Dysfunctional Rules IV- It's like a sandwich made of RAW failure!

[3WhiteFox3]

Nausea is a mind-affecting ability?

I think he means that attacking yourself (and thus being vulnerable to the attack) would probably require the influence of a mind-affecting ability.

However, I don't agree with his conclusion that the swarm attacking itself would make it vulnerable; distraction isn't an attack, and since vermin have no specific immunity to the Nausea, they should be affected as well. This seems to be a similar situation to the Dread Necromancer's Negative Energy Burst, both have an effect that doesn't distinguish between the origin of the ability and the other eligible victims.

The only reason I can see that the Swarm would be immune would be that Distraction works on creatures that share the square with the swarm, so unless the swarm shares the square with itself, it shouldn't be nauseated. I don't know the RAW on that, but it seems like the Swarm wouldn't be

[Chronos]

Everything can attack itself. Most things usually don't, but it's possible.

[Harrow]

Swarms can be Half-Dragon. I'm not sure if that's truly dysfunctional, but it is kinda weird.

[Silver Swift]

I just wanted to chime in and say that I find this thread endlessly amusing, and I don't even play D&D.

[Coidzor]

Swarms can be Half-Dragon. I'm not sure if that's truly dysfunctional, but it is kinda weird.

If the swarm can be Half-Dragon without the constituent creatures of the swarm being Half-Dragon, that seems pretty dysfunctional to me. And kooky to boot.

[The Viscount]

I feel like there's something against it, but I can't find what. Worst part is that warm entry even says "for game terms treat a swarm as a single creature."

[NeoPhoenix0]

Half-dragon is an inherited template and swarms aren't born, they form from thousands of other creatures. So you can have a swarm of half-dragon things, but not a half-dragon swarm.

On the other hand, is there a ritual that allows you to get the half-dragon template? because that could work on a swarm, or even mob. Or maybe a swarm of hellwasps stayed a swarm long enough to complete the dragon disciple prestige class.

[Andezzar]

Not sure if that has been mentioned before:

The jump bonus is based on the creature's speed, not the movement before jumping.

If a creature has a speed greater than 30 ft. it gets a bonus even on standing jumps.
Alternately a creature with a speed lower than 30 ft. still is penalized even if it did not move to facilitate the jump.

[TuggyNE]

Not sure if that has been mentioned before:

The jump bonus is based on the creature's speed, not the movement before jumping.

If a creature has a speed greater than 30 ft. it gets a bonus even on standing jumps.
Alternately a creature with a speed lower than 30 ft. still is penalized even if it did not move to facilitate the jump.

While that's not entirely sensible, it's at least a decent simplification; if you can only crawl along, surely your legs are not very good at propelling you with swiftness and strength, no?

Or, take dwarves, who always take the penalty: their legs are too short and stubby to really let them jump well.

[The Viscount]

Which is why you have to toss them.

[Chronos]

I'm now picturing a cloud of buzzing insects, with two huge leathery wings sprouting out of the cloud.

[Dimers]

I'm picturing two wings made up of swarm creatures, myself.

The breath weapon doesn't work nearly as well that way though.

[NeoPhoenix0]

I'm picturing two wings made up of swarm creatures, myself.

The breath weapon doesn't work nearly as well that way though.

They make the organs to produce breath weapons out of swarms.

[TuggyNE]

I'm picturing two wings made up of swarm creatures, myself.

The breath weapon doesn't work nearly as well that way though.

Sure it does, the swarm critters each have a tiny low-damage breath weapon that covers about five inches, and they fly past the target and strafe it en masse.

[Gadora]

Rotting troglodytes smell better than living troglodytes. That is to say, they lose the stench ability when they become zombies. (And they're one of the premade zombie stat blocks.)

[hewhosaysfish]

The definintion of the swarm sub-type suggests that a swarm of Tiny, non-flying creatures (like rats) consists of around 300 creatures.

So I am forced to imagine that a Hal-Dragon Rat Swarm would consist of 150 rats and 150 dragons, all scurrying around squeaking.

[Venger]

I don't know, a celestial dire tiger can be pretty nasty. Then there is the celestial horrid tiger to consider.

polymorph can't turn you into stuff with templates on it.

