OOTS #887 - The Discussion Thread

[kxm]

I found this one of the sadder comics for some reason...it's this perfect saccharine happiness that we know won't happen. And the art style makes it that much more powerful.

[Azukar]

First thought: Awesome non-standard panel layout!

Second thought: Nooooooo! I want more more more (content in this update)!

Third thought: No matter how far down you spiral, Belkar is dead.

Fourth thought: Elan is still second to gold in Hayley's dream!

[Twig]

So everyone here just forgot that Belkar is DESTINED to die? The whole group knows that, how could they see anything but Belkar being dead in their illusions? Him living is just not an option.

[Porthos]

Third thought: No matter how far down you spiral, Belkar is dead.

Turning and turning in the widening gyre....

[Temotei]

I'm...kind of disappointed in Roy, if these dreams are of any indication of his inner self.

[Mike Havran]

Honestly I think last strip was Roy's illusion. Straight up fight, wacking Xykon.

This is Elan's. An epic story with wrapping up all the loose ends and everyone's happy at the end. The panels not about Elan are him imagining what would be "best" for everyone.

I think we'll be seeing Belkar's soon, maybe where he kills everyone. Or where he realizes that killing everyone is not actually what would make him most happy. And then he dies for real.

I doubt that this is solely Elan's dream. He has no idea of the Julie-Roy-Eugene relationship and Haley certainly did not describe Bozzok vs. Ian struggle.

I would see it like this is a mix of all their dreams. Panels:
1. Roy (or all)
2. Roy (or all)
3. Roy (or all)
4. Elan
5. Haley
6. Roy
7. Elan (or all)
8. Haley
9. Roy
10.Roy
11.Elan/Haley
12.Haley
13.Elan
14.Roy
15.Elan
16.?Haley
17.?Haley/Elan
18.Elan
19....

[luc258]

I really wonder if the panel is a collection of the wishes of all the OOTS members present or just Roy and what Roy thinks the others want.

[rodneyAnonymous]

It seems like they are in the same fantasy world, not that they are seeing different illusions.

1) nothing from Belkar's point of view
2) several panels with more than one character getting a happy ending, e.g. the one with Haley/Elan and Roy/Celia
3) consistent world-state (for example who is alive and in what condition) in all panels
4) no evidence against a shared vision, or for separate visions

[Morquard]

Haley has been pretty open with Elan lately and told him the story of Bozzok and her dad probably. So yes he could imagine that being the best ending to that feud.

Even if Elan was replaced by Nale by the time "he" met Julia, he knew about her. He went there with the others to save her. So having Roy reunited with her makes sense for him.

Do you really think Roy dreams about having his statue 20 ft high? I never saw him like wanting overly much glory. Elan on the other hand thinks that's a perfectly reasonable story-like thing to happen for the hero of a story.

TBH, having all of this being Elan makes alot more sense than it being a mix, because some of those are quite weird for some of them.
Haley sparing Bozzok. Roy's statue. Eugene's wings.

[nonamearisto]

On a positive note, since this illusion seems to be feeding at least some feasible advice (like using a forcecage on Redcloak), it might be giving them some help in the event of a real fight. Durkon is still a vampire, though.

[Melee]

Well, the Order will absolutely NOT be happy when the illusion/enchantment is broken, when they realise that it was fake and they are still in their current apparently hopeless situation.

Maybe V will be the most clearly-thinking one of the bunch when s/he shows up

[Mike Havran]

Haley has been pretty open with Elan lately and told him the story of Bozzok and her dad probably. So yes he could imagine that being the best ending to that feud.

Haley was more open with him than with others, but it's not like the Thieves' Guild power struggle is a chatty topic for her and that image is of the one who knows the Guild from personal exp., not just a story

Even if Elan was replaced by Nale by the time "he" met Julia, he knew about her. He went there with the others to save her. So having Roy reunited with her makes sense for him.

He has no idea about Julia and Roy's rivalry. The sour expression of her face is definitely Roy's imagination.

Do you really think Roy dreams about having his statue 20 ft high? I never saw him like wanting overly much glory. Elan on the other hand thinks that's a perfectly reasonable story-like thing to happen for the hero of a story.

Yes, of course Roy dreams of that statue and rubbing it into his sister's face. This is exactly Roy's nature, he's pretty egotistical after all.

TBH, having all of this being Elan makes alot more sense than it being a mix, because some of those are quite weird for some of them.
Haley sparing Bozzok. Roy's statue. Eugene's wings.

Nobody says Haley wouldn't kill Bozzok after the ceremony. And I don't interpret the strip as all the panels being in all minds, but rather as a selection of their respective dream sequences.

[nonamearisto]

Well, the Order will absolutely NOT be happy when the illusion/enchantment is broken, when they realise that it was fake and they are still in their current apparently hopeless situation.

Maybe V will be the most clearly-thinking one of the bunch when s/he shows up

Maybe the runes have to be disrupted, because... oh... this:

http://i47.tinypic.com/403h1.jpg

As to how they will NOT be happy...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1...79io1_1280.jpg

[Giggling Ghast]

This does seem to be a mass shared hallucination.

I wonder if dying is what Belkar wants to do now. Since he gets buried with his faithful cat, he might consider that a happy ending.

[Starwaster]

Uh oh. Did Elan just get his happy ending?

