Reimagining Fantasy Religions

[Kolonel]

I like role-playing clerics. And other kinds of divine magicians, too, in any fantasy game.
The descriptions of the gods give me a good baseline, which I can then expand, bend and twist to create an interesting character.

But most of the people I know don't like to play religious characters. Even if they play someone, who is by definition a servant of a god, they tend to underplay the religious aspect.
{{scrubbed}}

But when everyone chooses non-religious characters, I think that a bit of that true fantasy atmosphere is lost.

However, what if a setting had gods who can appeal to players?
Not vague concepts like goddess of water, god of light and magic, nor divine tyrants like the WH40K's God-Emperor, but gods who the players (21st century human beings) can relate to. Divine beings, whose description the players can read and say "Cool! I'd like to play a worshiper of this one!"

I know it sounds implausible at first, but I already have a few ideas:
(I have not named the gods yet.)

The Goddess of Hedonism:
Philosophy: Life is for pleasure, have a good time, always be bold, never regret!
Her followers are: charismatic, never intimidated, always looking for adventure, sexually very open and they always do what they want, not what they were told.
Think of: the Toreador from Vampire the Masquare; Daario Naharis, or the people of Dorne from A Song of Fire and Ice.

The God of Investigation:
Philosophy: the truth is out there, you have to find it! Explore the world, and see the strange! The more you know, the better you are, don't let fear, superstition or easy answers divert you from the right path!
His followers are: observant, inquisitive, relentless, never manipulated and keen on exploration.
Think of: Sherlock Holmes; other detectives; classic mystery story heroes.

The Trickster God:
Philosophy: nothing in the world has divine purpose, life is a great joke, you either laugh at the world, or the world will laugh at you. Maybe both.
His followers are: deadpan snarkers, disillusioned, unpredictable.
Think of: Tyrion Lannister; the Comedian from Watchmen.

The God of Honor:
Philosophy: Those with no past are lost. Those who abandon their brothers are lost. Those with no goals in life are lost. You may already feel lost. Hang on tight, because it's not gonna get any better!
His followers are: idealistic at heart, but act cynical; tough, but compassionate; have strong moral codes, but never accept written laws. They never abandon their fellows.
Think of: Mandalorians; the Brotherhood without Banners from A Song of Fire and Ice.

The God of Mastery:
Philosophy: you have in yourself the potential to be the best. The question is: how far are you willing to go for it?
His followers are: competitive, skillful, motivated. They take pride in what they do, and they like to be admired by everyone else.
Think of: martial artists; legendary craftsmen.

So far, this five.
I may later work them into a setting, but now I'm just looking for ideas.
What kind of god's believer would you like to play as?

All insightful comments are welcomed.

[Anxe]

Why is Greco-Roman polytheism less engaging than the system you just outlined? It has more gods about more things that are more interrelated. Plus, everyone already knows them and doesn't need to learn a new pantheon for your campaign.

Hedonism = Dionysus
Investigation = Athena
Trickster = Pan
Honor = Zeus
Mastery = Apollo

Your system is fine. Having fewer gods in your pantheon can definitely by an advantage. I'm just not clear why you're dismissing Greco-Roman specifically.

As for religion being acted out by players, I've seen that vary heavily among players. Mostly, the "actor" players will do their religion even if they aren't playing Clerics while other types will not.

[Another_Poet]

I think it's a good way to present it.

(I agree that this is not different from historical polytheism, but I'll leave that topic alone.)

I also think you could make it more engaging not just by revamping the gods, but by reimagining the religious practices.

Devout prayer and worship is not necessarily fun to roleplay, and unless you are a Cleric there's no mechanical incentive to do so. A fighter gets the same powers whether he goes to the temple daily or makes armpit farts whenever the cleric talks.

I can think of two possible directions to amend that.

