Need advice on a BBEG...

[Twisted.Fate]

I'm sending my party into a dungeon crawl of sorts, and I need some advice on what to do for the BBEG (read the whole post before you reply, please!).

My party is composed of the following 4th-level characters (who will be 5th if they put in some effort before they hit the dungeon):

Half-elf rogue, human scythe-wielding fighter, human cleric 2/fighter 2, human cleric (summoning focus, of all things), elf sorcerer.

They have proved surprisingly adept at kicking the crap out of most of what I've thrown at them, so I want to make this BBEG a challenge. I'm definitely willing to kill one or two characters (My campaign is set up in a way that I could [won't necessarily] swing resurrection as a reward if they kill the guy, and if they agree to do some favors for the Church of Pelor). I don't want a TPK, and I don't want to kill more than two of them. However, I also don't want him to die in two rounds.

I set up two versions of my BBEG, one at 6th level, one at 7th. He's a cleric of Nerull with a pet Slaymate (from Libris Mortis; when necros use metamagic around them, the cost for the metamagic spell is one level lower than usual) and the Death and Deathbound domains (I know Nerull doesn't normally have Deathbound, but in my world he does). Moving him to 7th level gives him 4th-level spells, which is the part that makes me wary. (Dismissal of my cleric's summoned creatures, Inflict Critical...not to mention the Spell Compendium, which I don't have on me, but I will be using). Among his feats are Fell Weaken (-4 to Strength when a damaging spell hits; +1 spell level).

Other monsters in the dungeon include:

A trio of hobgoblin guards (2 2nd-level Barbarians, 1 4th-level druid), various zombies in singles or pairs, a pack of 10 kid zombies (Statted basically as halflings. Not supposed to be a challenge - more of an "Oh my god, what are they doing to the children?!"), and a vampire spawn.


So the question I pose to you is: would you, as a DM, throw the 6th-level version or the 7th-level at them?

[Athenodorus]

Deathbound domain something non-SRD? (I can't find it.)

[Ramza00]

Deathbound domain something non-SRD? (I can't find it.)

It is in libris mortis.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

If they have a cleric, use the level 7 version. Otherwise, stick with the level 6 version. Clerics can make combating undead very easy.

[Twisted.Fate]

The guy isn't undead. Sorry, I should have made that clear. He's a regular human. (With some fairly ungodly stats...I always roll disgustingly well when I make NPCs).

[Lord Sidereal]

I'd say warlock. CLassic Warlock BBEG with maybe two zombie trolls.

[Thomas]

7th-level, definitely. Possibly 8th-level, but I'm nasty like that, and my players expect a challenge.

[Twisted.Fate]

I'd say warlock. CLassic Warlock BBEG with maybe two zombie trolls.

No no. The question wasn't what do I make my BBEG - it was specifically which version of my BBEG do I throw at my PCs? He is most definitely a cleric, and does not have any pet trolls.

The cleric + Slaymate combination is fundamental to the story, and that absolutely has to remain in place or the entire narrative will crumble like wet sand.

[Stormcrow]

Go the seven. If you get in there and feel you've gone too hard you can allways stop casting fourth level spells. :P

[Fat Daddy]

I say go 7th. He is the Big Bad Evil Guy and not the Medium Bad Evil Guy after all. Epic battles leave lasting memories. I don't remember the villains we defeated handily but I can still describe the battles from the early 80's where the BBEG was mopping the floor with the party until we pulled it out by the skin of our teeth. I'd say give him a BUNCH of low level mooks to occupy the meat shields too.

[Twisted.Fate]

I'd say give him a BUNCH of low level mooks to occupy the meat shields too.

Depends. He's kind of set up to take out meat shields. His damaging spells are all Fell Weakened (he gets it free, since he's got a pet Slaymate, and their Pale Aura makes metamagic cheaper), and the first person he's going to hit will of course be the meat tanks. He's also got Night Shield (I think that's the name?) equipped, which when cast gives him 20% concealment and, as an added bonus, nerfs Magic Missiles.

