Revamping Level Adjustments

[Fax Celestis]

Level Adjustments are frequently not worth it, since they don't provide HP or saves. LAed characters are frequently more fragile than their non-LAed counterparts.

So: what would you say to a houserule trading LA for Racial Hit Dice, granting saves and HP as per a creature of the type? Does that balance too far backwards?

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Dragon and Outsider HD are fairly good and certain special abilities could benefit greatly from this.

However, generally I think that if it is used with caution on a case by case basis it might go a long way towards balancing LA races.

[Fax Celestis]

It would be of Racial Hit Dice of the type possessed by the creature prior to any templature. So a human receiving the Vampire template would get Humanoid (Human) HD, not Undead HD.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I think you have to be even more careful if you apply this to templates. (I am less worried about monster races)

The DC against the special abilities of the Vampire increase by 4 and the Humanoid BAB is better than the Undead.

[Fax Celestis]

So applying this to races with LA would be decent, but not to templates. Makes sense to me. I've always thought that RHD was a better idea for monster races anyway.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Let us know how your results turn out if you play test this.

[Dausuul]

Level Adjustments are frequently not worth it, since they don't provide HP or saves. LAed characters are frequently more fragile than their non-LAed counterparts.

So: what would you say to a houserule trading LA for Racial Hit Dice, granting saves and HP as per a creature of the type? Does that balance too far backwards?

It really depends on the race with the level adjustment. For example, ogres have a level adjustment because they're big and ungodly strong and tough as nails; these benefits stack with the benefits of class levels, so replacing them with racial hit dice would make ogres overpowered. On the other hand, the drow level adjustment is based on a few spell-like abilities, extra ability bonuses, and spell resistance, none of which really stack with anything to speak of (well, SR increases with character level, but I think SR is severely overrated in calculating LA).

[Draz74]

It might be balanced but anti-flavorful if you used this on non-combatative monsters with large LA, like the Rakshasa, Nymph, or Mind Flayer. They'd end up with a LOT of HP.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

I guess the real problem is that having any LA, regardless of what it is, makes a spellcaster that much less powerful due to getting behind in spellcasting levels. It's also sort of a problem for skill monkeys due to the max skill ranks being lower, but ultimately not much of a deal for any melee class. A sad reminder that melee classes are too balanced towards gameplay for their own good against the might of casters.

[NullAshton]

Perhaps half level adjustment converted to hitdie, rounded down? +1 level adjustment races would remain the same, while higher adjustments would be reduced slightly in exchange for hitdice.

[JaronK]

It's a bad idea. Any outsider with LA would become super powered, as outsider HD are quite strong. I think monsterous humanoid has similiar issues, so the Goliath would go from "not bad low LA cost fighter" to "holy crap" pretty quickly.

JaronK

[Whamme]

Level Adjustments are frequently not worth it, since they don't provide HP or saves. LAed characters are frequently more fragile than their non-LAed counterparts.

So: what would you say to a houserule trading LA for Racial Hit Dice, granting saves and HP as per a creature of the type? Does that balance too far backwards?

I'd be more inclined to make up a new type of Hit Die. Call it the "Level Adjustment Hit Die' and give it poor _everything_. 2 skill points, poor saves, d4 HP.

It would make everything with LA stronger, but less so, yes?

[CockroachTeaParty]

I like that idea of crappy LA HD. It's like replacing LA with levels in Commoner. It would make LA races ever-so-slightly less squishy. I might give that a try one of these days, I say I say.

[Fax Celestis]

That is a rather decent idea, yes.

[AtomicKitKat]

Meh. Everything with an ECL >3 right now, could do with a reduction of LA on the order of -1 LA per 2 racial HD. Not perfect, but would make some things look better. Hobgoblins could do with tweaking to bring them to ECL 1 races as well.

[Jade_Tarem]

Or you could go with an automatic reduction in LA as the campaign improves, but only for monsters, not templates, and not anything with "scaled" abilities that improve with levels. Let me give you an example. I've wanted to play a Joystealer for some time. I just like them flavor-wise. But they have 6 HD (of Fey, no less) and a whopping +4 LA, meaning that you have to be in a lvl 10 game to play one - with no class levels. Now we break down that LA -

- +2 for Incorporeal
- +2 for 1d4 CHA drain touch attack.

Now we look at the Half Celestial Template, also a +4 -

- +2 for "Good" Flight
- +0 for scaled special abilities
- +2 for, as far as I can tell, Scaled DR, Scaled SR, Scaled Acid/Cold/Elec Resistance, +4 Str, +2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Int, +4 Wis, +4 Cha.

What's more, there's a thing in the BoED that lets you get that down to +2! Although it goes up with HD.. I've never really understood that.

So here's the problem - Incorporeality and the drain attack are pretty powerful, but they can be defeated by two spells and then I'm just a PC at -4 HD. If the Level adjustment were dropped as the campaign progressed, That would make things easeir on me. It makes sense that as the abilities become less useful vs. Everything, the LA would go down. Half-Celestials, on the other hand, are always going to have a use for that +4 Con and that Holy Word special ability that they just picked up, and so should proabably remain the same.

Of course, I'm not familiar with the LA buyback system and may have just described it. If I did do something that silly, let me know and I'll delete this post.

[Fizban]

LA Buyback

I like the crappy hit die idea personally, then use LA buyoff to change them into normal levels.