Help with last second Indian Setting

[CowardlyPaladin]

I've always liked settings that take place in Fantasy Counterpart cultures, altered of course to accomidate real magic. As a history student this is alot of fun, and it makes exploring character's motivations and understanding of the world much easier for me. Since I study Roman and Chinese history, most of my homebrew settings are located their, but I made the mistake of mentioning that their is an Indian based land. that trades with both nations. And of course, my setting backfired and the players are on a boat heading to totally not a fantasy stand in for India. So i have a problem...I don't know anything about India. I know spices, bits about Hinduism, architecture, costumes, weapons, reincarnation, early Buhhidism, the Caste System, and modern Indian history, but that doesn't help me very much in terms of making an interesting setting. So I need to make an interesting setting which fits into my current world that won't make the players (most of whom are history majors) feel patronized. So here are my requests

1) While I use real life pantheons (Celtic, Greece, Norse etc) in my game, I mostly do so because those gods are no longer worshiped, since I DO NOT want my game to get caught up in modern game politics, I don't want to use actual Hindu gods in my game, as they are still worshiped. I do have a fantasy Buhhidist faith, but it has been modified very much to fit in with a fantasy world and so is only vaguely similiar to the real thing. I might want some sort of new fantasy religion that is similar to Hinduism, but I really don't want to just copy paste the Gods

2) I don't want "Look its india, exactly the same but with magic". I love Kara-tur, but that isn't what i'm looking for. I more want something that is Indian in the same way Jade Empire is Chinese, LEgend of the Five Rings is Japanese, Avatar is Asia, and Forgotten Realms is Europe. A similar motif, culture, and style (architecture and clothing is a big part of my game), but something that is very much its own world, that just happens to draw upon India.

3) My world has three competing religions. The Pantheon, which is a massive amount of Gods from Forgotten Realms, GreyHawk, Ebberon, Ghostwalk, Pathfinder and some other settings. The Spirits who draw power from rituals rather than worship and make up the celestial bureaucracy, and the Titans (real life Gods) who draw power from sacrifices instead. They are constantly warring with each other (various other divine beings exist too but they are mostly in the background, the Old and Elder Gods who are the main forces of evil, the Pridmortials who are trapped, but these are all just minor sects). In addition we have the various beings of the outer planes (Devils, Daemons, Angels, Archons etc). People who worship Gods go to their plains, those who worship Titans go to the AL plane suited to them, and those who worship the Spirits are reincarnated. What I'm trying to figure out is if I use an Indian cosmology, I don't want it to undermine what I already have set up. The Addahists are inspired by Buhhidism who are trying to get souls to escape from the Great Wheel itself, and is trying to get ride of all forms of absolute morality.

4) Naga in my world are both the ones from Legend of the Five Rings, Pathfinder, and D&D, I don't know how that fits into the mythology.

5) Rakashas and Suras are two races of evil and good who reincarnate to fight each other throughout the centuries, with a WIDE variety of forms. I don't know how that fits either.

6) I know nothing about Indian history pre 1700s other than "empires were formed, and then they fell apart" I don't want a stand in, but some historical periods that could serve as an inspiration would be nice

7) Cultural beliefs, customs, and ways of thinking would be nice as well


Any ideas? I have two weeks to make this setting, but since I have work I doubt I have time to read the Indian Epics sadly :(

[DeltaEmil]

You could tell the players that they shouldn't have their characters go to your fantasy-India, because you don't want to serve them a stereotype-filled clichée. The players are surely going to respect this. Perhaps one of them might even be willing to be the GM for a session in your homebrew-world's Not-India.

Or perhaps the players are okay with stereotypes and hodge-podge not-too-correctly fantasy-India-kitchen sink, and might even expect that.

You should first ask them.

There's the Mahasarpa web enhancement. It might help you in a way.

[Grinner]

First, what kind of timeframe are we looking at?

Second, get this. Political elements aside, it's got a pretty introduction to Tibetan mythology.