I may give him a werewolf zombie or two. (Trust me, it makes sense in the context of the campaign, and they're not that powerful). I also had an idea for a spellstitched hunter werewolf zombie, but I think that's a bit much (spellstitched is MM2, hunter zombie is LM).

[Maclav]

IMHO, go with the 6th level version and give him some body guards!

See, this is where you bring in the zombie trolls! Its never a bad time for zombie trolls after all. Perhaps a dozen archer skeletons too - with cover and good firing positions. Single big CR encounters are always too easy to deal with since the single BBEG only gets one action / round. Your party has the ability to kill this guy before he even gets to act if they get the right circumstances.

[Twisted.Fate]

I may go with the zombie bodyguards, but I'm definitely not doing archers. Doesn't quite fit the BBEG's style. Maybe I will do that spell-stitched hunter zombie werewolf...hm. And have it harass the PCs on the way to the dungeon...then run off when they try to pursue...only to return at the necromancer's right hand later on.

Now that...that is a thought.


Mua ha ha, and all that good rubbish.

[Halcyon_Dax]

Needs more Lazer Eyes.

[Seffbasilisk]

Pump his AC as high as you can, make it so when the fighter swings, his misses. (A lucky hit and crit can take down a good fight. I had a barbarian level 3 win initiative, charge, and take out a Kyton (chain devil) in a single crit. It was supposed to be a long battle.)

Lots of littles.

A human disguised to look like him, while he's disguised to look like a minion in the background. Cut out the minion who's speaking for him's tongue, and have him pretend to speak while the BBEG speaks through him using spells. (Maybe a fixed-location magical item?) The party will all focus on holding off the little guys and killing the BBEG as swifty as possible, when they take him down, have the BBEG use a Hand of the mage to jerk whatever magical goodies he had the minon have on himself to pretend to be the BBEG (maybe a shiny helm? Bracers or armor? A weapon? Etc. Jerk it back to him (standard action) he puts it on (move action) and monologues (for a second time), maybe some of the 'dead' corpses around him were really animated zomies or skeletons told to 'play dead' and they rise up and tell the Goodie-two-shoes that he was just toying with them, they're all doomed, etc etc.

[HempRope]

This Slaymate sounds weird, since clerics don't metamagic spontaneously... something fishy in there.

But anyways, go seven. Or higher. A CR 6 is no threat to a good ECL 5 party, especially if they're set up for him.

[mikeejimbo]

I say make him 7, but change his stats. You don't have to roll randomly for NPCs.

[Hurlbut]

Question: How in the heck do you get a Zombified Troll?

[Norsesmithy]

Start with a dead one?

[Hurlbut]

Start with a dead one?

Dunno, what is more likely, a burnt, charred skeleton or somewhat intact rotting carcass of a troll?

[oriong]

If they're 4th level, and they're going through that lot of enemies before they face the cleric then make him 6th. They'll likely already have been knocked around quite a bit, and that vampire spawn especially could make them very, very ragged for the final battle.

If they wipe through the guards with no sweat, or if they have time to heal-up and recover before facing the BBEG then sure go to 7th, but otherwise 6th is best.

[Thomas]

Question: How in the heck do you get a Zombified Troll?

You... kill it, then animate it? Try regenerating slay living.

[Twisted.Fate]

I say make him 7, but change his stats. You don't have to roll randomly for NPCs.

I like to. I can always change them if necessary, and usually it's not. I rolled two natural 18s on this guy. ^_^

This Slaymate sounds weird, since clerics don't metamagic spontaneously... something fishy in there.

It's part of the story. The BBEG has been working with the Vampire Spawn to capture children and experiment on them. His aim is to mass-produce Slaymates for use by his Evil Necromancer Cult (=D), because mechanically...they're awesome. See next para.

Mechanics-wise, it lets him metamagically prepare any necromancy spell at a level one lower than the metamagic would require. (So, Quickened Inflict Light Wounds would be prepped at 4th level, rather than 5th). Not bad, for stuffing a dead kid in your backpack.

Seffbasilisk: THAT...that is beautiful. I may well do something like that. Maybe disguise the Werewolf zombie as the necromancer...hm.

