League of Legends LII: Sin of the Blind Monk

[InstinctsKill]

Is she up on the PBE already? She looks like a lot of fun! I agree that Riot has been putting out a few too many ADC's lately, but I won't lie that Jinx might seek to be one of the main ones I play. Based on all of her steroids though, I'm guessing that she either gets nerfed soon after release, or she ends up getting tweaked quite a bit before her release.

Speaking of permabanned though, am I the only who thinks we need 8 bans instead of 6? I mean, there's quite a few champs these days.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

I forsee some heavy tweaks in Jinx's immediate future, yeah.

As for bans... They bumped the number from 4 to 6 a ways back for that reason. Now that there's another 30 or so champs available, it certainly feels like 6 bans aren't quite enough sometimes.

[Eldariel]

Bans aren't that simple a thing though. Competitively, they're used strategically and too many bans makes it really, really hard for a player to master enough champions to basically have anything to play if enemy focuses bans on that one player.

On the other hand, it's true that 4 bans for 40 champs isn't quite the same as 6 for 110 or whatever. However, dealing with balance issues goes a long way towards shoring up the need for extra bans just out of numbers too.

[Artanis]

I think I saw the answer on Reign of Gaming, but it's for only the first rocket attack. So you can get in a quick single rocket, but after that your Attack Speed drops back to normal.

On that note, is there a good place to see the pick/ban rates of the champions?

[Antonok]

On that note, is there a good place to see the pick/ban rates of the champions?

Here's the site I use.

[9mm]

sooo... when I ever I get back to being able to league, I'm learning Jinx.

[Olinser]

On that note, is there a good place to see the pick/ban rates of the champions?

I generally use lolking.

You can also search players there if you were curious what rank any player in one of your games was.

[Joran]

Bans aren't that simple a thing though. Competitively, they're used strategically and too many bans makes it really, really hard for a player to master enough champions to basically have anything to play if enemy focuses bans on that one player.

On the other hand, it's true that 4 bans for 40 champs isn't quite the same as 6 for 110 or whatever. However, dealing with balance issues goes a long way towards shoring up the need for extra bans just out of numbers too.

I wonder which champions mid we'd see with 8 bans. Alex Ich resorted to Gragas in a decisive game 3 because all the other assassin-ish champions were banned or picked.

Maybe the resurgence of Lux?

[McDouggal]

Sorry guys, after the interweb "repair" I've been getting pings going randomly from 90 (20 under normal!) to 730 (WTF CHARTER). This is making games, well, unplayable.

I've been ****ing around in Mass Effect to burn time while Charter figures out what they ****ed up. And yes, it is happening with other platforms as well; it's not just with LOL.

Recaiden or Qwerty, if you want lead on Inversion, say the word. I'll transfer it to you (although I do want it back when I have a stable connection again).

[Qwertystop]

Not sure what I'd do with it, the team's at 9 already. Is there anything to do with leadership other than add/remove players?

In Jinx news, I love how many exclamation points she's got.

[Eldariel]

I wonder which champions mid we'd see with 8 bans. Alex Ich resorted to Gragas in a decisive game 3 because all the other assassin-ish champions were banned or picked.

Maybe the resurgence of Lux?

Oh, there isn't a lack of champions. It's just champions that fit the comp and that the player is practiced in that is the problem.

[efdf]

does jinx's ult splash the execute damage too?

[Olinser]

Oh, there isn't a lack of champions. It's just champions that fit the comp and that the player is practiced in that is the problem.

Pretty much.

4 bans each means that for pro matchs (and any match where you are aware of your opponents before hand), every single player has to be proficient in at a minimum FIVE champions, and honestly should probably have 6 or 7. If you only know 5, and your opponent knows which 5, by banning 4 he essentially is picking your champ for you. Or if you know 5, your opponent bans out 4, and then picks your 5th, you're stuck on a champ you aren't proficient with.

Just too many targeted bans, tbh. And then you have the problem if both sides decide to use their bans on the same role - you could conceivably have 8 champions banned out for a single role!

I think it's fine right now.

[Cogwheel]

In Jinx news, I love how many exclamation points she's got.

Ahem.

UPGRADE!!!

