How to rationalize evil?

[AttilaTheGeek]

I want to set up a good guy who goes more and more off the deep end until he, and the players, realize he's actually become completely evil. "For the greater good" is one way, but what are some others?

[Vitruviansquid]

"I've done so much good for the world, isn't it time for the world to give a little back?"

[Mystic Muse]

"When the cruelty that was inflicted on me comes back full circle to its originators, why are they the victims?"

[Tengu_temp]

Justifying more and more evil acts as something he's doing for the benefit of his people.

Righteous retribution - he's just striking back against evil that was done to him.

He does what he has to because circumstances/some specific bad guys forced him to.

Play Spec Ops: The Line for a great example of how someone well-meaning can go completely evil, while still thinking he's doing good and deluding himself by blaming everything bad that happened on other factors.

[kyoryu]

"For the greater good"

That's probably been used to justify more evil than anything else. People who are willing to break a few eggs to make an omelette never seem to think they should be one of the broken eggs.

[Mastikator]

Seeking out evil to do justice turns into bloodlust and revenge. That's one other that doesn't involve "the greater good" but still turns good into evil.
Then you can do an inverse "greater good" thing, where a bunch of small independently good deeds lead up to some great evil which he's forced to embrace.

[Ravens_cry]

Before any of this, I'd work this out with the player in question, because messing with a player character like this without their consent smacks of the worst kind of railroading.

[TuggyNE]

Before any of this, I'd work this out with the player in question, because messing with a player character like this without their consent smacks of the worst kind of railroading.

It sounded to me like an NPC, but maybe that should be clarified.

[VariSami]

"I have not changed - I remain righteous. It is the world that no longer agrees with me, and it is the world that should be punished for its sins."

[Spiryt]

Without details on what one is exactly doing and how it's really hard to tell much, possibilities are countless....

Is he someone with position of any serious power, or just a dude?

Is he running a bank/cantor, or is he a mercenary?

[endoperez]

What if the guy starts out thinking he's "not evil", instead of good. It can be difficult to think of yourself as a good guy if you do bad things. If he accepts that he's not a good guy, but that he's doing everything he can to achieve a good goal... now that's something.

I mean, it's a good goal, something the players want to achieve too. Even if they abandon the guy's plan, they would want to achieve his goal.

[Hjolnai]

Perhaps he has loyalties within his family which drag him step by step away from the path of Good - coming to the aid of a cousin who is attacked repeatedly, gradually seeing that the attacks are justified, as his cousin is evil (not obviously so) - but he can't just refuse his aid to family.

By the time these loyalties are cut, his moral compass has been dragged decidedly southward. He can no longer see the difference between the forces of Good fighting to stop his cousin from <insert evil act here> and the violence his cousin did himself.

[Berenger]

Let him perceive traditional good deeds that fail or backfire.

For example:

1. A charitable cleric is robbed and left to bleed to death while in the slums to distribute bread and hope amongst the poor. Lesson: Low-life scum does not deserve charity. Let them starve.

2. A noble knight murdered in his sleep by a spiteful enemy whose life he spared in a duel or battle. Lesson: Mercy is a weakness. Kill them all.

3. A famous artist and universal genius is burned on the stake or torn to shreds by an angry mob for advocating peace with an enemy race, liberation of slaves or another progressive idea. Lesson: Various.

4. A known criminal is released due to procedural errors, his high social standing or open bribery / intimidation of the judge. Lesson: Don't trust laws and authority. They are useless. You have to be judge, jury and executioner in personal union and may do anything you deem necessary (this last one is mainly chaotic, but can turn to blatant evil quickly by arbitrary and excessive "punishments").

[Amphetryon]

Breaking Bad, eh?

"I realize my time here is limited, and I must do what I can, while I can, to assure that my family is secure when I'm gone."

[Ashtagon]

We do what we must, because we can.

[nedz]

Several, all beginning with "I" for some reason.

