OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread

[Roderick_BR]

For those confused: Just read the previous strip...

[Getsugaru]

To those who keep mentioning Elan's Happy Ending prediction: a quote from Orson Welles:
"If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story."

[jukehero461]

Alright, that is absolutely TERRIFYING. Seriously, that is some scary, scary stuff right there.

[Vectner]

This is the saddest that thing I've ever seen.

[bengator]

I think we are still in Roy's head only. As the leader of the party, he really wants what his party wants for themselves. So his happy ending would be both he and his party getting everything they want.

If so, like that Mallack just shows up with Durkon, as if Belkar was lying the whole time. When he snaps out, I think we will see more Roy character growth. I think his attitude towards new Belkar will soften.

Best argument that it is shared fantasy is we don't really see what V wants, such as ultimate knowledge or reuniting w his family. Of course this could be because Roy has no idea what V would ultimately want. Maybe scribing exploding runes on Belkar's tombstone . . .

[pendell]

A well-made strip. It looks happy, yet the happiness of the strips is all the more poignant because you know it isn't really happy and they are all locked in a dream world.

It looks to me as if there are a couple of happy endings spliced together. Certainly nale shaking hands looks like an Elan-dream, not a Roy-dream.

That's a LOT of information communicated in a single panel. You could almost frame it as art.

ETA: Interestingly enough, I see a Roy happy ending (defeating Xykon) an Elan happy ending (Nale shaking hands) and a Haley happy ending (haley shooting Tsukiko/swimming in loot) but not a *Belkar* happy ending. I wonder what's going through HIS mind?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[LasVegasLawyer]

So help me, Giant, if this turns out to be "and then Roy woke up from an enchantment placed on Dorukan's gate," I'm going to be furious. Not furious enough to stop reading, of course, but furious enough to.. well.. do something.

[ChristianSt]

Really great update! (And probably one of my favourite strips - I really like the title, simple brilliant)

Only thing that kinda sucks are that I can't see what's going on in panel 19+20 (19 could be V+Roy+somebody, maybe even the complete Order[minus Belkar]? Btw, does panel 18 feature a rainbow behind Elan and his lollipop [if it is a lollipop]?), panels 21+ seems to be static background.

And I really like the implications of this:

1) I'm sure there will be an overall happy ending, but I like how this questions the possibly fulfilment of Elan's prophecy. (So maybe we get an happy ending without having Elan getting one?)

2) Exactly which illusions do we see? Some sort of shared one? A mix of specific ones? (As I don't think all are from the same POV, most kinda could fit with Elan, but some panels, like 7 or 9, seems a bit odd for Elans imagination.)

3) What is going on with Belkar? (I think none of the shown images are really something Belkar would envision [maybe panel 7], but why doesn't he has featured his own, and what's going to happen if you ok with dying in the illusion - or will this break the spell on him so Belkar can save the day?)

4) How much time passes until the Order gets free? 886 could have covered only a couple of minutes, but this could have covered hours or even days (potentially even longer, but anything over a few days seems kinda extreme).

[Incom]

Durkon in panel 3: "Dinnae look down, dinnae look down..."

[Yamian]

I wonder if this counts as Elans "Happy Ending"?

I found it amusing that Tsukiko was still there in this.

No one from OOTS knows she is dead threfore she is part of their imaginations while under the effect of the illusion.

Does the time move at different pace while "charmed"? Did OOTS spend just 10 minutes charmed and it seems like a lifetime to them? And what if it's the other way around? Can they starve do death? Why no Raise Dead for Belkar? Will they be moving in the real word or just be sitting ducks for anyone (LG) that comes by?

Again... More questions with each new strip...

[factotum]

So help me, Giant, if this turns out to be "and then Roy woke up from an enchantment placed on Dorukan's gate," I'm going to be furious.

Why are you even thinking that might be a possibility? At what point during the life of the strip so far have you got the impression the Giant would pull a trick like that?

[DigoDragon]

The last few updates remind me of a trick I used in a past D&D campaign.
Except mine had more tapioca pudding on my GM notes...

