OOTS #883 - The Discussion Thread

[Grey Watcher]

I wonder just how many Channels Sabine has to flick through?

666 seems an appropriate number.

[The Pilgrim]

The Linear Guild are still evil opposites. its just that Nale doesn't realize that "four evil spell casters" count as evil opposites to "four good three good and one evil dashing fighters"

Corrected that for you.

[Shred-Bot]

Nale appears to be digging his own grave by being all haughty towards Zz'dtri like that. Way to potentially alienate the last person in the group who might have residual loyalty towards you, right after we saw your father treating him kindly and curing his deafness. I can't see this backfiring in any way, no sir.

PLUS Tarquin was probably sucking up to him pretty aggressively back when he was sending fruit baskets to the Drow.

It's hard to tell what Z is really thinking, though, given the lack of speech bubbles. Ah well.

[137beth]

So Nale's assessment of the fiend's effectiveness was completely backwards...

[NZNinja]

1. Wow, I thought Durkon would have to re-dedicate himself to an evil god or cause before he got his spells back! I guess in this world, only Paladins have to suck on insanely harsh code rules.

Perhaps Durkon can't dedicate himself to a new god while he is a mind slave of Malack - how can someone without free will choose a new god? As far as I can tell, the implications of changing deity in D&D is entirely campaign dependent - so it's all up to The Giant, I guess.

I do have a sneaking suspicion that Tarquin is well aware that Xykon is on his way, and he and Kilkil will be waiting for his arrival. Once the LG has weakened or defeated the OotS, Tarquin will sweep in with Team Evil for the double-cross to take the gate, and Malack will attack Nale as he is no longer required for "business". I could see this back-firing on Malack though, especially if Sabine returns mid-fight, or the near-defeated Order trips a self-destruct mechanism...
As a bonus though, if Malack is killed, Durkon should become free-willed again; although there have been plenty of indications that Malack would free Durkon willingly - eventually, at least.

[Snails]

It is quite likely Haerta never cast the spell.

It makes for an excellent threat, but if actually employed every surviving powerful person in the universe will work overtime to snuff you. If I am, say, Tarquin running a perfectly respectable tyranny, the risk that I might be suddenly dead because of a distant relationship to someone on the other side of the globe is frightening. Yes, Tarquin would be happy to help a random Arch-Paladin hunt down Haerta -- he would have no other choice.

[Another_Poet]

When Nale said "Four spellcasters" I was like: "Oh crap, maybe Kilkil's actually some kind of crazy powerful spellcaster and we didn't know it."

And then I realized "Oh wait, he's counting his own limpdick, multiclassed enchantment-based sorcerer powers."

You have made my day.

[baerdith]

Wait, how could Durkula summon a fiend?? And what exactly was that? A Xill? That's a 6 level summon.....

[Silverionmox]

Who said the opposites theme is over? Spellcaster-only party against party with no spellcasters.

And as we all know, Elan doesn't count

IMO Quarr is going to taunt V into smoking Z - which will succeed, finally, if necessary with a little help from his friends (downstairs).

That leaves Malack (with Durkon) and Nale. We all know what's going to happen when you leave these two alone in a room.

When Malack returns without Nale, it will likely strain a long-standing alliance, with the rest of the old party right there to pick sides and settle outstanding debts... and potentially turn their three empires against each other.

Unnecessary conflict all over, the gentlemen downstairs have truly made a good investment.

[Another_Poet]

Perhaps Durkon can't dedicate himself to a new god while he is a mind slave of Malack - how can someone without free will choose a new god?

I suspect evil gods will accept non-consenting recruits who are forced to make the pact by their mind-controlling overlords. Like a press gang, but more transparent.

In any case Rich has made pretty clear (as do the rules) that Durkula did not need to choose a new deity yet.

[stsasser]

It is quite likely Haerta never cast the spell.

It makes for an excellent threat, but if actually employed every surviving powerful person in the universe will work overtime to snuff you. If I am, say, Tarquin running a perfectly respectable tyranny, the risk that I might be suddenly dead because of a distant relationship to someone on the other side of the globe is frightening. Yes, Tarquin would be happy to help a random Arch-Paladin hunt down Haerta -- he would have no other choice.