• Insanity: the guy just loses touch with reality.
• Ideology: the guy focusses on one idea too much; until the ends justify the means.
• Innocence: It's not his fault, it's the fault of the victims. Various sub-rationalisations.
• Ingratitude: "I sacrificed so much to help them, but I never got any gratitude. When I needed help, where where they ? They'll pay for my help now."

[Prince Raven]

Requires DM co-operation: Force him to make hard decisions, where there is no clear right answer, constantly. Have him fail. Make him angry and bitter. Then have him face some form of adversity that he cannot defeat without resorting to evil, with such dire consequences that he has no choice. Seal the deal with some sort of demonic pact for the power to win, power that corrupts him so that he becomes that which he once hated.

[Adanedhel]

Personal favourite; Fighting fire with fire.

[SethoMarkus]

We do what we must, because we can.

For the good of all of us except the ones who are dead...

[AKA_Bait]

Slowly increasing the level of "punishment" meted out on wrongdoers over time until the reaction is out of all possible proportion to the crime itself. Each step can be justified with "well, obviously the last time wasn't enough of a deterrent to keep this sort of thing from happening again."

[JeenLeen]

I think the best character like this is one who was originally good (maybe a little cruel against evil, but good). He still acts basically the same, still has the same values, but he's started to see those he use to associate with good as evil, or maybe he's seeing the root of evil to be society as a whole.

So he says he's willing to do what society calls 'evil' in order to fix society. The real evil is the corruption, starvation, etc. that society fosters. So he has to purge it all. He's still good, still working for good, and the end result will be a better world.

(Note that this is not exclusive with insanity or ideology, as noted by nedz. Indeed, it may rely upon it, but I think a more compelling character will be sane.)

[Sith_Happens]

"You're either with me or against me." Probably the single mindset with the greatest potential for justifying evil.

[Rhynn]

"Evil" people who are not on the Ted Bundy level have a goal, and are willing to go further for it than is moral. Values become secondary to goals. Walter White, Vic Mackey & Shane Vendrell, any real-world political example you care to think of...

What the goals are isn't that relevant, frankly.

The rationalization is pretty much universally "this has to be done," "this is the only thing I can do," "I can't give up now," and so on. You give yourself up bit by bit, and once you see how far you're gone, it's too late, and you have to try to come out on the other side... but odds aren't good you will emerge the same, if at all.

Play Spec Ops: The Line for a great example of how someone well-meaning can go completely evil, while still thinking he's doing good and deluding himself by blaming everything bad that happened on other factors.

That game messes with your head so bad. I didn't even think about firing into the air... it is amazingly tightly-crafted, up to and including the loading screens that start mocking you in less and less subtle ways as the game goes on. ("Do you feel like a hero yet?")

The Shield and Breaking Bad are also great examples of how this sort of "justifying evil" thing gets more and more out of control, and the protagonist gets more and more inextricably wrapped up in the wrongs they've done.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

"I must be strong to fight evil."

[Hyena]

"I have no choice. Either I have to make hard decisions, or everything was for nothing."

[Morgarion]

The Shield and Breaking Bad are also great examples of how this sort of "justifying evil" thing gets more and more out of control, and the protagonist gets more and more inextricably wrapped up in the wrongs they've done.

I think Walter White is a great example of rationalizing evil behavior to make yourself out to be a good guy. The best part is that it's hard to really pinpoint precisely when he becomes evil. I guess that might have something to do with the nature of evil and how insidious it is.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Walter "Heisenberg" White. End of thread.

[Dr. Yes]

How do you rationalize a descent into evil? Be a player character. You'll be slaughtering tribes of sentient creatures and defiling ancient tombs before you know it.

[ScubaGoomba]

For an after-the-fact justification, also consider Ozymandias from the Watchmen.

[SquidOfSquids]

Make the character blame himself for an action that had horrible unintended consequences. Then have the character feel like he needs to do everything possible to "fix" his mistake. Pretty soon, you'll have the character falling straight down the classic slippery slope of evilness.

Basically, take Vaarsuvius and change the details.