League of Legends LII: Sin of the Blind Monk

[ex cathedra]

Jax beats Zed in a duel, Counterstrike + Grandmaster's Might are very strong against Deathmark.

If that assumption is true, then a 97% pick/ban rate means that one of two things is true for virtually every single plan that the highest-level teams come up with:
A) Shen is the best champion in that slot for that plan, or,
B) Shen can wreck that plan badly enough to merit one-third of the team's bans.

other factors are worth considering. who are the most contested mid-lane champions at worlds? Zed, Ahri, Orianna, Fizz, Kassadin. All but one of those champions are assassins and the other happens to be very good against assassins. The strength of an Ahri, Fizz, or Kassadin pick goes way down when playing against a Shen. A list of highly contested junglers doesn't look much different; Elise, Lee Sin, Vi, and Aatrox are all very aggressive.

So I would suggest that it's less "Shen can wreck [virtually every single] plan badly enough to merit [a ban]" and more that you're hugely underestimating how diverse the strategies at the tournament are. Pretty much every mid, top, and jungle player have broadly similar if not often the same champion pools.

[Artanis]

other factors are worth considering. who are the most contested mid-lane champions at worlds? Zed, Ahri, Orianna, Fizz, Kassadin. All but one of those champions are assassins and the other happens to be very good against assassins. The strength of an Ahri, Fizz, or Kassadin pick goes way down when playing against a Shen. A list of highly contested junglers doesn't look much different; Elise, Lee Sin, Vi, and Aatrox are all very aggressive.

So I would suggest that it's less "Shen can wreck [virtually every single] plan badly enough to merit [a ban]" and more that you're hugely underestimating how diverse the strategies at the tournament are. Pretty much every mid, top, and jungle player have broadly similar if not often the same champion pools.

But that's part of what I'm trying to say. You list 7 of the most-wanted champions that Shen severely hampers at the very least. So that's one of the areas to look at for potential Shen fixes - making/buffing some Mids and Junglers that fare well against Shen, but not necessarily against other tanks.

[ex cathedra]

There are lots of junglers and mids that Shen isn't good against, they just aren't assassins.

[Happy Gravity]

There are plenty of picks that make Shen miserable. Pick him first or second in any game above Gold and you'll see them. Hard pushers, lane dominance or ranged harass, are quite hard for him to deal with.

[Joran]

If that assumption is true, then a 97% pick/ban rate means that one of two things is true for virtually every single plan that the highest-level teams come up with:
A) Shen is the best champion in that slot for that plan, or,
B) Shen can wreck that plan badly enough to merit one-third of the team's bans.

A isn't quite true. Shen isn't the best slot in the plan, but he's a benefit to most team comps (he's good in 1v1 and 1v2 lanes) AND he's a relatively safe pick. Ban/Pick phase is a lot about strategy, so many teams feel comfortable in first picking someone like Shen, which reveals nothing about their strategy and allows them to see what the opponent wants to do.

Shen is also someone that's fairly easy to play, been around for awhile, and is generally considered powerful, so all top laners have him in their champion pool.

So, there's other reasons why Shen can have a ridiculous pick/ban rate yet still be considered balanced.

[Antonok]

Gotta love soloq sometimes. Just had to que dodge due to 3 people fighting over top and all 3 of them refusing to play (or go) anywhere else. Then I get threatened with a report if I don't play blitz solo bot _-_

[Anarion]

There are plenty of picks that make Shen miserable. Pick him first or second in any game above Gold and you'll see them. Hard pushers, lane dominance or ranged harass, are quite hard for him to deal with.

I'm not sure that any of those are really that bad for a Shen. Many champions can win a lane against him (I, for one, love playing Kennen against Shen), but Shen still has a significant impact on the game. If he can get out of his vision or his lane opponent doesn't have an interrupt, the ult allows Shen to get his kills/assists in other lanes and help those lanes win. And later on, he still split pushes effectively and can often catch up in farm because of his ability to be clearing waves for much of the game.

Edit: I don't think Shen is unbalanced though. Many teams with him still lose and people can be very good at accounting for the ult or forcing it out and taking advantage of Shen's absence elsewhere. But I do think Shen's impact on a game is very consistent, even when he doesn't do well in lane.

[brutii]

I have actually never dodged a ranked game.

[Legoshrimp]

I have actually never dodged a ranked game.