[CowardlyPaladin]

You could tell the players that they shouldn't have their characters go to your fantasy-India, because you don't want to serve them a stereotype-filled clichée. The players are surely going to respect this. Perhaps one of them might even be willing to be the GM for a session in your homebrew-world's Not-India.

Or perhaps the players are okay with stereotypes and hodge-podge not-too-correctly fantasy-India-kitchen sink, and might even expect that.

You should first ask them.

There's the Mahasarpa web enhancement. It might help you in a way.

Wouldn't work. First off their going to India makes sense in the plot, they are wanted by the Roman Empire, can't get to China, and the players were like "Wait, lets just go to India, nobody will track us their" Since they have the last heir of totally not fantasy stand in caesarian with them, they need to go somewhere when they can be safe. Secondly these people will kill me if I give them stereotypes, they wouldn't mind hodge podge indian mix up them. I will check out that setting though, thanks alot

[CowardlyPaladin]

First, what kind of timeframe are we looking at?

Second, get this. Political elements aside, it's got a pretty introduction to Tibetan mythology.

Oh sorry missed this. I don't know the time periods of India, my setting is a Mix of the best periods of the Five Good Emperors, teh Roman Republic, and Octavians's Reign in Rome, and a weird mix of the heights of Tang, Ming, and Early Han Dynasty China. I like to mix and match my time periods.

I will check that out thanks. Does Tibet translate to India?

[Grinner]

Oh sorry missed this. I don't know the time periods of India, my setting is a Mix of the best periods of the Five Good Emperors, teh Roman Republic, and Octavians's Reign in Rome, and a weird mix of the heights of Tang, Ming, and Early Han Dynasty China. I like to mix and match my time periods.

Well it's good to know that you're flexible, but I had been asking when this needs to be finished.

I will check that out thanks. Does Tibet translate to India?

If my geography is still up to scratch, it's just north of India, meaning they're likely quite similar. Cultural diaspora, y'know?

[DeltaEmil]

I will check that out thanks. Does Tibet translate to India?

I don't know if that's fitting. Tibet has always been culturally a little bit more close to China, even before its annexation to the Chinese Republic (a political thema best not discussed here).

Nepal, Pakistan, or the history of the Kushan Empire might be a better fit somewhat for Not-India, to a certain degree.

Ask the players what they expect from your Almost-India. Perhaps one of them could help you flesh out the details.

[Calmar]

Not an expert on India, but as far as I know, Indian Indians are (or at least were in the past) as diverse as American Indians Native cultures. Just as it is obviously possible to create fictitious "European" kingdoms and cultures, certainly you can do so for India as well.

How important is it for the players to know everything at once about the new region? You could have the PCs travel to a secluded, wealthy city state (like, Rishnapur) that's surrounded by huge jungles and mountains. That way it's on one hand quite iconic (from my European POV, at least), yet also obvious that they only see one part of the region and leaves the rest open for further piece-by-piece exploration.

As far as religion is concerned, just come up with something cool. For instance, how about the Rishnapurian deities Dharasheena the dancing goddes of war and storms, or Majurapesh the two-elephant-headed god of fire, science, and eloquence? They probably look ridiculous to people knowledgeable about India, but so do the D&D pantheons to Europeans...

[CowardlyPaladin]

I forgot to mention, their is a fantasy persian Empire active around here too if that helps, pre Islamic.

1) Oh my time period is two weeks, we meet next week but the adventure will be on the high seas, and so I can expect them to land on the first city in about two weeks

2) Lol, I know its geographically similar, I have my schools highest grade in Geography, I just don't know the culture very well other than modern politics, which I don't to get involved in. I know Tibetian culture in how it relates to China, but not in terms of India

3) No they don't need to get involved in everything, but I know the party is going to try to get to the interior as fast as possible in order to escape from any Roman Agents. however, knowing my party, they could go anyways. I do want a costal city for them to land in however.

4) My players partly play D&D to learn about cultures, since we are all history majors here, so they do want to have some actual culture involved. One player explicetly wants to have reincarnation play a role in the game, another says she wants to lots of cool spirits/monsters, another said she wants to be able to explore ancient lost temples.

