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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Fading Echo: Races

    So, I need some serious revisions on these stats, because these are completely unbalanced. I just want to know how to keep the same basic powers without screwing up the game. Languages are not included because there is only one language in Fading Echo.

    Human

    No Change

    Gnoll

    Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma

    Size: Medium

    Speed: Normal 30ft.

    Monstrosity: Gnolls are Monstrous humanoids of the Shapechanger subtype.

    Blood Fury (Ex): Whenever a gnoll is lowered to half his total hit points, he enters a blood fury. He gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC and CMD, as well as a +1 morale bonus to all saving throws. He may not withdraw from combat while in this state, unless he makes a DC 20 Will save.

    Scent (Ex): A gnoll has the Scent special ability.

    Mockery (Su): A gnoll can use this ability for one minute per Hit Die per day. He calls forth the inner beast, changing his shape into that of a hyena. In this form, he may not use abilities that require hands or speech, and gains a base land speed of 50ft. Any class ability that enhances his speed still applies.

    Moonfolk
    Ability Scores: +2 Intelligence

    Size: Medium

    Speed: Normal 30ft.

    Living Construct: Moonfolk are Constructs of the Living Construct subtype.

    Natural Armor: Moonfolk have a +2 natural armor bonus.

    Spellweaver (Sp): Moonfolk can cast one spell, at will, from the Black Mage's Least Incantation list. The caster level for this spell is equal to half his Hit Dice. At sixth, he may add another one to his repertoire. The moonfolk uses his Intelligence score for these spells.

    Crystalbound (Su): Moonfolk may not use Dusk Magic, but they need not carry a casting crystal for Black Magic. They are also immune to one type of energy, which cannot be sonic damage.

    Crystalline Form (Ex): Moonfolk are vulnerable to sonic damage.

    Unbound (Su): Becoming Unbound is a full-round action. When a moonfolk becomes unbound, he deals damage to any one creature equal to his total hit points. The unfortunate side effect is that he shatters and dies, leaving only a casting crystal.


    Scarecrows

    Ability Scores: +2 Strength

    Size: Medium

    Speed: Normal 30ft.

    Living Construct: Scarecrows are Constructs of the Living Construct subtype.

    Natural Armor (Ex): Scarecrows have a +1 natural armor bonus.

    Silent as the Grave (Su): Once per day, as a swift action, a scarecrow can us this ability. He makes no noise, and leaves no tracks or scent, for 5 rounds/level.

    Undying (Su): Scarecrows gain a +2 bonus to saves against all spells of the necromancy school, and is not affected by aging effects.

    Frightening (Su): Scarecrows gain a +1 bonus to the DC of any fear effects they cause, as well as a +2 bonus to Intimidate checks.

    Shadar-Kai

    Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Constitution.

    Size: Medium.

    Speed: Fast 40ft.

    Sons of Dusk: Shadar-Kai are Fey of the Dusk subtype.

    Bound in Chains (Sp): Shadar-Kai are automatically proficient with the spiked chain.

    Dance of Dusk (Ex): Shadar-Kai gain a +2 bonus to Perform (dance) checks. Perform (dance) is always a class skill for the Shadar-Kai.

    Emulated Counterspell (Ex): Shadar-Kai gain a +2 bonus to saves against spells, incantations, and spell-like abilities.

    Dark Disciple (Su): A shadar-kai gains a +1 bonus to the DC of all Dusk Magic spells he casts.
    Last edited by Thunderfist12; 2013-10-23 at 05:15 PM.
    May the gods watch over your battles, friend.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Fading Echo: Races

    ... wow, nothing? So are they really balanced?
    May the gods watch over your battles, friend.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Fading Echo: Races

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderfist12 View Post
    ... wow, nothing? So are they really balanced?
    In a word.....no. For starters, nobody will want to play human, since they are weak as hells in comparison. The Shadar-Kai's Emulated Counterspell is INSANELY powerful for a counterspell build, and just genally OP for any other caster. There is no listed duration for the Gnoll's hyena form, which is a problem waiting to emerge. All but the human are close to a +1LA, with the exception of the Shadar-Kai which are at least +1...

    Basically, balance is waaaay out as far as I'm concerned... O_o
    All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Fading Echo: Races

    That's why I'm asking for help - These are unbalanced, and I want to make them all LA +0 without eliminating the concepts of their abilities. Tweaking the actual mechanics is what I need help with.
    May the gods watch over your battles, friend.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Fading Echo: Races

    I'm coming at this post completely cold, not knowing anything about your homebrew. Just looking at the mechanics, these are my thoughts:

    Gnoll:
    Blood Fury essentially gives them a crippled class ability, which is definitely overpowered. I would probably change that into something like: will save needed to withdraw from combat below half hp, a morale bonus for fear saves and either a dodge bonus or a flat +1 to hit, possibly only against the creature that knocked them below half hp. Have it persist as long as they're below half and still conscious, and it should be fine.

    Mockery is, again, a crippled class ability. What to do with it depends on how you want the ability to function: is it primarily a combat ability or an RP ability? If it's meant for combat, consider just giving them natural attacks during use and making the change in appearance merely flavour. If you want it mostly for RP, have them change shape physically, lose their "requires hands" abilities, and gain the movement speed of a hyena. Also, put a limit on how long it can be used: if it's meant to be used in combat, rounds/HD would be good. RP, you could go minutes or hours per HD.