If so, he needs to go back and get a refund. Belkar-style.

[Malak'ai]

Haven't read all the posts, but I just have to say... WOOHOO! Banjo gets some female-sock-puppet love! .

Oh... And poor Belkar... Everyone wants him dead .

[Incendax]

It is all what Elan wants to happen.

[ti'esar]

If this is Elan's illusion (which I doubt), I wonder if that means the next strips will be Haley and Belkar's?

[AvangionQ]

Wow, that's one hell of an epic tier illusion!

[Math_Mage]

Either it's a shared illusion with composite impressions of a happy ending, or different panels are from different illusions. No evidence either way. Some panels (especially the one with Tarquin and Nale) are certainly not what Roy would see as a happy ending. But Roy is the only member of the party that could generate every panel from his own memories.

I'm...kind of disappointed in Roy, if these dreams are of any indication of his inner self.

Why, because he'd like a statue? Because he doesn't care about Belkar? Just how pure would Roy have to be for the illusion to reverse those statements?

[Leolo]

If this is Elan's illusion Roy would be sad over Belkar's dead and would also comfort Elan.

So i say it is shared between Elan, Roy and Haley. Maybe we will get a version of V + Belkar next, but it could also be that we simple doesn't see every dream they have.

[Weimann]

Let's see if I've go this right.

Panel 1 (counting clockwise): They defeat Team Evil and get hold of Xykon's phylactery.
Panel 2: Durkon rejoins the party.
Panel 3: They throw the phylactery into a volcano.
Panel 4: Elans family reunites.
Panel 5: Azure City is retaken.
Panel 6: Roy obtains his father's approval.
Panel 7: Belkar is buried. Guess they didn't have diamonds.
Panel 8: Haley conquers the thieves' guild.
Panel 9: Roy gets a huge statue.
Panel 10: The remaining gates are sealed.
Panel 11: Epic makeouts.
Panel 12: Haley becomes a duck.
Panel 13: The Almighty Banjo gets a girlfriend.
Panel 14: Roy and Durkon hangs out, dwarf style.
Panel 15: Elan rides a dinosaur.
Panel 16: Hinjo and that woman, I forget her name, returns.
Panel 17: MitD and O-Chul reunite.
Panel 18: Elan gets a lollipop.
Panel 19: Too blurry to make out.

Sounds about right?

[Leolo]

One thing (don't know if someone noticed this until now): V doesn't look happy in any of her/his appearances. Maybe this shows V doubts the illusion, clearly she/he would be a good candidate to find out it is an illusion.

Better than Belkar, who can be mindaffected pretty easy as we have seen. Would only work if V is also affected soon, though.

[thereaper]

V is not in the room.

[Porthos]

Maybe we will get a version of V + Belkar next, but it could also be that we simple doesn't see every dream they have.

One thing (don't know if someone noticed this until now): V doesn't look happy in any of her/his appearances. Maybe this shows V doubts the illusion, clearly she/he would be a good candidate to find out it is an illusion.

Better than Belkar, who can be mindaffected pretty easy as we have seen.

V isn't there yet.

[Holy_Knight]

However, the oracle says in response to Elan's question. "Yes, for you at least."

Which means when the entire story is over, Elan will have a happy ending. That can be interpreted to here, with Elan being happy in an illusion, and dying during it. He would have died in happiness.

Not at all. Let's try this out:

"...and then he, his true love, and his best friend in the whole world slowly starved to death, while they all hallucinated that their entire quest was not an utter failure. One of his missing friends was found and killed by their enemies, and the other remained an unholy mockery of everything he had ever stood for in life. After some fighting between multiple sets of bad guys, the most powerful among them was victorious. With no one left to oppose them, the forces of evil ushered in a new age of hell-on-earth. The End."

I assure you, that is NOT a happy ending for Elan.

Guys, you can stop freaking out about this being Elan's prophecy. War and XPs commentary says his prophecy is a word from the Giant to the readers that when the entire story is over Elan will have a happy ending, and that while things might get scary for a while they will work out in the end.

Exactly.


On another note, I can tell it's O-Chul now, but at first I thought the MiTD was meeting two other shadowy beings--which made me think the dream was of him finding his parents or others of his species and discovering what he is. That would be a nice thing for him too. :)

[PsykoKnight]

Epic Panel!!!

To the question about shared dream vs one of seperate partymembers dream, notice the upper right corner.

Is this skin above the eye? Is it Roys face?
It is a bit lighter brown than his skin, but still a closer match for than anybody else in the party.

If its correct it does not say that its not a shared illusion, only that it is experienced by Roy.

[Giggling Ghast]

Is that a lollipop Elan is holding or a rattle?

[thereaper]

Epic Panel!!!

To the question about shared dream vs one of seperate partymembers dream, notice the upper right corner.

Is this skin above the eye? Is it Roys face?
It is a bit lighter brown than his skin, but still a closer match for than anybody else in the party.

If its correct it does not say that its not a shared illusion, only that it is experienced by Roy.

That is the ceiling. Check the previous pages.

[veti]

Is it just me, or does anyone else think this looks like the end of Book 5?

But then the Giant usually announces those, with some fanfare. It's a very downbeat note to end on, but it seems pretty clear this book is - not going to end with free puppies all round.