1. More engaging practices. What if a common form of religious devotion is to throw a large festival for a community, town, or neighborhood? This is something the players could enjoy doing after a successful adventure, and it potentially has a part that everyone can play. It's even fun for the non-religious PCs. Variants could be: organizing a tournament, a concert/music festival, or a huge drunken bacchanalia. All of these events would have an aspect of charity to them, either feeding the poor (banquet) or raising money for alms (tournament, etc).

2. Folk practices with benefits. Iron Kingdoms' Five Fingers book did a great job of this. Around the city of Five Fingers were a number of shrines, both official and unofficial, to various saints and scions. If you did certain folk practices at certain sites, you could gain a bonus, one-use power or other benefit no matter what class you are. Some were easy like fasting all night, others were expensive. The powers varied accordingly.

Just thoughts.

[Kolonel]

@Anxe: Yeah, you are right, I shouldn't dismiss the greco-roman polytheism.

I think my idea has more to do with presentation than actual content.
If we say Dionysus is the son of Zeus, god of vines, with feasts in spring and autumn, no one will care, but if we show what great time his followers are having, he becomes a hundred times interesting.

As you pointed out, having fewer gods helps too.

But the way it is now, (there may be a setting which is different, but I don't know about it) even the "actor" types don't really do their religion. (Unless they are clerics, of course.)
At least in my experience.

@Another_Poet:
Great ideas.

[NoldorForce]

By default D&D doesn't use Greco-Roman polytheism, but rather henotheism. See, the latter is the state where you worship only one god but acknowledge the existence of others; this is why the default character sheet has the field "Deity", as a singular word. (We need not get into debates of nomenclature, but henotheism is somewhere between monotheism and polytheism in terms of philosophy.) In "standard" polytheism you'd worship many gods simultaneously according to their purviews, sort of like how Eberron treats the Sovereign Host/Dark Six. In particular, the assimilatory nature of the Sovereign Host (ie, the belief that all other divinities are forms of the Nine) derives from a similar Roman practice.

To expand on what Another_Poet was saying with suggestion 2, the Romans had a religious concept known as do ut des - "I give that you might give". Basically, religion was considered very much to be a contractual thing, with proper practice and knowledge thereof given great importance. (Superstitio was their word for excessive devotion or religiosity, in fact.)

[BWR]

IME it varies. I know of one player who loathes clerics and religions at all and cannot and does not want to get into the mindset of playing that. Druid is fine, even if she doesn't play it as anything but a collection of powers, but she seems incapable of thinking the same way about clerics.
The rest seem to be pretty average. They'll remember to mention their patron deity a couple of times a session and will stick to the basics of their cred.

A lot of the problem I think is lack of hard information about dogma, rituals, holy days, public perception etc. Understandably, in the core books there's a limited amount of space for such information. Some of the religion books presented in various settings expand greatly on this. "Faiths and Avatars" for FR did a lot to liven up clerics, including giving just about every god a specialty priest, notes on fashion, church structure, sacred times, church titles by level, etc.

Just saying the existing ones are boring and making up new ones doesn't really solve the problem. Adding more information to the existing ones does.


The only really novel reimagining of D&D deities I've come across was the Dragonstar setting (D&D in spaaaace! With lasers!). In short, over the centuries that space flight had made visiting new worlds easy, people noticed that there were tons of gods, and they were the same basic gods, regardless of their local names. A god of war, a god of healing and nurture, a god of justice, a god of chaos, a god of destruction, etc. The various religious scholars debated and came to the conclusion that these local gods were just interpretations of greater beings, archetypes of philosophy and fundemental actors of reality. They started worhipping these greater ideas directly, not just through the previously known names and rituals. And it worked. Thus the Unification Church was born and became the accepted religion in the Dragon Empire. While it might seem a bit bland and flavorless on the surface it works very well for D&D. You don't have to worry about clerics playing bland casters, because their god is bland as well. The casters can be as colorful a personality as they want, with whatever strange rituals and whatnot they want because their god will likely accept it as a personal expression. The gods don't act like a spoiled brat family or retarded jerks, they are distant and beyond lesser squabbles, yet they grant powers to clerics and obviously do wish for certain acts to be performed/avoided.