[JCAll]

I like the idea that Belkar's fantasy is that he died instead of Durkon. Beyond that, it's clearly a combination of Roy, Elan and Haley's fantasies as opposed to any individual and I suspect the reason we don't see Belkar's is because we will either see it next page (it being a significant aspect of his character development) or we will never see it (in order to continue the masking of how deep his character development really is)

There are a few other points that Belkar could have a hand in. His grave scene for one, since the two people he hates (jerk with sword and exploding runes elf) are leaving, while the people he's actually on alright terms with are mourning him. Also the scene where Haley/Elan and Roy/Celia are making out, since they're in the same room and both pairs have been reluctant to get hands on while anyone else was watching, on top of him being a perv we shouldn't put voyeurism past his ghost. I mean, if it's good enough for Roy's Dad...

[Kazyan]

Incredible artwork!

I'm excited to see what comes next--how the Order will react when they get out of the illusion. Guh, they'll be in no emotional shape to fight the Linear Guild.

[The Glyphstone]

This comic actually makes me feel kinda sad.

[Tev]

At first I had the "what a useless filler" reaction, the illusion trap was pretty well established last strip . . . but it's so well done, with so many little character moments that I just can't stop looking at it again and again.

Overally pretty sad comic, and terrifying too as in how much time has really passed and what's happenning around the Order.

[SaintRidley]

There are a few other points that Belkar could have a hand in. His grave scene for one, since the two people he hates (jerk with sword and exploding runes elf) are leaving, while the people he's actually on alright terms with are mourning him. Also the scene where Haley/Elan and Roy/Celia are making out, since they're in the same room and both pairs have been reluctant to get hands on while anyone else was watching, on top of him being a perv we shouldn't put voyeurism past his ghost. I mean, if it's good enough for Roy's Dad...

Yep. It's a subtle hand Belkar has in this illusion, but being dead in the illusion, the spell probably only grants such subtle hints.

It's almost certainly a shared illusion - there are bits here that simply can't be explained as an individualized illusion. Add that to the fact that this strip is one of the characters' eyes and the answer is just plain obvious.

I really look forward to Rich's commentary on this part of the story in Book 5.

[3WhiteFox3]

Is it just me, or does Elan look more confused than upset in Belkar's Funeral scene? Maybe that's hinting at something.

I don't know, Haley is obviously comforting him.

[sentaku]

What I find most interesting is the fact that Elan does not have his lute in any of the panels.

[Vinsfeld]

Awesome comic, but also kinda sad.

[Wiffleboy]

I’m pretty certain we are now in Elan’s head. You’ll notice that Elan appears in all but four panels which is more than any of the other characters. The few he does not wouldn’t be too far of a stretch for his imagination. He would want a statue built for Roy defeating one of the most evil villains of their lifetime, he would want Roy’s father to get into heaven, he would like to see Haley’s father freed with Haley teaching Bizzok a lesson or two, and the idea of Roy and Durkon drinking it up and having a good time would be a pleasant thought for him. The last panel I can see looks like Elan is holding a bouquet of flowers. Something is in his other hand but I can’t make it out. Could it be a ring?

All these things suggest that we are peering ito Elan's head.

[Silverraptor]

Knowing the Giant, lets watch to see how none of that comes true.

[Coldwind]

Quite disappointed by Roy actually, he prefers Durkon to be alive and yet he does not care about Belkar's resurrection, even though he is still in a good shape for resurrection (not disintegrated or anything). Plus his big ego and carelessness in Belkar's funeral.

[137beth]

I'm sorta surprised that anyone came up with the idea that every panel is part of the same person's memory. I thought it was pretty clear from the content that many panels belonged to different individuals. I guess that they could all be a joint memory, as others have suggested, though, but a lot of the panels seem pretty clearly slanted towards one person.

[onionbreath]

Quite disappointed by Roy actually, he prefers Durkon to be alive and yet he does not care about Belkar's resurrection, even though he is still in a good shape for resurrection (not disintegrated or anything). Plus his big ego and carelessness in Belkar's funeral.