5)....thats....thats alot of kingdoms.....um....wow.

6) Any ideas to give these gods an "Indian" feel without becoming offensive? I like the FR gods because they have their own personalties and challenges, if people have any ideas for a cosmology let me know

[Grinner]

6) Any ideas to give these gods an "Indian" feel without becoming offensive? I like the FR gods because they have their own personalties and challenges, if people have any ideas for a cosmology let me know

How active are the gods in your campaign? If they're as active as most in other D&D settings, then it's plausible that these Not-Indians would worship the same deities as everyone else. Their particular customs might vary, however.

[CowardlyPaladin]

How active are the gods in your campaign? If they're as active as most in other D&D settings, then it's plausible that these Not-Indians would worship the same deities as everyone else. Their particular customs might vary, however.

Gods are very active in terms of talking to their followers, but their are some rules

1) Gods can only create Avatars once a century and only after MASSIVE investment, so most don't do it

2) Becasue Gods are so powerful, speaking to their followers often will actually kill them, so they tend to speak through images and obscure, so the mortal mind won't be overcome. Clerics and other Divine Casters are the only ones who can get these messages, and at higher level they can become more coherent and clear

3) Gods need worshiper to survive.

4) If people start worshiping gods differently, the God will split into two separate beings. So for example, Hexor and Bane were once a single God, but people in one region started to call Hexor Bane and saw him differently, and an entirely new being came into existence. Orthodoxy is extremely serious for Gods because of this.

5) Gods cannot effect free will, time, or the nature of souls, its forbidden.


The Titans (real life Gods) draw power based upon what is sacrificed to them, and can respond in kind. They are limited by local geography however, so when you leave their region, they are utterly helpess

The Spirits draw power from specific rituals and what not. Their are 14 Major Spirits, each with massive amounts of "Sub Spirits" who are aspects of each personalty. For the Trickster, one of the Great Spirits, has different faces such as the Seducer, the Thief, the Dancer, and the Wanderer, who are aspects of his/her being.

[Calmar]

6) Any ideas to give these gods an "Indian" feel without becoming offensive? I like the FR gods because they have their own personalties and challenges, if people have any ideas for a cosmology let me know

Personally, I think it's only offensive if you consciously and specifically aim to depict them in a ridiculous, or degrading way in order to actively insult Indian culture. I guess in the worst case it'll just be a naive misconception about the culture. After all, you strive to capture the spirit of India's awesomeness, don't you?
Just be open for critique by your players.

[CowardlyPaladin]

Personally, I think it's only offensive if you consciously and specifically aim to depict them in a ridiculous, or degrading way in order to actively insult Indian culture. I guess in the worst case it'll just be a naive misconception about the culture. After all, you strive to capture the spirit of India's awesomeness, don't you?
Just be open for critique by your players.

Thats fair, after all I'm not advocating an ethnocentric wold view or anything. However, I don't know what the spirit of India's awesomeness is before the modern times.

[Calmar]

However, I don't know what the spirit of India's awesomeness is before the modern times.

I guess that counts as awesome...


I didn't realise you don't have much concrete knowledge about India. Neither do I, so documentaries should be a great way to get the feel.

The Great Moghuls

General history The video should at least give some clues about what to specifically look for. Has some awesome war chants, too.


Ancient arms and armour I didn't have a clue about Indian weaponry. I'm honestly impressed.

Medieval architecture.

Some more wikipedia.

[CowardlyPaladin]

I guess that counts as awesome...

.....Ok that is pretty awesome.

I didn't realise you don't have much concrete knowledge about India. Neither do I, so documentaries should be a great way to get the feel.

The Great Moghuls

General history The video should at least give some clues about what to specifically look for. Has some awesome war chants, too.


Ancient arms and armour I didn't have a clue about Indian weaponry. I'm honestly impressed.

Medieval architecture.

Some more wikipedia.