Have you even played a ranked game?

[brutii]

A couple dozen, at least.

[Forrestfire]

Lies

[Antonok]

I have actually never dodged a ranked game.

Luckily this was just a pre 30 normal. I'm still 1 lvl and about 30k IP away from starting on ranked (probably won't play a ranked game until S4 starts)

[brutii]

Lies

I never said which queue, and I never said which season.

Come on, you me well enough to know I would never offer such an easily checked numerical fact without some sort of trickery to make it technically correct.

[Forrestfire]

I never said which queue, and I never said which season.

Well ok then. Consider me corrected

[Siosilvar]

So whoever finally got the idea of taking ranked threes to gold stuck in my head, thank you. While our strategy of "play what you're best at" (J4 top, Vi/Syndra bot, push everything as 3 always) may not be the greatest, it's probably the most fun I've had in League in a while and even got us a perfect 12/0 game already.

[abadguy]

The moment you realise you incidentally trolled your duo by muting him on Skype

In other news, wow been a GiTP member for 9 years @_@

[Anarion]

Luckily this was just a pre 30 normal. I'm still 1 lvl and about 30k IP away from starting on ranked (probably won't play a ranked game until S4 starts)

I wouldn't dodge that kind of game because I think it's good practice. Let your team fight it out, and work on winning your lane hard. At that level of play, and if you're on a champion who scales reasonably well, you can hard carry the game with a 4-5 kill snowball.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Is there a listing of the Pro Teams around the world?

[Olinser]

I wouldn't dodge that kind of game because I think it's good practice. Let your team fight it out, and work on winning your lane hard. At that level of play, and if you're on a champion who scales reasonably well, you can hard carry the game with a 4-5 kill snowball.

Greatest pre-30 carry I've ever done was on Annie. I was on my low-level guy helping my DOTA friend learn the ins and outs of the game.

Long story short, our team had 52 kills... and I had 48 of them. But the other team had around 35 because my teammates couldn't survive.

At a certain point it got kind of funny - you'd think they would have realized they couldn't take me 1v1 or even 2 or 3v1 at that point, but they just kept throwing themselves at me.

[Eldariel]

Is there a listing of the Pro Teams around the world?

LCS teams in EU and NA, OGN teams in Korea, LPL teams in China & GPL teams in SEA. Those are the big ones. Comprehensive list of sponsored teams, especially in SEA, would be very hard to make but there are a lot. There are some "professional" teams among the qualifier teams in EU and NA but obviously they're not being paid by Riot currently. Then again, neither are any of the Asian teams so eh; a bit nebulous a definition.

Europe
North America
Korea
China
South-East Asia

[PhantomFox]

The wiki has been exploring some Jinx interactions and found one that looks interesting. Jinx and hurricane. The splash doesn't stack with itself but it does stack with the primary attack. And the splash does apply to all hurricane shots. So someone can get hit by the primary auto and the splash from one of the additional shots.

[Antonok]

The wiki has been exploring some Jinx interactions and found one that looks interesting. Jinx and hurricane. The splash doesn't stack with itself but it does stack with the primary attack. And the splash does apply to all hurricane shots. So someone can get hit by the primary auto and the splash from one of the additional shots.

Yea, the LoL forums were calling it OP there for a while until someone did the math and came up with it still not being that great on her.

[Silverraptor]

More Jinx info! Looks like another ADC which makes me a sad pyro panda

Also her passive isn't all that good. Only works on a tower/champion kill.

*Ahem*

Varus.

I discovered today that "delay them while I take this tower, then join you guys" is apparently not something half of the teams I play with know how to do. Same with "siege them with our jayce, nid, and caitlin poke then take the naked inhibitor."

It's like they had a switch in their heads labeled "ALL IN NO CAUTION" and "RUN AWAY AND HIDE" with no middle ground

I know what you mean. I always wish I had 1 other person on my team that I knew they know what they're doing. Maybe we can duo que in the future? Since were in the same division, it could increase our chances.

[PhantomFox]

Yea, the LoL forums were calling it OP there for a while until someone did the math and came up with it still not being that great on her.

How so? Does double damage for as long as something survives nearby?

[toasty]

Is there a listing of the Pro Teams around the world?

Eld already kinda explain this but.

