Half-Dwarves

[Hexa_Regina]

I'm not sure if this has ever been discussed on these forums before, but an interesting character interaction in my real-time gaming group got me thinking. In the core WOTC rules, Humans and almost every other sentient race can cross-breed to some degree...except apparently dwarves. Is there a reason for this or is it just an oversight?

Obviously, dwarves being heavily tradition and family oriented, a dwarf-human couple would face certain challenges in the dwarven community as would the potential offspring of such a mating, but are half-dwarven children biologically possible given the existing rules and information in the core WOTC sourcebooks? I tend to to think they must be since humans are genetically compatable with almost everything else. So, I think I might toy with the idea of making a home-brew half-dwarf race.

What do you guys think? Is it plausible? And if it is plausible, what do you think a half-dwarf character would be like?

[Necomancer]

Half-dwarves don't exist and honestly? Theres no real reason they shouldn't besides having no real niche amonst the races. half-orcs exist as the str based race, and half-elves...Eh, I think they mostly exist because they were one of the original races and continue to be so. People just like half-elves and theres really no place for half-dwarves since the concept isn't popular enough flavor wise and they have no niche to fill.

If you want to play one it would be easy enough. Simply say you're a half breed flavor wise and use either human or dwarven stats. I think there are stats for a half-dwarf species out there but I don't know where and have no desire to go looking all over the net for them. I think they're called mules.

[The Glyphstone]

Didn't one of the old setting have half-dwarves? They were sterile....called Muls or something?

[endoperez]

There are few half-dwarves. Muls of Athas, the Dark Sun campaign setting, are half-dwarf half-human crossbreeds and bigger than either the parent race. As tall as humans, as heavily build as dwarves, often pretty stupid and slow. They are bred for use as slaves or gladiators.

[Fizban]

Half Elves exist because of the classic Elf+Human love Cliche.
Half-Orcs exist because there needs to be a PC dumb strong guy race.

Dwarves really don't seem all that popular in my board experiance, and all the dwarf fluff says they're firm traditionalists, bound to clan and etc.

So baisically: no reason there shouldn't be a Half-Human/Half-Dwarf, but they would probly be increadibly rare. I see it as most likely a result of dwarf orphans raised by humans (or maybe elves since they're longer lived Edit: make that gnomes, good god elves live too long) and thus without the cultural background to inhibit them.

Tanget half-race comments: the comment on humans breeding with just about anything just fixed all those random elf/orc gnome/ogre and etc things: only humans and really magical stuff can crossbreed.
Also: anyone ever considered the idea that instead of getting a half-something you instead get one or the other with just slightly mixed figures. So elf+human equals elf or human, with slightly different ears and build, and etc.

[danielf]

i think that half-dwarves must be a cool race hehehe

[amanodel]

Half-dwarf would be middle hight between, facial hair between, body hair between the two happy parents, in my imagination. They could use either human or dwarf attribute modifiers. But it certainly shouldn't be a psionic race.


On another note, I tried to think about why those mongrel races exist.

Half-elves exist becouse Tolkien said that charming rangers attract 1d4 elf girls, Will save DC 20 to negate the effect. It just got somehow left out from the ranger class abilities. Must be an error in the printing process. Elves are beautiful to humans, of course they want to do them. I can't see any reasons on the elfs' side why they would make it out with a round-eared all-hairy human. If there's a sexual aberration on the elfs' which make them love ugly hairy creatures there would be a race of half-elf half-dwarves too. It's basically alcohol.

Half-orcs exist so that not every barbarians need to be named Conan. Now they can be named Krusk as well. It requires rape and murder, or a lot of alcohol. Very lot. Preferably the first.

Half-dwarves... Ick. Alcohol could solve the situation, too. But only for the human. Dwarves are kinda resistant.

Half-halfings on the other side would be the race that would make sense. They're small and cute, pedophiles in a d&d world could have a hobby like that.

Half-gnomes... Mix the prerequsites for half-dwarves and half-haflings.

Half-ogres... *shudder* Be sure you have a sick wizard nearby to watch this and cast enlarge person on you, otherwise it won't work. A blindness spell or domination also helps a lot. Alcohol does not.

Half-giants. Serious magical assistance is needed and a bludgeoning weapon that deals non-lethal damage also helps.

Half-goblins, half-hobgoblin or half-bugbears? A really drunk human scouting warband after a victory could be capable of such deeds. Or vica versa.

