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2013-06-13, 10:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
So how would you make your Drow PCs and not make them Drizzt Clone?
-An outcast but still viewed as unlikable in views of "good race". It's like he or she is a goody two shoe in drow's morals but a despicable jerk in "good" race's morals (like Elric of Melnibone).
- An insider's view on why Drow's are evil (like they do "bad" things to curb overpopulation and resource scarcity).
- A drow mecenary who just join in the party for money.
Any ideas?Badly drawn helmet avatar drawn by me.
Rest in Peace:SpoilerMiko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
Krunch- Looking For Group
Bill- Left 4 Dead
Soap Mactavish- Modern Warfare 3
Sandman- Modern Warfare 3
Ghost and Roach- Modern Warfare 2
Gabe- Dead Space 2
Dom- Gears of War 3
Carmine Brothers- Gears of War series
Uriel Septim VII- Elderscrolls Oblivion
Commander Shepherd- Mass Effect 3
Ned Stark- Song of Ice and Fire
Apple Jack's parents
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2013-06-13, 11:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
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- Alaska
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Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
I dislike the Drow culture as depicted; it makes no sense, and the problems are just too huge and glaring. So I don't use the race at all, unless I completely redo the culture from the ground up first.
"We were once so close to heaven, Peter came out and gave us medals declaring us 'The nicest of the damned'.."
- They Might Be Giants, "Road Movie To Berlin"
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2013-06-14, 12:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
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Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
Step 1: Have the campaign be situated in Eberron.
Step 2: Enjoy avoiding any chance of an accidental Driz'zt clone.Last edited by Fable Wright; 2013-06-14 at 12:56 AM.
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2013-06-14, 01:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
Well the first thing I do is I use the Races of War Drow instead of the one where you get LA +2 for a bunch of non-abilities. Or anything involving LA at all, because it's the most efficient way to **** up the game.
The second thing I'd do is decide whether or not to research D&D drow, because most of my perception on how drow "should" act comes from Drowtales rather than D&D.
The third thing I'd do is check with the DM about the diplomatic status of Drow on the surface. If the canon Lolthians hold sway and are still kill-on-sight to the surface then you're not going to get archetypes other than Drizz'l with a class change, but if relations are such that killing drow for being drow is about as frowned on as doing the same to the other kinds of elf, then you can get trade relations of some kind and therefore have it plausible that people might leave Lolthian territory for reasons other than "My god, my god, every single one of my culture is a lunatic".
If that doesn't float your boat, address any silliness you feel is still present in the drow. Say there's some rebel enclave on the surface, or in a different bunch of caves, that doesn't universally worship Lolth and if applicable has found a way to en-masse escape her divine retribution. Once she's out of the picture the stupidest excesses of drow society will probably iron themselves out within half an elf generation.
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Of course, I've just mentioned all of the above without touching on the unfortunate implications of the fact Drow are evil black elves. Making them not universally or majority evil solves this, or is close enough for government work at least.
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2013-06-14, 01:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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- California
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Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
Badly drawn helmet avatar drawn by me.
Rest in Peace:SpoilerMiko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
Krunch- Looking For Group
Bill- Left 4 Dead
Soap Mactavish- Modern Warfare 3
Sandman- Modern Warfare 3
Ghost and Roach- Modern Warfare 2
Gabe- Dead Space 2
Dom- Gears of War 3
Carmine Brothers- Gears of War series
Uriel Septim VII- Elderscrolls Oblivion
Commander Shepherd- Mass Effect 3
Ned Stark- Song of Ice and Fire
Apple Jack's parents
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2013-06-14, 01:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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- Somewhere south of Hell
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Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
Two that have shown up in games I've been in;
A drow elf captured by a Grey Elf raid, which went in to exterminate all citizens of a dark elf outpost. The mother was in labor, and the capturer concluded that since the baby was unborn at time of attack, it wasn't a citizen.