Ok, I will watch these tonight when I am free, that should help make up for my total ignorance of the region

[Beleriphon]

Gods are very active in terms of talking to their followers, but their are some rules

1) Gods can only create Avatars once a century and only after MASSIVE investment, so most don't do it

Avatars are big part of Indian religion and myth. One of the most important aspects found in Indian is that gods do create Avatars on a relatively frequent basis. For example in the Ramayana Rama (an Avatar of Vishnu) fights an evil raksasha and saves his wife. You could make this a major part of the world, the deities in Not-India do frequently create avatars and interact in the world to right injustices.

I'd suggest the Wiki articles on Indian mythology, they're fairly complete and should give enough of an idea to get something sorted on quickly.

If you want to wholesale borrow something from India try the Vedic religion. It doesn't functionally exist in India any more having almost entirely being absorbed by Hinduism. As an aside, if you're looking at Hinduism keep in mind that it is actually a collection of dozens (if not hundreds) of separate religious traditions.

2) Because Gods are so powerful, speaking to their followers often will actually kill them, so they tend to speak through images and obscure, so the mortal mind won't be overcome. Clerics and other Divine Casters are the only ones who can get these messages, and at higher level they can become more coherent and clear.

3) Gods need worshiper to survive.

4) If people start worshiping gods differently, the God will split into two separate beings. So for example, Hexor and Bane were once a single God, but people in one region started to call Hexor Bane and saw him differently, and an entirely new being came into existence. Orthodoxy is extremely serious for Gods because of this.

Those three points functionally exist in Hinduism. Especially the last part, this is a major theme in India. There is only one God, with three aspects, and each aspect has multiple avatars that are worshiped.

5) Gods cannot effect free will, time, or the nature of souls, its forbidden.


The Titans (real life Gods) draw power based upon what is sacrificed to them, and can respond in kind. They are limited by local geography however, so when you leave their region, they are utterly helpless.

The Spirits draw power from specific rituals and what not. Their are 14 Major Spirits, each with massive amounts of "Sub Spirits" who are aspects of each personalty. For the Trickster, one of the Great Spirits, has different faces such as the Seducer, the Thief, the Dancer, and the Wanderer, who are aspects of his/her being.

In all seriousness you've already developed a very Vedic/Hindu styled fictional religion. Just apply Sanskrit styled names to your local deities in Not-India and you're done.

Another point in Indian religions is the idea of cosmic cycles. The universe is created and destroyed in cycles (or kalpas), and the same cosmic beings reappear in slightly different forms for each cycle. The kalpas are insanely long with one being 311,040,000 million years, or 311 trillion years.

[Thrudd]

Bam. Done. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_India
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_mythology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_mythological_wars

lol, I'm sure you already googled Indian history and mythology.
Seriously, Indian Hindu mythology has epic tales full of magic. Gods had wars over the earth and other realms in flying chariots and palaces, shooting lightning, magic arrows, and spells at eachother. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astra_(weapon)

[Kiren]

It just so happens I took a college course on Indian Philosophy and Religion!

Since I doubt I can get too in depth on the forum, I'll send you a message!

[CowardlyPaladin]

Avatars are big part of Indian religion and myth. One of the most important aspects found in Indian is that gods do create Avatars on a relatively frequent basis. For example in the Ramayana Rama (an Avatar of Vishnu) fights an evil raksasha and saves his wife. You could make this a major part of the world, the deities in Not-India do frequently create avatars and interact in the world to right injustices.

I'd suggest the Wiki articles on Indian mythology, they're fairly complete and should give enough of an idea to get something sorted on quickly.

If you want to wholesale borrow something from India try the Vedic religion. It doesn't functionally exist in India any more having almost entirely being absorbed by Hinduism. As an aside, if you're looking at Hinduism keep in mind that it is actually a collection of dozens (if not hundreds) of separate religious traditions.



Those three points functionally exist in Hinduism. Especially the last part, this is a major theme in India. There is only one God, with three aspects, and each aspect has multiple avatars that are worshiped.



In all seriousness you've already developed a very Vedic/Hindu styled fictional religion. Just apply Sanskrit styled names to your local deities in Not-India and you're done.