[The Oni]

-snip-

Those are fairly common in a lot of settings. My own setting has four out of five, in fact.

That's not to say you don't make a good point about some of the gods being outdated/unappealing, although, this might have to do with sheer scope having diluted the focus on each individual god.

[Slipperychicken]

Greco-roman style polytheism is not that engaging

You can have the same kind of stuff as before, but now you can also throw in temples where all recognized gods are worshiped (many potential encounters there), and "priests of the gods" who worship the whole pantheon. That's in addition to "specialized" worshipers who prioritize some gods over others, for whatever reason.

Most PCs can just say they worship "the gods", and pray to whichever ones they feel like at the time, and not feel like they have to choose one. That also lets them start with a relatively clean slate regarding their reputation with each deity.

Also, I prefer hellenistic gods because they're fallible and aren't all-powerful. Someone who's clever enough could go down to Hades and chain him up while he's distracted. Someone who's really good at chess might challenge a god and win. And so on. It makes the world more interesting when the gods can sometimes lose.

The gods do things which you would expect people to do with that kind of power. Zeus spends most of his time getting krunked off divine nectar while turning into animals and screwing women. This makes them more relateable and interesting to me.

[Pex]

This is the Pantheon info I gave the players for my upcoming campaign. Spoilered for length.

Spoiler

Show

With the exception of Oracles, Witches, and some Summoners, everyone has a patron deity. While the Churches don't necessarily dominate politically, perhaps in a country or two, faith is strong in the world. The gods exists, and the populace knows it. They have an influence on the world. Out of character you can know as players there is a reason for this by campaign plot if not revealed early in the campaign.

All PCs must choose a patron. Certain classes have restrictions to be explained in class notes. If you play an Oracle or Witch you do not choose a deity. A Summoner may or may not have one at player choice.

All of the non-evil deities are not jealous of each other. This means that even though you have a patron deity that guides your overall faith it's not sacrilegious to acknowledge the others and even give thanks when appropriate. Divine classes obviously can only pray to their deity, but respect and courtesy to the other faiths is permitted. There is a reason for this also as per campaign plot. The Churches of the gods get along with each other.

All deities have an Order of Clerics, an Order of Paladins, and an Order of Druids. Because of free will worshippers do not have to match the deity's alignment, though Ashtar and Shalleea have restrictions. Even Neutral deities have Paladins. Druids are caretakers of the natural world in accordance to the teachings of their deity. Inquisitors are a recent development within the Churches. Not all deities sponsor them. They are recognized as divine agents but are not part of the Church hierarchy, with the exception of Shalleea. Neutral Clerics may choose to Channel Negative Energy.

Ashtar LG goddess

Harmony in all things. Your family and community are your foundations. Comfort the suffering. Have peace in your heart even when confronting the wicked.

Holy Symbol: Ankh

Favored Weapon: Morningstar

Portfolio: Family, Healing, Protection, Community, Peace

Domains: Community, Glory, Good, Healing, Law, Protection, Sun

Clerics: May only be LG or NG. The Church mainly caters to the communities in which they dwell. They are not pure pacifists and are willing to take up arms in defense against aggressors. You can be a PC cleric of Ashtar traveling and be in good standing with the Church. You are recognized as a Free Roaming divine agent for the world.

Paladins: If there is one word to describe Paladins of Ashtar it would be "wholesome". Kind and caring, they take upon themselves the burden of violence necessary to fight against those who would do harm so that others don't have to. No one petitions to become a Paladin. Instead, Ashtar blesses the status upon those she fines worthy. They do what is right because it is natural. Many don't even realize they are a Paladin until they miraculously discover the ability to do blessings like the Clerics, i.e. 4th level when they can cast spells.

Druids: May only be NG. The world is everyone's home. Respect it, don't spoil it. Take only what you need from that which nature provides.

Inquisitors: None. The concept is too suspicious of others and violent for Ashtar's taste. Her Paladins and Clerics are able to handle aggressive negotiations well enough.