[Qwertystop]

Ahem.

UPGRADE!!!

Great, so Heimer has three. Jinx has five.

[InstinctsKill]

Pretty much.

4 bans each means that for pro matchs (and any match where you are aware of your opponents before hand), every single player has to be proficient in at a minimum FIVE champions, and honestly should probably have 6 or 7. If you only know 5, and your opponent knows which 5, by banning 4 he essentially is picking your champ for you. Or if you know 5, your opponent bans out 4, and then picks your 5th, you're stuck on a champ you aren't proficient with.

Just too many targeted bans, tbh. And then you have the problem if both sides decide to use their bans on the same role - you could conceivably have 8 champions banned out for a single role!

I think it's fine right now.

But wouldn't that promote exactly what Riot wants: a wider selection of champs chosen by pros in competitive play? I mean, when it comes down to it, they are professional video gamers. They should be able to play more than just a handful of champions proficiently. Yes, they are going to have their one or two that they are really good with, but there's no reason they shouldn't have to up their game. Personally, I think it'd make it a lot more interesting for this very fact.

[Dusk Eclipse]

^I agree, I don't know about you, but I got bored of seeing Corki in almost every match in the world series (I haven't seen all matches, but the ones I saw someone always picked Corki if he wasn't banned),

[Laudandus]

It's not like a pro player doesn't learn a bunch more champions because they're lazy. The more bans, the wider champion pools have to be. The wider champion pools have to be, the worse each player is on each champion. The worse each player is on each champion, the lower the overall play level in tournaments. I prefer watching higher-level play.

Corki being broken is a separate issue.

Riot has also stated that the more bans exist, the more of strategy moves to the pick phase, and they want more strategy to remain in the gameplay itself. This sounds reasonable to me.

[Olinser]

^I agree, I don't know about you, but I got bored of seeing Corki in almost every match in the world series (I haven't seen all matches, but the ones I saw someone always picked Corki if he wasn't banned),

Corki, Shen, Zed and Ahri all being above 90% pick/ban for this world's isn't an issue with too few bans.

It's an issue with certain champions needing to be balanced.

After you take those 4 out of the equation, the next group you see are Zyra, Sona and Elize at about the 75% pick/ban, then Thresh, Aatrox, Orianna and Lee Sin in the low 60's, and so on. So still a high pick/ban, but not up to that ridiculous "Ban it or pick first"!! level.

And you see it in the statistics. The bans are all being used on the same group of champions.

Thresh, Kassadin, Zed and Ahri already have ridiculous ban rates. You want to see them approach 100% ban rates in ranked games? Add in another ban on each side.

If there is a problem with the variety of champions being played, its because a few champions need a nerf.

Once Corki is taken out of the equation, there is pretty good variety in what AD's have been played.

[Wolf_Haley]

Man people too focused on what champs are being picked instead of the level of play, if next worlds was to still have the same champs being played i"d be down. THe level of play is that impressive.

[NineThePuma]

So.

What does the thread think is the appropriate response to "I know you said no to me playing Karthus top, but I'm going to do it anyway even though you locked in a top who can't jungle very effectively" is?

Cause I'm not ashamed to admit that my response was to set Veigar up and try to get him to 1000 AP.

[Godskook]

So.

What does the thread think is the appropriate response to "I know you said no to me playing Karthus top, but I'm going to do it anyway even though you locked in a top who can't jungle very effectively" is?

Cause I'm not ashamed to admit that my response was to set Veigar up and try to get him to 1000 AP.

I feel like I'm missing some critical details that would flavor my response.

[ex cathedra]

^I agree, I don't know about you, but I got bored of seeing Corki in almost every match in the world series (I haven't seen all matches, but the ones I saw someone always picked Corki if he wasn't banned),

The answer to the Corki problem is not to have Corki banned every game, it's to balance him to a point where he doesn't need to be pick/banned every game.

[Eldariel]

Honestly, Corki is really good, but also overrated right now. Yes, he's good, but he's still not a lategame hypercarry, and he still gets outscaled if he doesn't get ahead early, and he's best later in a physical-heavy composition since his damage is quite heavily magical.