Another point in Indian religions is the idea of cosmic cycles. The universe is created and destroyed in cycles (or kalpas), and the same cosmic beings reappear in slightly different forms for each cycle. The kalpas are insanely long with one being 311,040,000 million years, or 311 trillion years.

1) So the Verdic Gods are more like a "Traditional" pantheon but people don't worship them anymore?

2) In my world though Gods don't walk around physically on a regular basis, should I change that for Not India, have a bunch of Avatars who regluraly walk around

3) Should they be spirits, Titans, Gods or something else?

4).....a cosmic cycle....thats 311 trillion years.....isn't the universe only 14 billion years old.......oh god thats a big number

5) Thank you for your support, I am going to read taht stuff today

[Spockears]

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/112198/Arrows-of-Indra
Maybe of some use?

[Beleriphon]

1) So the Verdic Gods are more like a "Traditional" pantheon but people don't worship them anymore?

I think its more fair to say that Hinduism is a modern form of the Vedic religion. The two aren't that different, but nobody would likely identify themselves as a Vedic specifically only because people in India would assume by saying as much they're actually stating they are a Hindu.

2) In my world though Gods don't walk around physically on a regular basis, should I change that for Not India, have a bunch of Avatars who regularly walk around.

I the Ramayana is one of India's epic poems (its 30,000 lines long) and features Rama as an avatar of Vishnu. The stories are designed to discuss proper Hindu righteousness and philosophy. The overall theme is Rama attempting to rescue his wife from an evil Rakshasha lord in a war. So having you're Not-Indian religion's objects of worship be a daily aspect (or at least centennial) aspect of life that would certainly bring them inline with Indian epic poetry.

3) Should they be spirits, Titans, Gods or something else?

Depends. I'd personally go with Titans since they if you want them to be entirely local, or go with Gods if you want them to follow that idea. I'd personally avoid the Spirits given the way you've described the way they work in your setting.

4).....a cosmic cycle....thats 311 trillion years.....isn't the universe only 14 billion years old.......oh god thats a big number

Want a real shock, according to Hinduism we're in the 7th kalpa. So multiply that number by seven to get how long time has existed as we understand it. Oh, and the kalpa is a cosmic "year" and each one has 360 cosmic "days". After one cosmic year the everything is done, even the gods. But, they are reborn in new forms

5) Thank you for your support, I am going to read taht stuff today

No problem. Again I'd suggest getting a an overview of the Mahabharata and the Ramayana for some good themes to work from. If you can read really fast the Mahabharata is only 1.8 million words in Sanskrit, or 200,000 individual lines of poetry. Otherwise you can find several works translated into English that take the story of the Mahabharata and tell it in the form of a more traditional novel. The main one I can think of is title Parva by S.L. Bhyrappa.

Also, from a purely historical take the Indian subcontinent was ruled by the Mughal empire which was dominated by Muslims rather than Hindus. Mind you this was the 14th through 16th centuries so its not really ancient as such. India has been invaded by countless people coming from outside the area, and has absorbed a great deal of those people's cultures. For example there is a Greco-Buddhist tradition that synthesized Greek religions into Buddhism.

Some links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age_India
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_India (this one is really good, it is an overview of around the 1st Millennium BCE to around 320 CE, so India as concurrent with Rome)

[CowardlyPaladin]

Still getting through the links. one of my players lent me Green Ronin Mindshadows I don't know if that would help. Ok, some new issues ahve been races


1) How do the D&D races (Haflings, Elves, Kobolds, Lizardfolk Dwarves, Gnomes, Orcs, Goblinoids, Giants, Ogres, croosbreeds, humans, etc) fit into an Indian style game. In my world the Gnomes are Greeks, Orcs are Germanic, Hobgoblins are Japan, Lizardfolk are Egyptian, Goblins are Persian, Elves are various Chinese groups, Dwarves are JewsArabs, Giants are Scandneavian, Bugbears are Goths, humans are Romans, haflings are Punic, etc, s should i have indian cultures for all of these races or draw upon other races

2) how do we fit the classes in this setting? I'm sure we can do something with the Caste system their? But which classes. I am not talented at homebrew in the least, but i'm sure some exist around their, and what classes do i want to use

3) If avatars walk around, how powerful are their? How much can they influence the world?