Basically Riot runs LCS, which is in EU and NA. There is also a SEA, Chinese and Korean pro league, though these events are not officially run by riot, they are run by trusted partners. LPL (chinese pro league) is actually run by Riot's parent company, Tencent, so there is that. SEA's pro league (GPL) is run by Garena, who also runs the servers in SEA regardless.

In theory, according to Riot, a pro is one of those players who is in a Pro League, that is, someone in LCS, LPL, GPL, or OGN (Korean Pro League). In reality many "pro" players are not in this league. For instance, Complexity has had a team on their roster that was previously in LCS, but got knocked into "Amateur" recently. However, AFAIK, they still have a gaming house and are still playing entirely professionally.

Furthermore, the difference between pro leagues is a bit nebulous elsewhere. For instance, in Korea, while OGN is the pro league, Najin Blacksword qualified for the World Finals based, in large, on performance at NLB, the amateur league for LoL in Korea. Gamania Bears and Mineski were allowed to participate in their regional qualifiers (They were from SEA) despite not actually being in the GPL.

Basically, there is no good definition, especially internationally. In EU and NA there is a pretty big difference between LCS and non-LCS, especially since non-LCS teams cannot qualify for Worlds. But at the same time, there are certainly amateur players, even in LCS regions, with enough skills to arguably get into the a pro league. But the prop leagues have very limited slots, and, as seen in EU, often times the teams can be extremely close in terms of skill. EU had a HUGE turnover in relegation last split, and I suspect something similar may happen again, though many of the relegated teams are (ATN, NiP) are gonna try to stop that.

[ex cathedra]

Varus.

Varus' passive is also considered to be kinda bad but at least it triggers on minions kills. It lets him last hit and trade more easily in lane

How so? Does double damage for as long as something survives nearby?

"double damage" that doesn't crit, requires 2400 gold and an item slot for only but 70% as, and does nothing in duels? pls. pretending that hurricane doesn't exist is generally the right call.

[Dusk Eclipse]

That is quite interesting (though a tad confusing), I was mostly asking because I know there is a Mexican pro team; but I can't remember how they are called so I wanted to see a listing or something hoping to find them and look for videos or something.

[Joran]

That is quite interesting (though a tad confusing), I was mostly asking because I know there is a Mexican pro team; but I can't remember how they are called so I wanted to see a listing or something hoping to find them and look for videos or something.

Apparently, Lyon Gaming is the team you're looking for. They were formed from the members of Team Majestic.

http://lol.gamepedia.com/Lyon_Gaming

[Antonok]

"double damage" that doesn't crit, requires 2400 gold and an item slot for only but 70% as, and does nothing in duels? pls. pretending that hurricane doesn't exist is generally the right call.

^ pretty much. Along with her AS steroid, its just not enough damage to be worth the cost when theres 20 other things that are more optimal.

To be fair, I do expect to see a lot of soloq jinx's building it for the lulz

[Artanis]

Completely changing gears...


I want to give more thanks, cookies, and brownies to the people who pointed me to the free champions because I am absolutely loving Tristana. She's really "clicking" for me, and any character who regularly exclaims, "Look at the pretty explosions!" is pure Win. I'm having trouble getting a handle on how to build her though, since her passive and Q scream "STACK AD YOU PUTZ!", but her W, E, and ult all scale off of AP. So my (thoroughly) untrained eye sees two different general builds:
1) Tons of AD, plus stuff like crit, attack speed, armor pen, etc. Sit back and machine-gun stuff down with Q, with the other abilities mainly being used for utility. Or...
2) Tons of AP, extra survivability (HP/Armor/M.Resist), and maybe a touch of extra mana. Use W, ult, and if needed E to vaporize a back-liner and then proceeding to pray to God that my W comes back up before I get obliterated in return*.

So I would greatly appreciate advice on which one to go for, as well as a few specifics for each one (particularly items, but skill rotation and pick order, runes, masteries, and summoner spells would also help). Note that I just picked up level 7 last night, which limits masteries and summoner spells for the time being. I also plan to get some runes, but only the ultra-cheap ones until level 20 at the earliest (19 runes x 15 IP/rune = about two games' worth of IP).


*This actually worked really, really well in one game last night, where my 21-1-1 accounted for nearly 2/3 of my team's kills. I am well aware that it is not even remotely representative of a "real" situation (ADC + no escape ability/summoner + wandering off alone = short life expectency ). It was fun as hell though