[Ninja Chocobo]

Do Zombie Trolls keep Regeneration? The MM's a little vague on that subject.

[Thomas]

Do Zombie Trolls keep Regeneration? The MM's a little vague on that subject.

No it's not.

"Special Qualities: A zombie loses most special qualities of the base creature. It retains any extraordinary special qualities that improve its melee or ranged attacks."

They lose regeneration.

[Ashheart]

I know the Slaymate and love the story behind it.
You put it to good use with this BBEG because of this Fell Attack thing, beautifull combo btw.
I would go with the level 7 version and stop making a big thing about it.
Keep usig your BBEG as a full level 7 cleric but after one or two of the party drop dead change it so he doesn't use level 4 magic. His spells could run out or he's been given some extra power by this cult of his just for this battle.
That way you have a strong and challenging encounter and you can keep the body count around 2/3. I would give him some shielding and some dispels for the summoning your cleric will probably be doing.

If I were you I'd use the vampire spawn as a shield (their pretty hardy and don't die after being hit a few times with a scyth) to keep from being flanked by summons.

Anyway Good Game.

[Yakk]

Lots of littles.

Have a Macguffen. How hard is the slaymate to kill? Maybe a toy that lets this relatively low-level cleric animate so many undead?

The BBEG knows that a lucky shot can kill him -- a single sneaking rogue with an arrow of slaying, for example. As such, an intelligent BBEG avoids direct conflict. This can help your players.

The BBEG should waste a large number of spells on protecting himself. Death Ward before he engages (and if surprised engaged, that should be the first thing he wants to cast), wind wall (to block ranged attackc), a defensive position that makes it hard to charge him. Glyphs of Warding defend most avenues of approach (200 gp per Glyph, each one doing 3d8 damage (and -4 str) or any up-to-L 3 cleric spell.

A Glyph of Warding with a Sonic Burst (1d8 damage no save), with the fell metamagic is -4 to strength (any save?), and a fort save or be deafened. Place a few layers of that between the BBEG and the entrances, and nobody non-etherial is gonna sneak up on the BBEG.

Sanctuary is always good. This makes direct attacks on the BBEG difficult. The BBEG only has to figure out ways to indirectly attack, like animating dead.

(an evil cleric worth his or her salt should have the skellitons or corpses (preseved!) of undead nearby. A L 7 cleric, under a desecrate region, can animate up to 28 HD in a single casting. (note the cleric has a limit of 28 HD total, but the odds are the party will have killed some undead before entering the boss room).

A boss room might look like:

#######O#######
###############
######|||######
###///^^^\\\###
---|||---|||---
...|||...|||...
...............
...............
...............
   ...   ...   
   ...   ...

Where # is a raised section, the ||| /// and ^^^ are ramps, ... is a lower section, and the entraces are via the 3-wide tunnels at the bottom.

Put some traps at the entraces to the room, and more on the ramps/edge of the platform. Have death ward up before the players reach the BBEG, and cast wind wall once they arrive. The bottom area can be defended with random grunt zombies. The top area would have some skellitons/preserved zombies ready to be animated at a desecrated alter.

The ramps could either be guarded by multiple zombies, or simply left enticingly open. When you charge up them, you start eating Glyphs of Warding (unless you are undead, a worshipper of the evil deity, or say the secret word), some loaded with sonic bursts (no save damage), some with acid damage, some with fire damage. All of them drain your strength by -4 when they hit you.

Once the players are the closest people to the zombies down below, the evil cleric casts animate dead and spawns another 28 HD of zombies and/or skellitons. These take up a defensive position around the cleric.

A Sanctuary spell is well worth it to delay direct attacks on the Cleric until the Cleric is ready to fight. Not as important as wind wall or death ward... It might not be worth the action, but might give the players more time to mop up the guards down below.

Remember, the cleric can summon 28 HD of skellitons/zombies, send them down to the bottom, then summon another 28 HD. The skellitons down below become uncontrolled, but they are likely to attack the nearest living beings. For the price of a L 3 spell, that's pretty nifty. (max HD of a single creature is 20. Skellitons are more efficient than Zombies WRT undead HD -- your base creature tends to be stronger, and has stronger natural attacks)

[Twisted.Fate]

I want to thank everyone for the great advice It's been a lot of help formulating my evil plans. I really wasn't expecting so much - thanks all!