[BayardSPSR]

1) How do the D&D races (Haflings, Elves, Kobolds, Lizardfolk Dwarves, Gnomes, Orcs, Goblinoids, Giants, Ogres, croosbreeds, humans, etc) fit into an Indian style game. In my world the Gnomes are Greeks, Orcs are Germanic, Hobgoblins are Japan, Lizardfolk are Egyptian, Goblins are Persian, Elves are various Chinese groups, Dwarves are JewsArabs, Giants are Scandneavian, Bugbears are Goths, humans are Romans, haflings are Punic, etc, s should i have indian cultures for all of these races or draw upon other races

You definitely could have separate Indian cultures for each of these races. India has been multi-ethnic and multi-cultural for a very long time.

2) how do we fit the classes in this setting? I'm sure we can do something with the Caste system their? But which classes. I am not talented at homebrew in the least, but i'm sure some exist around their, and what classes do i want to use

Very, very broadly speaking, you're going to be looking at a priest/ruler-caste, a knight/warrior-caste, and then all the subdivisions of other people, plus people who are outside the caste system entirely due to being foreign (or not Hindu). You can interpret those into whatever classes you like.

3) If avatars walk around, how powerful are their? How much can they influence the world?

Not like Herakles, I think. More powerful. I leave a good answer to someone else; I'm not totally sure.


Just remember that modern stereotypes will not apply. Pre-1700, India was one of the wealthiest parts of the world.

[CowardlyPaladin]

You definitely could have separate Indian cultures for each of these races. India has been multi-ethnic and multi-cultural for a very long time.

Yeah, and it wasn't unified, i'm sure I can apply various races to various cultures, I just don't know the cultures in question

Very, very broadly speaking, you're going to be looking at a priest/ruler-caste, a knight/warrior-caste, and then all the subdivisions of other people, plus people who are outside the caste system entirely due to being foreign (or not Hindu). You can interpret those into whatever classes you like.

Well divine casters are at the top, but where do Arcane, Primal (I play Pathfinder, but Druids, Witches, and Shamans use Primal Magic, a different form) and Psions come in. Is their a truenaming tradition in India?

Just remember that modern stereotypes will not apply. Pre-1700, India was one of the wealthiest parts of the world.

Oh I know, i'm an ancient history scholar, just not India. Don't worry, we won't have massive hafling filled Shanty towns or the East Indian Dwarf Company coming in

[BayardSPSR]

Yeah, and it wasn't unified, i'm sure I can apply various races to various cultures, I just don't know the cultures in question

Let's see... IRL, the biggest concentration of population is along the Ganges (and to a lesser extent the Indus). Historically, it had dozens of kingdoms, and was at different times the heart of the Mughal and Mauryan Empires. Within it and around it Bengal, Punjab, Rajasthan, and Kashmir probably have the most distinct identifiable cultures today. South India is very much a different animal, as are the less-developed tribal regions (which have a bit of a Native American vibe for me).

It's hard to describe quickly... To put it in context, I think India might have more official languages than the EU does.

Well divine casters are at the top, but where do Arcane, Primal (I play Pathfinder, but Druids, Witches, and Shamans use Primal Magic, a different form) and Psions come in. Is their a truenaming tradition in India?

You could probably give each of those traditions a separate caste - maybe without a clear hierarchy between them. Truenaming I don't know about, but I'm not aware of such a tradition existing IRL or in Indian mythology.

Shaman or Druid-like stuff can probably be found in the tribal societies, so they might be marginalized by default. Arcane might be limited to practitioners from your Persia-equivalent. Psionics could be associated with your ascetic guru-types. All possibilities.

Oh I know, i'm an ancient history scholar, just not India. Don't worry, we won't have massive hafling filled Shanty towns or the East Indian Dwarf Company coming in

Oh - one more thing. I'm not sure to what extent you've worked with this, but family should probably be a very big deal.