A century and a half later, the dark elf had been raised by a particularly cult-ish version of the grey elves, who wanted to reunite all the elven races under one banner. He was a completely loyal assassin and scout. He ended up sacrificing his life and soul for the good of the 'elven nation'.
The second was a self centered genius with no morals. He was originally a high elf who was afflicted by the same curse as the drow for turning against his people for the sake of his magic studies. He was mechanically drow, and a necromancer who played long term conquest. The one and only D&D character I've ever had who was influenced by M:tG
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2013-06-14, 01:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
Drow culture makes perfect sense, so long as you stop thinking of them as a group of people and start thinking of them as a convenient source of leather outfits. Mmm, leather...
Anyway, my favored method? Just be a Drow. When people call you out and say "Hey! Aren't Drow supposed to be evil!?" just pretend (in-character) you have no idea what they're talking about. If they persist, act like they're the crazy ones. No need to get angsty over it.
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2013-06-14, 02:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
Drowtales is probably the only webcomic archive I've read (out of hundreds) that I've neither finished within days at most, nor given up on in disgust; I've been slowly plugging away for at least six months on it. So my limited knowledge of that and of regular drow prevents me from discerning this: what, precisely, differentiates Drowtales from a slightly-logic-boosted version of D&D drow? (Well, OK, they don't seem to have the same sort of goddess, and there's some stuff about demon summoning/sealing that I don't quite get, but yeah.)
Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
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2013-06-14, 02:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
I once had an idea for a Drow PC who was a total Drizzt clone...
Because he was actually masquerading as Drizzt to take advantage of his reputation. He figured it was the best way not to be killed by random people and gets him tons of respect; he just has to step lightly around certain people. Privately, he laughs at the whole "angsty CG" act, but he does it well enough that he can trick anyone who's not familiar with the real thing.
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2013-06-14, 02:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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- California
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Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
Badly drawn helmet avatar drawn by me.
Rest in Peace:SpoilerMiko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
Krunch- Looking For Group
Bill- Left 4 Dead
Soap Mactavish- Modern Warfare 3
Sandman- Modern Warfare 3
Ghost and Roach- Modern Warfare 2
Gabe- Dead Space 2
Dom- Gears of War 3
Carmine Brothers- Gears of War series
Uriel Septim VII- Elderscrolls Oblivion
Commander Shepherd- Mass Effect 3
Ned Stark- Song of Ice and Fire
Apple Jack's parents
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2013-06-14, 02:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
If you are familiar with the Drow in Forgotten Realms, you have a lot of choices.
Followers of Vhaeraun are almost entirely male, resent the female-dominated population and work in secret to support each other and harm the female power structure. They are also evil, focused on stealth and the occasional assassination. This can give an evil-motivated character reason to side with a good-aligned party against some drow matrons (or just to save his own skin).
Wizards, despite having their own power base and status in drow cities, are always second-class citizens to the priestesses of Lolth. Much like the followers of Vhaeraun above, they can be willing to work with others for their own goals - possibly even more so, because drow wizards are frequently just interested in "more power".
Followers of Eilistraee are good-aligned drow who tend to view the surface world in a positive light. Unlike Drizzit, large groups of drow tend to be distrusted by most other races - especially other elves. Whats more, followers can be anywhere from secretive to very open in attempting to get others to accept them, which can come of as quite questionable behavior from someone generally considered to be evil.
And of course, there are just the random ideas: The neutral drow who is cruel but not evil, the evil drow who is allying with surface characters to take down a rival, a drow druid and all the interesting variants a subterranean druid might entail.SpoilerThank you to zimmerwald1915 for the Gustave avatar.
The full set is here.
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2013-06-14, 03:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
That's a big part of it yes, but also the idea that they're in no way universally evil despite being meant to be more capricious than baseline humans.
Also, a smaller quantity of BDSM material, and - in contrast to the stereotype of D&D Drow as opposed to what the fluff actually says - males are actually allowed to advance quite far in society before hitting the glass ceiling.