Calavera N god

Death is natural, not evil. It's ok to fear it, but live your life well and you need not fear your afterlife. While alive, live a little. Nothing wrong with a pocket of coin justly earned.

Holy Symbol: Scythe

Favored Weapon: Scythe

Portfolio: Death, Business, Wealth

Domains: Darkness, Destruction, Earth, Fire, Healing, Repose, Travel

Clerics: Any non-evil alignment. The Church teaches that it is not death you truly fear but where you go from there. Live your life well in accordance to your faith. Calavera is just escorting you to your heaven. Who's paying for the funeral?

Paladins: Undead are an abomination. The mindless are desecrations of bodies. The intelligent are either trapped tortured souls or those who willfully defy Calavera. They don't fear death. They are panicked by it. Help Calavera catch them.

Druids: May not be evil. Death is a natural part of the Life Cycle. Everything is born, grows, then dies. Cherish the time you have. It's proper to mourn the Passing, but rejoice in the Renewal.

Inquisitors: None. Everyone dies eventually, so Calavera will greet them soon enough to deliver them to their just reward or punishment. Paladins already take care of the blasphemers.

Corelan CG god

Life is a gift. Don't waste it. Be an example to all.

Holy Symbol: Crescent Moon

Favored Weapon: Longbow

Portfolio: Elves, Art, Music

Domains: Air, Chaos, Charm, Good, Liberation, Magic

Clerics: Any non-evil alignment. The Church counsels and protects elves. They communicate with other races more than elves in general. They find the Church of Eilistraee a lost cause but hope to be wrong.

Paladins: It's very rare but Elf Paladins do exist. Quite stubborn, they seek to destroy all that is evil. They don't fit well in elven communities, not that they'd be turned away.

Druids: Non-evil. Elves and Nature are one and the same. The elves know what they're doing. Take care of those who do not.

Inquisitors: Hell no.

Note: It is not a requirement for an elf to worship Corelan. Any non-racial deity is appropriate.

Dabith N god

Things must be done and someone must do them. Lead, follow, or get out of the way. There is always more to experience.

Holy Symbol: 20-sided Polyhedron

Favored Weapon: Rapier

Portfolio: Adventure, Traveling, Daring, Luck

Domains: Glory, Knowledge, Luck, Madness, Strength, Travel, Trickery

Clerics: Any alignment. The Church is very loosely organized. There are only two standing structure temples in the world. One is in the Holy City where every god has a temple. The other isn’t known to exist on the continent the campaign takes place. Rather, all clerics travel and see what mischief they get into to make the world a better place. There’s always some crisis that needs to be solved. It is up to them and those they travel with to do it.

Paladins: Rare but not unheard of. Paladins of Dabith are on their own quest to vanquish evil in the land and bring hope to where there is none. They do it because no one else will.

Druids: Rarer than Paladins, they are masters of the natural world and seek what’s in it. Each Druid follows his own agenda.

Inquisitors: A few. Akin to Paladins but do what needs to be done at the moment instead of holding onto a personal code.

Garl Glittergold NG god

Life is to be enjoyed. Discover new things. Create new things. Stamp out misery. Ooh, shiny!

Holy Symbol: Gold Ingot

Portfolio: Gnomes, Jokes, Stories

Domains: Animal, Artifice, Charm, Earth, Good, Luck, Plant, Rune, Trickery

Clerics: Any non-evil. Counsel gnomes. Inspire others to greatness in their endeavors. Add to the world more than what you found in it.

Paladins: Very rare. If a gnome Paladin exists, gnomes are in great danger.

Druids: Not evil. Life is beautiful. Nature is beautiful. Animals are our friends.

Inquisitor: None. They’re stuffy.

Note: It is not a requirement for a gnome to worship Garl Glittergold. Any non-racial deity is appropriate.