Now: the evil plans themselves.

The conflict will occur in the Necromancer's Evil Laboratory (TM), two floors beneath a rotten old chalet in the mountains, which the PCs will have to explore. The PCs will work out the sneaky puzzle in sublevel 1, find their way to basement level 2, slay the Spawn, and take its lab key. Then, they will burst in, only to find a pack of animated zombie kids (One of my PCs is a father whose child was kidnapped and killed, so it'll hit him hard) that they have to either kill or destroy to progress. I'll probably leave a pile of dead bodies around in the lab (the Spawn's former prey, or things that got Too Curious and haven't been experimented on yet).That mean-ass Werewolf zombie will be lying in wait in the next room with the BBEG in case they get too uppity.

In the meantime, the BBEG will hear the ruckus from within his inner sanctum and begin to prep himself. The zombie kids are failed experiments anyway, so he doesn't care if they get destroyed. He'll come out with Night Shield and any of his other buffs (he has some, but I can't remember which offhand, and I don't have his sheet on me).

He'll deliver the usual monologue - "How dare you defile my work, pawns of the light!" etc etc, then he'll get to the killundating. When he gets to within a few inches of his life, I'll have him Sanctuary and shout for the werewolf zombie. The zombie will roll on in and put the smack down on the PCs. He'll heal it (and himself, as he is a Tomb-Touched Soul) a bit, and when the beastie starts to look a little shaky, he'll exit stage left to the Plane of Shadow, where my PCs definitely can't follow (Members of my world's evil cult have safe passage in the Plane of Shadow, and there's a reasonably low-level spell in the SC that lets him hop over there). Depending on how I feel about their chances, he may or may not animate the pile of bodies before leaving.

How does that look? I like the way it gives me options. If the PCs get lucky and start owning within two rounds, he can call the zombie while he heals up. On the other hand, if they keep rolling 1s and he's stepping all over them, I can skip the werewolf zombie and/or have him hold off casting 4th-level spells.

[Yakk]

The Sorc has high will. So expect the sorc to be able to engage the Cleric, dispite sancutary.

Sorc attacks:
Ranged Touch:
Scorching Ray (~14 fire damage)
Acid Arrow (~10 damage over 2 rounds)
Ray of Enfeeblement (3 to 8 str damage)
Melee Touch:
Touch of Idiocy (1d6 int/wis/cha damage)
Reflex:
Web (reflex, then DC 20 str)
Grease (reflex or fall, balance (flat footed rules!) to walk)
Fort:
Summon Swarm (DC 11 to 12 or be gimped)
Will:
Glitterdust (will or be blinded)
Hypnotic Pattern (will or be gimped)
Laughter (will or be gimped)

Cleric spell attacks:
Ranged Touch:
Searing Light (9 average, 14 vs undead, 18 vs vamps etc)
Will & Touch:
Bestow Curse
Will:
Silence
Command
Enthrall
Fort:
Sound Burst (fort or 1 round of stun)
Fort&Touch:
Contageon[Evil] (save or lose, say, 1d6 wis)

Reflex saves and Touch spells are the best against a cleric, generally.

A L 4-5 sorc has +4 will save.
A L 4-5 cleric has +4+wis mod will save.
A L 2/2 cleric/fighter has +3+wis will save.

A L 6/7 cleric will have about 40 to 45 HP.

...

Basically, you might want to run a simulation fight (you run everyone) between the characters and the BBEG.

[Twisted.Fate]

The Sorc has high will. So expect the sorc to be able to engage the Cleric, dispite sancutary.

Heh. I was going to say "Well, I'll silence him," but then I realized that doesn't really do the necromancer any good at all. I'll make sure the sorc is unconscious before the necro goes sanctuary. The poor sorceror only has like 15 HP anyway, max. (The major weakness of my party members has been their really, spectacularly awful rolls when rolling HP). One or two Inflict Lights and he's down for the count.