He's known for months that Belkar is fated to die. Regardless of his opinion of whether or not Belkar deserves to die, I would think a Lawful Good character would be the least likely to try to subvert a prophecy.

It's also only been a few minutes since he found out Durkon was vampirized (an event which would not have occurred if not for Belkar).

[Deepbluediver]

Quite disappointed by Roy actually, he prefers Durkon to be alive and yet he does not care about Belkar's resurrection, even though he is still in a good shape for resurrection (not disintegrated or anything). Plus his big ego and carelessness in Belkar's funeral.

Ok, but why? Roy freely admits that Belkar should be in jail, or dead, except that he's a high level adventurer and keeping him contained with other powerful characters and focused on other evils that are even worse is more effective than trying to imprison or execute him.

What benefit would resurrecting him achieve?

By comparison, Durkon is a long-time friend and the only other LG member of the OotS.

[androkguz]

Ok Giant, I was a little pissed that you were taking so long for 887, but now that I see the detail on it I totally forgive you and thank you for this great comic :)

[ShadowRudolph]

Meh, I didn't like this strip. The end of the last one confirms it's just an illusion, so it feels kinda pointless.

This strip has a point, it shows that the story has already got a "Happy Ending". Which means things might not end well, even for Elan.

[Smolder]

This comic just makes me more anxious of what is going on outside the illusion. I wonder how much time has passed. The Linear Guild is getting closer and the Order are sitting ducks. How will the Order free themselves from the illusion?

If the LG shows up, they see the Order standing with their backs turned.

The LG mount a surprise attack, killing all of the members of the Order in an increasinging purple-hued moment of victory, followed by much backslapping and villainous self-congratulatory monologues.

[Reddish Mage]

Really great update! (And probably one of my favourite strips - I really like the title, simple brilliant)

Only thing that kinda sucks are that I can't see what's going on in panel 19+20 (19 could be V+Roy+somebody, maybe even the complete Order[minus Belkar]? Btw, does panel 18 feature a rainbow behind Elan and his lollipop [if it is a lollipop]?), panels 21+ seems to be static background.

And I really like the implications of this:

1) I'm sure there will be an overall happy ending, but I like how this questions the possibly fulfilment of Elan's prophecy. (So maybe we get an happy ending without having Elan getting one?)

2) Exactly which illusions do we see? Some sort of shared one? A mix of specific ones? (As I don't think all are from the same POV, most kinda could fit with Elan, but some panels, like 7 or 9, seems a bit odd for Elans imagination.)

3) What is going on with Belkar? (I think none of the shown images are really something Belkar would envision [maybe panel 7], but why doesn't he has featured his own, and what's going to happen if you ok with dying in the illusion - or will this break the spell on him so Belkar can save the day?)

4) How much time passes until the Order gets free? 886 could have covered only a couple of minutes, but this could have covered hours or even days (potentially even longer, but anything over a few days seems kinda extreme).

Hmm..

1) This is clearly a happy ending for Elan, its even Elan focused. Elan gets 3 whole panels where he is the only PC we see and is doing things like riding dinosaurs, finding a mate for Banjo, and making up with his brother before his father. What more is necessary for a happy ending? A ball pit? (Wouldn't that huge room full of gold suffice?)

2) What's odd about Belkar's death from Elan's imagination, nor Belkar's imagination for that matter? Also Roy's statue seems quite ok with most of the orders' dreams (who wouldn't wish for Roy to get the hero treatment?). It could be a shared illusion based on the order's hopes, dreams, fears whatever, but if we are seeing a particular PC's illusion we would be seeing Elan's. The number of Elan-focused strips, and the sheer optimistic euphoria suits his imagination (I can only picture Elan daring to dream of Malack resurrecting Durkon quietly).

3) Belkar has himself suggested he isn't good for anything other than hurting people and in that panel he didn't sound like he still had the zest for it; would Belkar even respond to a raise in the unlikely event it was given?

4) As for the passage of time, probably not even hours, as we have the LG hunting for them and they have significantly more illusion-resistant (even immune) members.