Jaqyde N god

Why should the “demi”-humans have a god but not Humanity? It’s about time they got one, and Jaqyde is proud to sponsor them. Humans are more artistic than dwarves, more constructive than elves, wiser than gnomes, and stronger than halflings. Jaqyde also encourages half-humans to embrace their human bloodline. Forgo the stereotype of the other. Humanity is diverse, but if there’s one thing that unites them is that they alone of all the races are willing to fight for a Cause beyond themselves. Jaqyde emulates them and supports Eilistraee in her quest to redeem the Drow.

Holy Symbol: Skull With Crossed Olive Branches

Favored Weapon: Short Sword

Portfolio: Humans, Half-Humans, Causes, Helping

Domains: Charm, Community, Healing, Liberation, Nobility, Strength, Protection, War

Clerics: Any alignment. Clerics counsel those who need it. They help where they are needed. They fight for those who can’t fight themselves. It is the highest compliment to be told by someone “You’re the man!”

Paladins: The path of the Paladin is an ancient human tradition. Humans invented it. Humans excel at it. Jaqyde respects this noble tradition and smiles upon all who fight the good fight. Paladins are on the forefront of various Causes.

Druids: Any alignment. Let the elves claim all they want how they are one with Nature. The faith of the Druid is an ancient human tradition. Humans invented it. Humans excel at it. The Natural world is to be respected, but don’t forget that Humanity is a part of it. Cities are not the enemy. Civilization is not the enemy. Teach those who are hurting Nature a better way to work with it.

Inquisitors: Any alignment. Plots are everywhere. Seek them out. Expose them. Preserve a Just society and overthrow tyranny.

Note: Obviously humans can worship other gods. Jaqyde welcomes half-elves and half-orcs, and they are permitted to be a divine class in his name. Jaqyde knows Humanity has potential for great evil. The possibility must exist for there to be free will. Should his divine agents be on opposing sides in combat Jaqyde does not choose between them. He will not deny his blessings, but they are forbidden to use Summon Monster, Summon Nature’s Ally, Planar Ally, Gate, or any similar spell or ability in that battle. The Paladin is allowed his Mount/Sword and the Druid his Animal Companion. Jaqyde encourages all his agents to help redeem the Drow.

Montgod LG god

You are given intellect and reason. Use them. Be imaginative. Aspire always to greatness.

Holy Symbol: Quill and Hammer Crossed

Favored Weapon: Dagger

Portfolio: Invention, Knowledge, Construction

Domains: Artifice, Earth, Fire, Good, Knowledge, Law, Rune

Clerics: Non-evil. The Clerics teach that Montgod does not hate magic, but he prefers you don’t use it as a crutch. You have the ability to do great things without magic. Discover them. Reinventing magic is interesting.

Paladins: Rare. They seek out those who destroy and disrupt. They like being bodyguards.

Druids: Non-evil. The Natural world offers many gifts if you know where to look. You can learn from it.

Inquisitors: None

Moradin LG god

Work the earth that was given to you. Forge what you need. Solid ground is solid footing.

Holy Symbol: Anvil

Favored Weapon: Warhammer

Portfolio: Dwarves, Metals, Gems

Domains: Artifice, Earth, Glory, Good, Law, Protection, Strength, War

Clerics: Any non-evil. Clerics counsel the dwarves. Those who travel away from the community are on special assignment to seek out or destroy those who threaten the dwarves or to seek vengeance.

Paladin: Champions of Moradin who defend the dwarves.

Druids: Any non-evil. Masters of the earth. They’re rarely seen above ground. It takes a great threat to the dwarves to draw them out.

Inquisitors: The dwarves are not snobs and will have discourse with other races. Inquisitors are the divine agents who regularly interact with the world outside of dwarven lands even in times of peace and safety. They are vigilant against those who are grabastic or have incorrect thinking. :D

Note: It is not a requirement for a dwarf to worship Moradin. Any non-racial deity is appropriate.

Mother Nature N goddess

The world is your gift. Take good care of it, and it will take good care of you.