The fact the majority of them aren't verifiably Evil is a big one, unless you consider that part of "slightly-logic-boosted", but I accept the surface similarities are numerous enough. The demon summoning & sealing is a feature of Drowtales' magic system rather than an intrinsic part of the culture, and that's enough of that because that's a somewhat spoiler-y zone.Last edited by Omegonthesane; 2013-06-14 at 03:40 AM.
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2013-06-14, 03:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
It's easy. Be chaotic good rebel. Dpn't agnst about it - you don't pity your race or want it to be like you desperately. You realize it's impossible and despise them for it.
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2013-06-14, 04:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
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2013-06-14, 07:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
Make a Chaotic Good drow and come up with a reason for them being a Chaotic Good rebel. Any reason.
Bam! You have avoided making a Drizzt clone.
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2013-06-14, 08:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
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2013-06-14, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
- Location
- New York
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Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
If you can't get past the scheming, make a Machiavellian drow who seeks power to, well, become powerful, but is smart about it and so makes him/herself needed in society.
My webcomic!
Currently DMing:
Tales of Aequar: Runite's Rise IC
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Playing Natalia Bolts,Jadeite Nocrius, and Soren Lowell
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2013-06-14, 01:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
I don't know a lot about the Dark Elf Series but I can think of some obvious ways to avoid a Drizzt clone; no scimitars, no dual-wielding, no purple eyes.
Depending on if you're starting at high enough level to have the Leadership feat, (or something similar,) maybe play a PC that's out to settle a group of drow expatriates?
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2013-06-14, 02:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2008
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- Thulcandra
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Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
A Lawful Evil rebel who despises the decadence and pointless backstabbing of the drow culture, but who does not have a proper moral compass to embrace in its place. He adventures to purge the world of evil as he perceives it, and will go to any lengths to do so.
Blue Ghost, Lawful Good generalist wizard, at your service.
Love wins. S'agapo.
I make MtG cards. My portfolio
Avatar by AsteriskAmp.
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2013-06-14, 02:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
I had an idea for a female CG Drow druid who worships/totemizes spiders; but thinks that Lolth makes a mockery of their good name. Her nickname is Facebiter. Can you guess what she does in Wild Shape?
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2013-06-14, 04:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
A completely buckfug insane (by the other PCs' standards, anyway) ex-con with little to no understanding of money and the supreme confidence to disregard most clothing norms as well (as in, the only thing guaranteed to be covered is the neck, for modesty). Oh, and a tendency to dye her hair and/or reapply her signature facial markings with her newest kill's blood.
Intentionally played to be disturbing as all hell.
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2013-06-14, 07:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
I played a drow once who was an escaped slave and ran away to the surface. On the good side of the spectrum, since I pretty much always play good characters. He doesn't give a rat's ass about the culture of the drow one way or another, except maybe to stay as far as he can from it. Instead, he's just enjoying being on the surface, thinking it's a paradise in comparison to the underdark, and is currently seeking another culture to adopt as his own.
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2013-06-14, 08:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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- California
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Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
Badly drawn helmet avatar drawn by me.
Rest in Peace:SpoilerMiko Miyazaki, Thanh, Durkon- Order of the Stick
Krunch- Looking For Group
Bill- Left 4 Dead
Soap Mactavish- Modern Warfare 3
Sandman- Modern Warfare 3
Ghost and Roach- Modern Warfare 2
Gabe- Dead Space 2
Dom- Gears of War 3
Carmine Brothers- Gears of War series
Uriel Septim VII- Elderscrolls Oblivion
Commander Shepherd- Mass Effect 3
Ned Stark- Song of Ice and Fire
Apple Jack's parents
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2013-06-14, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2012
Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
Exist in a setting where societies are divided by geographical and cultural contexts instead of by racial barriers so that no race is predisposed towards any sort of trends or dispositions; be a Drow who is just some dude, you know?