And than would come the goblin-dwarf, ogre-elf and other pairings best not to even talk about :)

(I just get the idea about an high-level enchanter wizard who uses domination and some druidish spells to experience such things. Perhaps even shapechange. It'd freak out my PC'S. What a good plot-hook to have the wizard enchant one of them for his "studies". :) I'm soooo going to use it... )

((Then it comes to wizards and druids shapechanging and hit on their familiars/animal companions. Some things in d&d are just not right.))

[Khantalas]

How come there are humans with Storm Giant bloodlines, anyway? Someone would seriously need polymorph.

And how come half-giants are a psionic race? Does it make any sense? At all?

[Thomas]

Didn't one of the old setting have half-dwarves? They were sterile....called Muls or something?

Muls, yes. From Athas (Dark Sun). They've got the height of humans, the brawn and thick bones of dwarves (this leads to most human mothers and many dwarf mothers of muls dying in childbirth), incredible endurance, no hair anywhere on their bodies, and thick eyebrow-ridges. They're popular slaves and gladiators. They're also sterile, which makes little to no sense, since half-elves aren't. (Half-giants are also sterile, I think; they are/were somehow created, or their creation is/was somehow influenced, by the Sorcerer Kings.)

[AtomicKitKat]

Size matters not. At least, as long as the mother is bigger than either the child or father.

Odd would be Prime Material Anything plus Clockwork Nirvana of Mechanus Anything. Seriously, WTF?

[Signmaker]

Elves and Orcs have the same gestation period, as well as similar anatomy below the equator. Dwarves I have no freaking idea. Same with half-halfings

[Matthew]

It just follows the Tolkien paradigm or, rather, what it is understood to be. I remember my Red Box M.E.R.P. rulebook had Half Dwarves in it...

[pestilenceawaits]

Muls, yes. From Athas (Dark Sun). They've got the height of humans, the brawn and thick bones of dwarves (this leads to most human mothers and many dwarf mothers of muls dying in childbirth), incredible endurance, no hair anywhere on their bodies, and thick eyebrow-ridges. They're popular slaves and gladiators. They're also sterile, which makes little to no sense, since half-elves aren't. (Half-giants are also sterile, I think; they are/were somehow created, or their creation is/was somehow influenced, by the Sorcerer Kings.)

This is correct but the new half giants even though they are heavily influenced by their dark sun predecessors are quite a bit different.

[Mauril Everleaf]

there is a template somewhere on this forum for half-dwarves. just go to the homebrew site and search the threads for half-dwarf. i would do it for you, but im just to lazy. mind you that posting on said thread could be considered threadomancy, so be wary of doing so. i have copied the template into my computer, but its my other computer, so i dont have it with me.

also, ive always considered halflings to be half human half something else anyway. i just want to figure out the stats for a ling. those buggers must be tiny!

also also, in my homebrew, half-gnomes are called halflings. i bumped off the traditional halfling and substituted something new. solved two problems of crossbreeding.

[Thomas]

This is correct but the new half giants even though they are heavily influenced by their dark sun predecessors are quite a bit different.

They're not half-giants, they're half-giants. They've got nothing what-so-ever to do with the Athasian version, aside from sharing a name. They're small, weak, smart, and don't have the fluctuating alignment component.

Size matters not. At least, as long as the mother is bigger than either the child or father.

Size matters a lot. Ask anyone who's given birth what it feels like. If the child is 25% or 50% bigger than human norm, the mother is screwed. Giving birth is dangerous enough with a child of the correct size.

It just follows the Tolkien paradigm or, rather, what it is understood to be. I remember my Red Box M.E.R.P. rulebook had Half Dwarves in it...

Umli. I have no idea where they're from.

[Matthew]

Umli. I have no idea where they're from.

That's them. Apparently an invention of Iron Crown Enterprises.

[AtomicKitKat]

Size matters a lot. Ask anyone who's given birth what it feels like. If the child is 25% or 50% bigger than human norm, the mother is screwed. Giving birth is dangerous enough with a child of the correct size.

I was pointing out that the only size that matters is the mother's, in so far as whether the baby could actually be carried to any term.