Holy Symbol: Tree

Favored Weapon: Quarterstaff

Portfolio: Nature, Weather, Sun, Elements, The World

Domains: Air, Animal, Earth, Fire, Plant, Sun, Water, Weather

Clerics & Druids: Non-evil. Clerics and Druids are one clergy. Clerics counsel in the cities and towns. The Druids are the wardens everywhere else. They are Nature’s defenders. Clerics teach how to be one with Nature. Druids punish those who aren’t.

Paladins: Very rare. A Paladin of Mother Nature is most likely human whose Cause is the environment and define those who spoil it a great evil, for the world is everyone’s home.

Inquisitor: No need.

Shalleea LN goddess

Be honest and fair in all things. Your word is your bond. Punish those who do Wrong.

Holy Symbol: Balance Scales

Favored Weapon: Long Sword

Portfolio: Justice, Vengeance, Law, Honesty

Domains: Fire, Glory, Healing, Law, Nobility, Protection, Repose, War, Water

Clerics: The Church of Shalleea is in three sects. Your membership in a sect depends on whether you are Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, or Lawful Evil. The Good sect strives for Justice. Just punishment is tempered with Mercy. The spirit of the law is what matters. Anyone can atone to seek redemption. The Neutral sect is the third party arbiter of disputes. The letter of the law is what matters. Laws can be changed in the proper manner. Rules are necessary for society to function. The Evil sect strives for revenge. They are the punishers. The only difference they have with the Good sect, they claim, is the methods they use in punishing the guilty, especially those whom the law can’t touch. They are not megalomaniac psychopaths. They’ll pet the dog and coo at babies. However, they’ll cut off the hand of thieves and animate the corpse of the murderous tyrant to be a slave in his afterlife. All the sects acknowledge each other as part of the same Church. There is no Schism, but they try to stay out of each other’s way.

Paladins: Strictly in the Good sect, they’re the agents of Righteousness to vanquish the irredeemable and bring Justice to those who need it.

Druids: Any. The world is ours to govern. Druids of Shalleea are the world’s judges, juries, and executioners for the Natural world.

Inquisitors: The Neutral and Evil sects’ version of the Paladin. The Good sect tried to have them, but without the Code of the Paladin their zeal for Justice led to Vengeance, the Evil sect. The Good sect doesn’t bother anymore and relies on the Paladins.

Sherkidu NG god

Evil never rests. Don’t be complacent. Peace is just a temporary respite of war. Always be prepared. Be nice. With great power comes great responsibility.

Holy Symbol: Dragon Head

Favored Weapon: Mace

Portfolio: Magic, Dragons, Good, War

Domains: Air, Glory, Good, Magic, Protection, Strength, War

Clerics: Non-evil. Constant vigilance! Shandrax is always on the move. Might defeats evil. Magic is might. Dragons are magic. Spread goodness so that evil has no room to grow.

Paladins: Smite Evil! Be kind. Smite Evil! Be courteous. Smite Evil! Be honest. Smite Evil! Care for orphans. Smite Evil! Be charitable. Smite Evil!

Druids: Non-evil. The forces of Nature stand ready to fight against Shandrax and his minions.

Inquisitors: Any non-evil. Smite Evil! Smite Evil! Smite Evil! Smite Evil!

Note: It is in character to know that while dragons are known to exist not many people on the continent the campaign takes place have ever seen one. When people speak of dragons usually they do not do so in fear, not even if talking about the Reds.

Yondalla NG goddess

Everyone is family. Be kind to strangers. Generosity makes everyone rich.

Holy Symbol: Cornucopia

Favored Weapon: Sap

Portfolio: Halflings, Hospitality, Sharing

Domains: Community, Good, Liberation, Luck, Plant, Protection, Travel

Clerics: Non-evil. Counsel to all who would listen. Clerics are often frustrated trying to undo the reputation of halflings being thieves.

Paladins: Very rare. They are zealous in proving themselves and halflings in general.

Druids: Halflings and Nature are natural friends. Share the bounty of the world.

Inquisitors: None. They’re stuffy.

Note: It is not a requirement for a halfling to worship Yondalla. Any non-racial deity is appropriate.