    Moonfolk:
    Mostly balanced, except for Spellweaver. Define the spells it gives, and probably make them 0th level instead of 1st. I'd suggest looking at the gnome spell-like abilities for an idea of what to give a non-LA race for spell-like abilities.

    I'd also consider giving them a stat penalty to go with their stat bonus, or removing the bonus entirely.

    Scarecrows:
    Flavour-wise, a bonus on strength to a scarecrow amuses me. Straw isn't very strong. But, stat bonuses can be subjective. I would again suggest a penalty to go with the bonus (to Int, perhaps, in homage to the Wizard of Oz? )

    Frightening is honestly worth an LA by itself. Consider replacing it with a bonus to intimidate checks, and/or a +1 Will DC on all fear effects they cause.

    Living Construct, Natural Armor, and Undying all boost a scarecrow's ability to survive. I would suggest removing the Natural Armor (again, straw isn't very strong anyways).

    Undying needs a change, but I'm not quite sure what to suggest. I think removing the immunity to necromancy might help it, but if that's a flavour aspect you're set on, maybe a bonus to saves against that school instead.

    Shadar-Kai:
    As it sits, a solid LA+1. I personally wouldn't consider it awful to have one race with an LA, if it fits the RP that they're stronger than the other races. Since to said you wanted them all at no LA, however, my suggestions:

    I've found giving a damaging attack to any race instantly sets them above and beyond. I would suggest turning Bound in Chains into something that is non-damaging as a result - just going off the name and the description, something similar to a racial bola attack might work better (still as a spell-like ability, though).

    Emulated Counterspell is essentially a feat, and I'm not sure there's a way to lower the power it gives. If SR wasn't strong as it is, I'd suggest that instead. I'd recommend reworking it entirely, go back to the concept of why you want them to have that ability and try somethign else. Bonuses to skills or saves instead, perhaps?

    Giving a +2 to caster level is a large boost to power, even if it is only for specific classes. As with Emulated Counterspell, I'd recommend going back to why they have this ability in the first place and try another way to give it to them. Alternatively, you could reduce it to a +1 bonus, but only on Dusk Magic (which I'm not familiar with to be honest, so I don't know if that's possible or if it would be too strong).

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Fading Echo: Races

    See Fading Echo, in the World-Building section, for Dusk Magic fluff (I'm not on mechanics in that thread yet). And everything fluff-wise to do with this, really.

    I'll get to modifying these. I guess Shadar-Kai could be LA +1. They are the Firstborn after all.

    Also, scarecrows are bramble, wicker, and steel, not straw. Hence the abilities and Str bonus.
    May the gods watch over your battles, friend.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Fading Echo: Races

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderfist12 View Post
    I'll get to modifying these. I guess Shadar-Kai could be LA +1. They are the Firstborn after all.
    Had some more time to think about this at work, and read a bit of your world write-up.

    Bound in Chains could be turned into treating a spiked chain as a martial or simple weapon. Emulated Counterspell into the dwarf's +2 on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects. Dark Disciple into a +1 DC on all Dusk spells they cast. Those are all abilities core classes have, perfectly fine for a non-LA race, and allows a player to specialize in either melee or spellcasting as they want. Maybe give them a Perform (dance) skill bonus, depending on how important you want that to be.

    It strips them quite a bit of their flavour, I know, so I'd almost recommend a racial paragon class for them, or racial substitution levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderfist12 View Post
    Also, scarecrows are bramble, wicker, and steel, not straw. Hence the abilities and Str bonus.
    Ahhh! This makes more sense. Suppose I shouldn't assume scarecrows are made of straw when discussing living constructs, lol.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Fading Echo: Races

    How are the races now?

    Also, does anyone know how to set up a table for classes?
    May the gods watch over your battles, friend.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Fading Echo: Races

    Spellweaver: Can they cast any of the Least Incantations, all the time? Or do they have to pick one incantation and stay with it? If it's the first, clarify and it's fine. If it's the second, I'm not sure that being able to change what they can cast fits, logically. You might consider just letting them cast it more powerfully (caster level is full HD instead of half).

    Bound in Chains: I'd recommend splitting the proficiency and the Perform (dance) parts of this into two separate abilities for clarity.

    Otherwise looks good - though I'm only now thinking to ask, is this PF or 3.5? Just looking at the ability score adjustments and it occurred to me that the way you had them before would've been fine for a PF campaign, but I assumed 3.5 and recommended that way...

    This thread shows you how to make tables, especially for classes.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Fading Echo: Races

    Pathfinder...

    *facepalm*

    So they were fine before...
    May the gods watch over your battles, friend.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Fading Echo: Races

    So, changes were made, clarification added, and if anyone thinks they still aren't balanced, speak up.

    Please, it would be most appreciated.
    May the gods watch over your battles, friend.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Fading Echo: Races

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderfist12 View Post
    Pathfinder...

    *facepalm*

    So they were fine before...
    *cough* Sorry about that... >.>

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