[Signmaker]

there is a template somewhere on this forum for half-dwarves. just go to the homebrew site and search the threads for half-dwarf. i would do it for you, but im just to lazy. mind you that posting on said thread could be considered threadomancy, so be wary of doing so. i have copied the template into my computer, but its my other computer, so i dont have it with me.

also, ive always considered halflings to be half human half something else anyway. i just want to figure out the stats for a ling. those buggers must be tiny!

also also, in my homebrew, half-gnomes are called halflings. i bumped off the traditional halfling and substituted something new. solved two problems of crossbreeding.

According to Races of the Wild, Halflings are Pixies infused with parts of the essence of Humans, Elves, Dwarves, and Orcs. But then the gods got ticked at Yondalla for stealing some of each races as it made them weaker, yadda yadda yadda.

[Deathcow]

I think the main rationale with creating half-orcs and half-elves was that orcs and elves are near enough to the basic human body shape that an interbreeding was possible. But then they created half-ogres, so I suppose half-dwarves should be possible. I suggest giving them stats as dwarves, but increase their land speed to 30, take away the ability to wear med/heavy armor without slowing down, and take away ability score adjustments.

Half-halflings and half-gnomes should be right out without some form of magic involved- just mechanically, it doesn't seem like it should work.

Edit: There's also a race in Fiend Folio called Mongrelfolk, that are a mishmash of all the standard races. They kind of suck, though.

[Scorpina]

Half-halflings and half-gnomes should be right out without some form of magic involved- just mechanically, it doesn't seem like it should work.

Seems no worse to me than Half-Ogres, Half-Trolls or Half-Giants.

[Deathcow]

Seems no worse to me than Half-Ogres, Half-Trolls or Half-Giants.

True- I suppose some magic should be involved there, too. While we're at it, how about stats for half-elf/half-orcs, or half-gnome/half-dwarves?

[Scorpina]

...or any 'half-x/half-y' where neither is human, generally.

Half-Elf/Half-Drow always seemed like it'd work to me...

[Mauril Everleaf]

thats why there needs to be "half-" templates for all of the major races. human, elf, orc, gnome, dwarf, drow, duergar, svirfneblin, kobold, goblin, etc. they already have it for some half-species, like dragon and fiend, so we might as well extend the list.

[Indoril]

This thread reminds me of a complication that came up in a campaign of mine about 2 years ago. The question "What happens when an elf and a dwarf mate?" was raised.

After an hour or so of debate (yeah, we really got into it), it was decided that an elven and dwarven couple spawned chimpanzees. Short, lanky, dexterous, strong, and hairy.

[Scorpina]

Oooh, I think I saw stats for Half-Dwarf/Half-Elves once... 'Dwelfs' I think they were called...

[Fizban]

That's why I have just decided that if I ever run a game, the only non-magical crossbreeds will be with humans (and even then only because of the precedent of half elves and orcs).

And how come half-giants are a psionic race? Does it make any sense? At all?

Because apparently the only way for an enlsaved race to ever escape their masters is to evolve latent psionic abilities that couldn't overthrow a fly.

[Indoril]

Because apparently the only way for an enlsaved race to ever escape their masters is to evolve latent psionic abilities that couldn't overthrow a fly.

What about "monstrous strength"? Something tells me a half-giant enslaved via any means other than magic would, after X amount of time, figure out that he's about twice as big and four times as strong as the guy keeping him chained up.

Edit:Now that I have actually reads their entry, I see that half-giants were, indeed, enslaved magically. My bad.

[Mauril Everleaf]

i actually play a dwelf in a campaign. im also getting him made into an erfatar to be seen sometime in the future.

[nothingclever]

That's why I have just decided that if I ever run a game, the only non-magical crossbreeds will be with humans (and even then only because of the precedent of half elves and orcs).

Because apparently the only way for an enlsaved race to ever escape their masters is to evolve latent psionic abilities that couldn't overthrow a fly.

This discussion just gets better and better.

[Hexa_Regina]

Actually, I think that idea about coming up with "half" templates for all the major races is a great idea, although instead of applying it to a standard race you could take two half-templates and stick them together.

What started this discussion in my Scarred Lands evil-party game, one of my players is playing a male Charduni dwarf Paladin while another is playing a female human Cleric from the same society. For a bit of character flavor, the person playing the dwarf decided he wanted to have certain "forbidden predilections" and the Cleric decided to play along. So I decided to co-opt it for a plot hook and have them deal with the wrath of their Church when they get back home. I thought a half-dwarf kid might be a nice touch.