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2013-06-15, 12:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2013
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Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
-Pick Lawful Evil
-Give him some goal which coincides with the parties due to arbritary reasons
(You need to assassinate an earl, the party just HAPPENS to be working for that earl to save his son. You save the son and when you sit down for a thank you dinner, you stab him and vanish)
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2013-06-15, 12:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
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- Nexus
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Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
For whatever reason, the character wasn't raised in the drow culture at all, instead being raised in a temple or by an adventurer.
Has about as much idea of drow culture as anyone else does.
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2013-06-15, 01:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
Not exactly drow but fairly close
I once played a half-drow(but 100% Elven) Who was rather cheerful and usually upbeat. There was no resentful mother or distant stepfather. He and his siblings were raised by a loving High Elf father and Drow mother. For him brooding about the world that wouldn't accept him was just letting the *******s win. So if someone gave him grief over his Drow heritage he told them to kiss his elven arse.
Wizards, despite having their own power base and status in drow cities, are always second-class citizens to the priestesses of Lolth. Much like the followers of Vhaeraun above, they can be willing to work with others for their own goals - possibly even more so, because drow wizards are frequently just interested in "more power"Nale is no more, he has ceased to be, his hit points have dropped to negative ten, all he was is now dust in the wind, he is not Daniel Jackson dead, he is not Kenny dead, he is final dead, he will not pass through death's revolving door, his fate will not be undone because the executives renewed his show for another season. His time had run out, his string of fate has been cut, the blood on the knife has been wiped. He is an Ex-Nale! Now can we please resume watching the Order save the world.
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2013-06-15, 02:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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- GI Joe Headquarters
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2013-06-15, 02:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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- Germany
Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
I once played in a very large campaign where some of us where playing a bunch of drow heretics worshipping the god Vhaeraun, who had to flee their city when their cult was discovered, and ended up on the surface. As it is part of the gods agenda, some of us noticed that life on the surface is not as bad as the Lolth priestesses always said and except for the sun it's actually a lot better in almost every way.
They were still all bastards and kept stealing whatever they needed in food and equipment, but they knew they had to keep it down as they had not the numbers to deal with human patrols and hunting parties trying to take them down. They were not Good, but pragmatic enough to be "not evil" out of neccessity. Some even favored allying with evil wood elves.We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.
Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying
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2013-06-15, 05:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: Drow PCs (Different take and Reconstruction)
i'm a fan of unconventional drow portrayals myself. I'm also a fan of the Drowtales comic, which has a universe loosely based on D&D, but the drow society makes a bit more sense. i.e., there's lots of political maneuvering...but no more or less than something like Game of Thrones...except with demons!
IMO the idea of anything being "always chaotic evil" is absurd unless you're talking about actual personifications of the concept (Such as demons and other things that can't actually live without evil).
As for ideas within the universe we have to work with, here are some of mine:
1) An Eilastraee-follower like society, detailed above.
2) A character who loves their home and family, and only left because they wanted to seek their fortune or whatever. They're not evil in any way, but they do view things differently than the rest of the party: you can have them view "beast races" as nothing better than slaves, but not out of any sort of malice or hatred, but more of "white man's burden" type of thought process. It would give the paladin something to do, at least. Though you want to be careful...cuz I tried something similar to this and had a hard time convincing the paladin I wasn't evil. Then again I actually had to change my character TO non-evil at the last minute because he decided to play a paladin >_> long story.
I can think of more but really, a lot of them involve rewriting drow society. It's really no surprise that the whole Starlight and Shadows trilogy in Forgotten Realms had to invent things to make non-evil drow for 3rd edition (as well as making drow magic work on the surface...)
There's also the pathfinder pseudo-interpretation that drow represent literal corrupted elves. And another story along those same lines that has drow (or, rather, dark elves) as the result of the usual stick-in-the-mud elves giving in to some emotion or another (such as pleasure, hatred, etc.) which makes them far more varied and interesting just from the description of the concept. They wouldn't be EVIL, just consumed with a particular vice, from anger, to paranoia, to lust, or...religious zeal, arcane studies?