Well, Haerta is dead, so maybe she used Familiacide and they did snuff her.

[baerdith]

It's HELL... it's all Reality TV all the time... 1,000 Channels of Jersey Shore

Excuse while I go cry in the corner! I will have nightmares forever....

[hamishspence]

Wait, how could Durkula summon a fiend?? And what exactly was that? A Xill? That's a 6 level summon.....

I thought it was a piscoloth:

Spoiler

Show

the one with the pincers.

EDIT:

Durkon's looks like a hamatala

Spoiler

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spiky grey-green one with tail, on far left.

[NZNinja]

I suspect evil gods will accept non-consenting recruits who are forced to make the pact by their mind-controlling overlords. Like a press gang, but more transparent.

In any case Rich has made pretty clear (as do the rules) that Durkula did not need to choose a new deity yet.

Tell you what, you read the vampire template entry, particularly the part where it explicitly says that vampire clerics can still cast spells just with different domain access, and you tell me where it says anything about gods or temporary loss of access there. It doesn't. Vampire clerics do not need to worship a god to cast spells, because NO cleric needs a god to cast spells. The rules specifically allow for "non-theistic" clerics, and explains exactly what the effects of turning into a vampire has on a cleric: Rebuke instead of Turn, different domains. Period..

I just saw The Giant's post on the topic - getting distracted mid-post FTL - although, as I said:

As far as I can tell, the implications of changing deity in D&D is entirely campaign dependent - so it's all up to The Giant, I guess.

[Vinsfeld]

You know, you're right. I have gone too far this time. I'll stop making new strips now. Everyone, go home. The comic is over. My bad, I went too far.

HA! Epic burn.

I like you even more, Giant.

[VanaGalen]

says...



Four?

I count (as does Tarquin) "two vampire clerics and a [dark elf] wizard." Who is the fourth?

Unless Kilkil can cast, but he's staying back with Tarquin.

Yeah, I'm also puzzled. Either:
- Nale is so dumb he can't count to 3
- he includes himself in that number (he has some sorcerer levels, but it's a stretch imo)
- he might be speaking of Quarr (Nale doesn't know what happened to him and Quarr isn't really a caster)
- he's going to pull Leeky, Pompey or Hilgya out of his sleeve

[Stormlock]

It is quite likely Haerta never cast the spell.

It makes for an excellent threat, but if actually employed every surviving powerful person in the universe will work overtime to snuff you. If I am, say, Tarquin running a perfectly respectable tyranny, the risk that I might be suddenly dead because of a distant relationship to someone on the other side of the globe is frightening. Yes, Tarquin would be happy to help a random Arch-Paladin hunt down Haerta -- he would have no other choice.

The spell as described never made sense anyways. If you cast that spell on a human on earth it would wipe out all human life on the planet (possibly all life period, including plants, and almost certainly all mammals at the very least.) Unless the OOTSverse is like 300 years old.

[baerdith]

Those two summoned monsters look like a barbed devil, and a piscoloth (a lobsterlike yugoloth).

If that is a Barbed devil, that puts Durkula at level 17.....

[StreamOfTheSky]

If Haerta did use the spell, I think it'd be funny if it was what killed her due to unknown familial link - 6 degrees of separation and all that. Still, I'd rather that she never used it, I don't see how she could possibly be so unknown if she had, unless she wiped out nearly all of civilization...

It's interesting, Malack hates Nale and now Tarquin is not only expecting him to work under him, but won't be personally there. Thog and now Sabine are both gone, only the repugnant little bastard is left here of the original linear guild. *Crosses fingers* maybe just maybe this will be where he finally dies! I've wanted to see nale die and cease wasting page space for so long now! Problem was, he's usually around awesome characters you don't want to see die (like Thog or Tarquin), but now he can die...maybe even take that lame one-off Dridz't spoof with him to the grave (now I'm really getting my hopes up!).

I like Malack and don't want him to (re-)die, but...I figure here Nale can die by his hand, so it's all cool.

[hamishspence]

If that is a Barbed devil, that puts Durkula at level 17.....

Planar Ally works on creatures of up to 12 HD:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planarAlly.htm

Barbed devils have 12 HD.

