
"Uh, most guys your age would. Why not? Was she not attractive, or something?"
"Eh, so-so." (Mind you, that's what I say about most people.) "But even if somebody's kind of attractive, why would you want to just have sex with them?"
*sighs* "Women wish more guys were like that."

But it's not like you can praise somebody for something that isn't really a choice...

[Akowrules]

Update on Current Situation below. Read if you want. Advice would be nice, and helpful, since I've no idea where to turn for help.

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Update on Current Situation: The issue with my friend, the one I spoke of earlier, has proven to gotten worse. The two people that tricked him did it not for fun, but for a reason. My friend is romantic bi (which, to those who don't know, means that he thinks of a romantic relationship with a girl, but really likes guys in that kind of way. I'm probably not explaining it the best, but I'm not exactly in the most stable mood at this point), and his family does not know it. The pair did this so he would be outed to his family. However, he told his parents last night, and, to say the least, it did not go well. Basically, to sum up what his a** hole of a father said to him, was that he was a freak of nature. Unnatural. That he wasn't even a person. Needless to say, I'm in a depressed, angry state right now. Hell, I've already considered just getting in a car and driving down all the way from Illinois to Texas to just shout and scream at one of the three people that caused this misery upon my friend. Problem is, I don't know who's hurt him the worst. The boy who is reporting. The b**** that orchestrated the whole trickery. Or his own father. Sorry for dragging this out for so long. I just need to get this out. There's not many places I can go to talk about what I'm feeling anymore.

On a small side note, today was a snow day, and tomorrow might be one too. That's probably the best thing that's going to happen to me this week, or so it seems.

[noparlpf]

Update on Current Situation below. Read if you want. Advice would be nice, and helpful, since I've no idea where to turn for help.

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Update on Current Situation: The issue with my friend, the one I spoke of earlier, has proven to gotten worse. The two people that tricked him did it not for fun, but for a reason. My friend is romantic bi (which, to those who don't know, means that he thinks of a romantic relationship with a girl, but really likes guys in that kind of way. I'm probably not explaining it the best, but I'm not exactly in the most stable mood at this point), and his family does not know it. The pair did this so he would be outed to his family. However, he told his parents last night, and, to say the least, it did not go well. Basically, to sum up what his a** hole of a father said to him, was that he was a freak of nature. Unnatural. That he wasn't even a person. Needless to say, I'm in a depressed, angry state right now. Hell, I've already considered just getting in a car and driving down all the way from Illinois to Texas to just shout and scream at one of the three people that caused this misery upon my friend. Problem is, I don't know who's hurt him the worst. The boy who is reporting. The b**** that orchestrated the whole trickery. Or his own father. Sorry for dragging this out for so long. I just need to get this out. There's not many places I can go to talk about what I'm feeling anymore.

On a small side note, today was a snow day, and tomorrow might be one too. That's probably the best thing that's going to happen to me this week, or so it seems.

Geez, that's really crappy. *hugs* is about all I can offer.

[Rain Dragon]

Wow, Akowrules buddy...

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I can't honestly blame you for being depressed and angry, but I'd recommend meditating a bit. It sounds like however this swings it's going to take some time and it's going to be mostly other people doing a bunch of stuff. It might be the start of a nasty few days or just something very bad that happened now and tomorrow will be better. Either way, the most help you can give to your friend will have to be while you're calm and thinking well.

I don't like hearing stories like this, and it should never happen, but I really hope you all endure and it turns out for the best. Just try not to get sucked into a whirlpool of negativity. If you want to talk to me, I'm Daegorac on steam or PM me for Skype.

-Giovanni

[Karen Lynn]

Update on Current Situation below. Read if you want. Advice would be nice, and helpful, since I've no idea where to turn for help.

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Update on Current Situation: The issue with my friend, the one I spoke of earlier, has proven to gotten worse. The two people that tricked him did it not for fun, but for a reason. My friend is romantic bi (which, to those who don't know, means that he thinks of a romantic relationship with a girl, but really likes guys in that kind of way. I'm probably not explaining it the best, but I'm not exactly in the most stable mood at this point), and his family does not know it. The pair did this so he would be outed to his family. However, he told his parents last night, and, to say the least, it did not go well. Basically, to sum up what his a** hole of a father said to him, was that he was a freak of nature. Unnatural. That he wasn't even a person. Needless to say, I'm in a depressed, angry state right now. Hell, I've already considered just getting in a car and driving down all the way from Illinois to Texas to just shout and scream at one of the three people that caused this misery upon my friend. Problem is, I don't know who's hurt him the worst. The boy who is reporting. The b**** that orchestrated the whole trickery. Or his own father. Sorry for dragging this out for so long. I just need to get this out. There's not many places I can go to talk about what I'm feeling anymore.

On a small side note, today was a snow day, and tomorrow might be one too. That's probably the best thing that's going to happen to me this week, or so it seems.

Mega lame... :(

If you need help getting there, I have no problem driving! :3 I just hope you don't need to stop for potty breaks every two hours. :P

[Coidzor]

The Westermarck effect is a tendency as well, not an absolute. On top of that, for whatever reason, there's another tendency that "taboo" things are more attractive, and this is one of the easiest taboos. (I think this attraction to taboo explains many of the pairings in mythology, such as the creation of Sleipnir, the 8-legged horse Loki gave birth to.)

What do you mean by "easiest taboo?"

Akowrules: I'm going to have to echo Hatter here, in that you're probably best served centering yourself as much as possible, because being there for your friend as much as you are able and as clear-headed as you are able is going to be better for him as well as for the both of you.

I wish I could give better advice than that, but there's very little that can be done during the heat of anger and rejection other than to help the person come away from it.

noparlpf: Especially when her saying that in response to you just makes her seem like she's coming at you sideways. oy.

Lissou: Avoiding situations like that is one of the many positives to spaying and neutering your pets, but, yes, there's several odd things going on in that scenario, starting with the cat not being weaned properly.