Many teams have picked champs like Cait, Vayne & Varus over him even when he's been available, to good effect. Ashe is also a great champ for laning vs. Corki and for providing a great lategame carry. Corki probably benefits a bit too much of the current Triforce but overall, the champ isn't quite as dominant as the hype would have him.


Ahri is a separate case where people just pick Ahri 'cause she's a great laner (has no real counterpicks), mobile and still has good single target (and AOE; both ulti and Q hit AOE) burst. She existed for the longest time with no problem; currently she's highly valued for her ability to punish map rotations but that's in no ways unique to Ahri, and I think this is colored more by the mid players in Worlds teams mostly being assassin-players rather than the class being intrinsically superior (also, Zed's stupid but that's a whole separate issue and mostly has to do with how his ulti percentile multiplier scales alongside his W percentile multiplier which kinda leads to stupid number multiplication lategame).

And yes, the thesis "But teams with assassin mids qualified so assassin mids probably have a degree of advantage over non-assassin mids!" has some merit. But honestly, these teams (aside from SKT, where the mid is so good he'd wreck face with any champs) have been around for a long time and have been performing for a long time; I don't feel the thesis has too much merit overall.

[Artanis]

One thing to consider is which champions are picked/banned simply due to being really good vs. which ones are picked/banned due to the metagame.

For example, if Champion A is awesomesauce on toast and Champion B is literally laughably bad BUT completely shuts down Champion A, then Champion B could wind up with a high pick rate. Should Champion A get nerfed for otherwise fall out of favor though, Champion B would disappear.

===

On a completely unrelated note, which should I buy first: Corki or Tristana? They're probably the only carries I'll be able to afford anytime soon.

[Winthur]

I'll just leave this here since I'm uberhappy :3

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mcdougal, i played leona almost exclusively during the last few games

we yaoi now?

[Maryring]

Don't buy Tristana. You can get her for free by liking Riot on Facebook.

She's really fun to play as a champ though. One of my favourite ADCs.

[Olinser]

One thing to consider is which champions are picked/banned simply due to being really good vs. which ones are picked/banned due to the metagame.

For example, if Champion A is awesomesauce on toast and Champion B is literally laughably bad BUT completely shuts down Champion A, then Champion B could wind up with a high pick rate. Should Champion A get nerfed for otherwise fall out of favor though, Champion B would disappear.

===

On a completely unrelated note, which should I buy first: Corki or Tristana? They're probably the only carries I'll be able to afford anytime soon.

You should not buy Tristana - or Alistar.

You can get both of them for free by liking them on facebook, and following their Youtube feed, respectively.

Instructions are here: (I just googled it - can't remember if they're right or not its been a long time) - http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com....php?t=2758091

[Anarion]

I'm curious to see what the finalized ward changes end up being for the next season. I think that how vision ends up working will go a long way towards either keeping assassins at the top or making them much less useful.

Also if Riot makes it harder to 2v1 effectively and makes laning phase last longer, that would have a big effect on the strength of roaming assassin champs.

On a completely unrelated note, which should I buy first: Corki or Tristana? They're probably the only carries I'll be able to afford anytime soon.

Buy Corki, get free Tristana, play Tristana because she's way more fun.

[MCerberus]

Had a really, really weird ranked game today

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Everyone just sort of shuffled into roles based on preference. I ended up top on Renekton. We needed something beefy for the teamcomp (we talked about the comp). First blood was given up in an unfortunate 1-2 exchange. We just decided to try and farm up then. I was against a Kennen, and that top lane went exactly how it should shake out, dead tower but I was able to come out a kill up and get tanky.

Mid game runs around, and we just start wrecking stuff. They tried to get a 3v1 mid in exchange for a dragon we took. I counter-roamed. Nocturn ulted in after I engaged. 3-0 win, two towers.

After that it was a grind to the win. We had me and Janna peeling heavily for our only-one-death carry. I did the tank thing diving taking all the burst. We pinged and talked and kept things positive. At one point we managed to outmaneuver two towers and a dragon in exchange for them finally getting me. 4-2-10 (I dove in front of a hook to keep them away from the shutdown bonus for Cait)

I HAD A RANKED GAME WHERE EVERYONE COOPERATED.
It's weird.