[Heksefatter]

This is extremely dark. But I lolled through it anyway.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yeah, I'm also puzzled. Either:
- Nale is so dumb he can't count to 3
- he includes himself in that number (he has some sorcerer levels, but it's a stretch imo)
- he might be speaking of Quarr (Nale doesn't know what happened to him and Quarr isn't really a caster)
- he's going to pull Leeky, Pompey or Hilgya out of his sleeve

He's clearly counting himself as a caster. The stupidity and misplaced confidence of doing so fits perfectly with his outlook.

[Another_Poet]

The spell as described never made sense anyways. If you cast that spell on a human on earth it would wipe out all human life on the planet (possibly all life period, including plants, and almost certainly all mammals at the very least.)

I assume it works up to some fraction of ancestry, i.e. back a certain number of generations. If you are 1/16th x, for example, or 1/64th.

To phrase it another way, it extends out to a certain level of cousins.

[Jay R]

If V *is* history's worst mass murderer, ...

Don't confuse trash-talk with documented fact.

The Linear Guild are still evil opposites. its just that Nale doesn't realize that "four evil three evil and one good but dominated spell casters" count as evil opposites to "four good three good and one evil but pretending dashing fighters"

Corrected that for you.

Corrected that for you.

[The Second]

666 seems an appropriate number.

Channel 1 through 665, all infomercials, all the time! Channel 666, Hell's Idol marathon, every day, dawn to dusk.

Also, silly Nale, believing you can actually control Malack. I would not be surprised if Malack 'accidentally' targeted Nale with a few area effect spells.

Malack: "Oops, I made the radius just a smidge too large on that last one... My bad."

[Tsriel]

You know, you're right. I have gone too far this time. I'll stop making new strips now. Everyone, go home. The comic is over. My bad, I went too far.



Tell you what, you read the vampire template entry, particularly the part where it explicitly says that vampire clerics can still cast spells just with different domain access, and you tell me where it says anything about gods or temporary loss of access there. It doesn't. Vampire clerics do not need to worship a god to cast spells, because NO cleric needs a god to cast spells. The rules specifically allow for "non-theistic" clerics, and explains exactly what the effects of turning into a vampire has on a cleric: Rebuke instead of Turn, different domains. Period.

The only thing worse than the usual irrelevant rules pedantry is incorrect irrelevant rules pedantry.

That was a Flamestrike of Truthiness.

[Shadowknight12]

Oh, Blackwing. Gotta love how much heart you put into it.

I really, really like that V's sobbing. I am genuinely glad that after Soon's speech to Miko, we're seeing the beginnings of some actual redemption and character growth for V. She has done a horrifyingly evil thing, but there is still hope for her, and I genuinely hope she finds redemption by the end.

[Shred-Bot]

Yeah, I'm also puzzled. Either:
- Nale is so dumb he can't count to 3
- he includes himself in that number (he has some sorcerer levels, but it's a stretch imo)
- he might be speaking of Quarr (Nale doesn't know what happened to him and Quarr isn't really a caster)
- he's going to pull Leeky, Pompey or Hilgya out of his sleeve

I was going to suggest that he literally pulls a Reduce Person-ed Leeky (that would make him Tiny, after all) out from his sleeve...

...But I do believe he's going sleeveless in the desert heat. You can see his armpits!

[Nephrahim]

I assume it works up to some fraction of ancestry, i.e. back a certain number of generations. If you are 1/16th x, for example, or 1/64th.

To phrase it another way, it extends out to a certain level of cousins.

It's possible that the D&D world isn't that old and everyone is not actually related to everyone else.

The gods made the world, after all, and put all the various races on it. I don't think they started with cell and let evolution take it's coarse from there.

[Psyren]

Two things:

1. Wow, I thought Durkon would have to re-dedicate himself to an evil god or cause before he got his spells back! I guess in this world, only Paladins have to suck on insanely harsh code rules.

The rules for vampire clerics don't say anything about them needing atonement etc. In fact, if they did "fall" and have to atone, they wouldn't get Rebuke Undead at all, they'd simply lose TU. So the Giant is correct by RAW.

2. If V *is* history's worst mass murderer, then Haerta must have never actually used Familiacide.

I think it's more accurate to say that Qarr is just being an ass and trying to get under V's skin.