[Thrudd]

Still getting through the links. one of my players lent me Green Ronin Mindshadows I don't know if that would help. Ok, some new issues ahve been races


1) How do the D&D races (Haflings, Elves, Kobolds, Lizardfolk Dwarves, Gnomes, Orcs, Goblinoids, Giants, Ogres, croosbreeds, humans, etc) fit into an Indian style game. In my world the Gnomes are Greeks, Orcs are Germanic, Hobgoblins are Japan, Lizardfolk are Egyptian, Goblins are Persian, Elves are various Chinese groups, Dwarves are JewsArabs, Giants are Scandneavian, Bugbears are Goths, humans are Romans, haflings are Punic, etc, s should i have indian cultures for all of these races or draw upon other races

2) how do we fit the classes in this setting? I'm sure we can do something with the Caste system their? But which classes. I am not talented at homebrew in the least, but i'm sure some exist around their, and what classes do i want to use

3) If avatars walk around, how powerful are their? How much can they influence the world?

Rakshasas and Nagas are definitely Indian. You could possibly go with Yuan Ti, but they might be better as Central American/South American. It sounds like you've pretty much assigned all the primary D&D humanoid races. If there are any common ones you haven't used yet, you could put them in there.

I would personally not put your faux India in the time period of active avatars. The Vedic epics and the heroic avatar personas are a little more epic than D&D/pathfinder is meant for, I think. I would have them as history already. There are supposed to be several thousand years between incarnations, after all.

I would not worry about equating classes with the castes, too much. While some classes obviously would tend to fall into certain castes, I don't think it needs to be set in stone. The religious/Brahmin caste would definitely have a high proportion of clerics, wizards, and psions, maybe even druids and shamans. This is not the ruling caste, but the spiritual leaders and teachers of philosophy and religion. These are the people everyone looks to for answers and wisdom, including the warrior/ruler caste. So any class or person who could occupy the position of sage, ascetic, hermit, wise-man, priest, philosopher/teacher, would be the Brahmin caste.

[CowardlyPaladin]

How is India pro family in a way that is different than every other ancient society? By which I mean, what is the tradition.

Ok, reading through bits of Indian Mythology, some notes that might be useful


1) Their are seven hells, six heavens, and Earth itself. I haven't figure out how you can have heaven and hell if you believe in reincarnation

2) The Danava seem to be like Indian Fey. Since in my world I already have many species of Fey, i'm might be able to fit these people in. My fey are tied to specific months, and luckily I havn't yet mapped out which fey go for which month.

3) In D&D the Asuras are a CG/CN race of Good Outsiders who have a bit of an "ends justifies the means" mentality, and are more ruthless than any other Celestral race. In Indian mythology, they are sort of "anti gods", beings of mischief and evil. Since I already have the D&D Asuras, I"m not sure how to mix that. Also Asura handle social details while Devas handle comics/natural phenomena. Again not sure how this works

4) The Asuri are female Asuras, who are kinda different except they are not....no i don't know what that means

5) IN my game Rakshasas and Suras are beings of Evil and Good respectively who reincarnate as mortals, rediscover their powers, and eternally fight each other. They are almost (but not quite) impossible to kill permanently, and every generation a new one is born, so their numbers have grown...well alot. They are eternally warning. I don't know how that fits in Indian mythology except I do know that in my world Rakshasas have a MASSIVE Variety of forms.


I don't know enough about the individual indian cultures to assign races yet, but I have some ideas on classes

Shamans are for the more tribal Indian clans, and are looked down upon by the "Civilized" states

Witchs are remote casters who keep to themselves or live in small villages

Psion are more like monks, constantly living in temples and perfecting themselves. Like what i've heard Gurus are like, but I"m going off old Titin comics so maybe I shouldn't make assumption

Clerics, Favored Souls, and Oracles are Priestly classes, I don't really know Indian Clerical traditions


Wu-Jen, Shujena, Monks, Druids, Martial Adepts, Sha'ri and other "Ethnic" classes I don't know if they fit in this culture, mabye if I Knew more


Shadow Casters, Truenamers, and Binders could be ALOT of fun but I don't know enough about the tradition yet

[Thrudd]

How is India pro family in a way that is different than every other ancient society? By which I mean, what is the tradition.