The definintion of the swarm sub-type suggests that a swarm of Tiny, non-flying creatures (like rats) consists of around 300 creatures.

So I am forced to imagine that a Hal-Dragon Rat Swarm would consist of 150 rats and 150 dragons, all scurrying around squeaking.

I was under the impression that it would be 300 scaled, winged rats flying around and clambering over each other

[georgie_leech]

Rotting troglodytes smell better than living troglodytes. That is to say, they lose the stench ability when they become zombies. (And they're one of the premade zombie stat blocks.)

So do skunks, once the fluid they make dries up.

[Gadora]

So do skunks, once the fluid they make dries up.

Fair enough.

[NeoPhoenix0]

polymorph can't turn you into stuff with templates on it.

There, I was talking about a potential animal companion that you were getting rid of. A druid with exalted companion can have the celestial template version of any ordinary animal companion.

Edit: Also, why can't you polymorph into templated stuff?

[Karnith]

Edit: Also, why can't you polymorph into templated stuff?

First, because it'd make Polymorph even more of a rules and book-keeping nightmare, and second because Polymorph is based on Alter Self, which states:

You do not gain any supernatural special attacks, special qualities, or spell-like abilities of the new form. Your creature type and subtype (if any) remain the same regardless of your new form. You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype.

(Emphasis mine)

[Harrow]

That's arguably changed with PAO. But then, PAO is in and of itself a massive dysfunction.

The question here is about whether "changes one object into another" completely overrides all the restrictions on Polymorph. The examples indicate that this is the case, such as by giving inanimate objects hit dice.

But I'm sure you can imagine the can of worms if you actually follow "change one object or creature into another" and ignore the HD and template restrictions normally imposed by Polymorph spells. It would be terrible.

But the example shows the intent was clearly to bypass the HD restriction on Polymorph spells, and there's nothing in the language to mean you can't do the same with the template restriction.

So yes, you should be able to PAO something (anything, actually) into a half-dragon swarm

alternatively, anyone with 10 levels of Dragon Disciple should retain their template even if polymorphed into a swarm

[deuxhero]

Charging and Paralyzed creatures in your path is weird in SOME way.

If "Helpless creatures don't stop a charge." is a specific exception to the more general charge rules, it makes it so an enemy on his feet under Hold Person directly in your path doesn't stop you charging but an ally who has plenty of room to avoid you because your path barely goes through his square DOES and the same enemy would if he was instead turned to stone (despite how much space he takes up and his mobility being the same).

If it isn't an exception, a dying guy doesn't impeed a charge but suddenly does if he is hit by Hold Person.

[NeoPhoenix0]

It's like the polymorph line is a black hole of dysfunction and PAO is it's singularity.

Edit: Hey, that might not be a bad thread title itself. "It's a black hole of dysfunction"

[Silver Swift]

Edit: Hey, that might not be a bad thread title itself. "It's a black hole of dysfunction"

Dysfunctional Rules V- Passing the dysfunction event horizon

[NeoPhoenix0]

Dysfunctional Rules V- Passing the dysfunction event horizon

Brilliant. Love it.

[Svata]

Has my vote.

[Fax Celestis]

Come on, guys, we still have thirty-nine pages before we need a new thread.

Here's an adventure dysfunction: Shadows of the Last War, an Eberron adventure, has a color-based key system for a dungeon within the Mournland. One of the key colors is yellow, and you have to have a yellow key in order to complete the adventure. However, there are no yellow key-rods anywhere within the published adventure, just locks.

And no, you can't pick them.

[Sith_Happens]

Come on, guys, we still have thirty-nine pages before we need a new thread.

Here's an adventure dysfunction: Shadows of the Last War, an Eberron adventure, has a color-based key system for a dungeon within the Mournland. One of the key colors is yellow, and you have to have a yellow key in order to complete the adventure. However, there are no yellow key-rods anywhere within the published adventure, just locks.

And no, you can't pick them.

IT'S DUNGEONCRASHING TIME!

[Snowbluff]

It's like the polymorph line is a black hole of dysfunction and PAO is it's singularity.

Edit: Hey, that might not be a bad thread title itself. "It's a black hole of dysfunction"

Polymorph Any Object a rock -> Star -> Black Hole.