Ok, reading through bits of Indian Mythology, some notes that might be useful


1) Their are seven hells, six heavens, and Earth itself. I haven't figure out how you can have heaven and hell if you believe in reincarnation

2) The Danava seem to be like Indian Fey. Since in my world I already have many species of Fey, i'm might be able to fit these people in. My fey are tied to specific months, and luckily I havn't yet mapped out which fey go for which month.

3) In D&D the Asuras are a CG/CN race of Good Outsiders who have a bit of an "ends justifies the means" mentality, and are more ruthless than any other Celestral race. In Indian mythology, they are sort of "anti gods", beings of mischief and evil. Since I already have the D&D Asuras, I"m not sure how to mix that. Also Asura handle social details while Devas handle comics/natural phenomena. Again not sure how this works

4) The Asuri are female Asuras, who are kinda different except they are not....no i don't know what that means

5) IN my game Rakshasas and Suras are beings of Evil and Good respectively who reincarnate as mortals, rediscover their powers, and eternally fight each other. They are almost (but not quite) impossible to kill permanently, and every generation a new one is born, so their numbers have grown...well alot. They are eternally warning. I don't know how that fits in Indian mythology except I do know that in my world Rakshasas have a MASSIVE Variety of forms.


I don't know enough about the individual indian cultures to assign races yet, but I have some ideas on classes

Shamans are for the more tribal Indian clans, and are looked down upon by the "Civilized" states

Witchs are remote casters who keep to themselves or live in small villages

Psion are more like monks, constantly living in temples and perfecting themselves. Like what i've heard Gurus are like, but I"m going off old Titin comics so maybe I shouldn't make assumption

Clerics, Favored Souls, and Oracles are Priestly classes, I don't really know Indian Clerical traditions


Wu-Jen, Shujena, Monks, Druids, Martial Adepts, Sha'ri and other "Ethnic" classes I don't know if they fit in this culture, mabye if I Knew more


Shadow Casters, Truenamers, and Binders could be ALOT of fun but I don't know enough about the tradition yet

Don't know if we can really answer the first question without getting into actual religion. But suffice to say, you get to heaven or hell the same way you would in normal D&D, by your good or bad deeds(karma) in life. There is just a range of good/bad which sometimes results in reincarnating into a lower earthly lifeform. Go any lower than the lowest type of earthly animals, and you reincarnate into one of the hells as a rakshasa or some other evil spirit. Go higher than human, and you reincarnate into one of the heavens as a deva or some other angelic being. Even beings in hell can fix their karma and reincarnate upwards again, and beings in heaven can go down again.

I would just ignore the Indian mythology regarding asura and rakshasas, then, if you already have used those terms for other things. Incorporate what you've already created into your fictional India. Maybe the battle with Rakshasas is well known in India, and is a prominent concern of the rulers there.

[Beleriphon]

I would just ignore the Indian mythology regarding asura and rakshasas, then, if you already have used those terms for other things. Incorporate what you've already created into your fictional India. Maybe the battle with Rakshasas is well known in India, and is a prominent concern of the rulers there.

Yeah, that sounds good. Raksashas as a prominent concern seems good for Not-India. Even common folk might be in on it, instead of claims of being consorting with demons that weird guy down the street is actually a weakling raksasha.

[endoperez]

About the caste system - reincarnation into different bodies depending on your karma could be a part of the caste system when there are so many fantastic races to choose from. It could end up being very strict and very racist (towards fantasy races), and might show the caste system in an extremely evil light.

According to wikipedia the caste system wasn't originally very rigid, and people could move from one caste to another during their lifetime. However, even so, all members of a specific race would be judged according to that race's standing in the culture's eyes. If kobolds are part of the untouchable caste, then a kobold of a higher caste would be, to them, an exception, and by having proved his worth he'd not be reborn into a kobold in his next life. The act of being a kobold (or orc, or centaur, or elf, whatever) would be a big part of how a person would be judged.

You should decide how far you're willing to go with that, with your group.