The following gods are also part of the Pantheon but are not suitable for PCs due to campaign plot.

Barni LG god

Barni loves you. Be polite. Behave.

Holy Symbol: Smiling Face

Favored Weapon: Sickle

Portfolio: Love, Children, Manners

Blutor N god

Blutor’s teachings are classified.

Holy Symbol: Hourglass

Favored Weapon: Bastard Sword

Portfolio: That Which You Are Not Meant To Know

Note: You are meant to know, out of character in order to make an informed decision, that the Church Of Blutor hates all Oracles, Witches, and Summoners who do not choose the deity. They do not have a kill on a sight policy, but they are openly hostile to members of those classes. You are not meant to know at this time why the hostility exists. DM to player you are perfectly welcomed to play an Oracle, Witch, or Summoner who doesn’t choose a deity. I’m just letting you know how NPCs who worship Blutor will react should you meet any in the game. Blutor and the Church are not evil and get along well with the non-evil Churches just like the others. They just really hate Oracles, Witches, and Summoners who do not choose a deity.

Eilistraee CG goddess

Return to the Light. You can be forgiven of your trespasses. You are loved.

Holy Symbol: Sun

Favored Weapon; Crossbow

Portfolio: Redemption of Drow

Lolth CE goddess

Mine!

Holy Symbol: Dryder

Favored Weapon: Whip

Portfolio: Drow

Shandrax CE god

Obey me or die!

Holy Symbol: A Gauntlet In A Fist

Favored Weapon: Gauntlet

Portfolio: Evil, Madness, Destruction, Murder, Conquest

[Kol Korran]

This seemslike a very interesting topic. I suggest looking at the Eberron book "Faiths of Eberron", where they explored the unique faiths of this world in a very interesting and thorough way. To me the book (and religions) are really really intriguing. I think this is due to some of the following:
1) Each religion isn't focused on one aspect of the world (such as water, honor, death or the like), but tries to relate to all the big questions that real world religions try to answer- life and death, the next world, what is faith about, creation myths and the like. And each does so in a very different way, with very different outlooks even at their core.
2) the religions relate to each other in some way, mostly in their opinions on each other, conflicts or similar areas of interest. This gives the religions a much more lively feel, a place in the world.
3) Each religion also has it's own set of hierarchy or roles in worship, and they quite differ from religion to religion. Such as common worshipers, clergy, saints and more.
4) They each have different holy days (and reasons for them), with a short description and customs that can be expanded upon.
5) Most of the religions have some unsolved mysteries, which are left for the DM and players to expand upon, theorize, and explore. I really like that.

Might be worht looking through it. The book is the best RPG book I've seen dealing with fantasy religions by FAR.

[Honest Tiefling]

I don't like to have pantheons with too many gods centered around adventurers. It feels weird if there aren't a lot of gods for the other people in the world and can feel a bit wonky with how the world is set up. I will admit, a lot of commoners would probably give thanks to a god of Hedonism, depending on the type of hedonism god you have and cultural values.

And considering how many neo-pagans there are and how often ancient gods crop up in art and entertainment, I have to wonder if the greco-roman style of things is really all that bad. Okay, the afterlife sucks (As does the Norse and Sumerian version...) but that could be easily fixed.

[ReaderAt2046]

An angle I've used a few times in my campaigns in what I call Delegated Monotheism. That is, there's one Judeo-Christian style God, creator and ultimate master of everything, but there are also lesser gods, which are his creations and servants and whom he allows a lot of leeway in running the world (Something like Christian angels, but much more involved). The civilized nations worship God and all his gods, but individual people will often pick one god as a patron and symbol, much like medieval patron saints, and a lot of the upper class deal directly with God. There can also be cults or dark civilizations that worship the rebel gods (some gods turned against God and seek to defy him).

[WbtE]

There are what one might call "retro-solutions" - going back to older conceptions of the class. After all, 1e and 2e Clerics are not "divine magicians" and it would be a stretch to call them priests. They're members of a fantasy equivalent of a military order of the Catholic Church - the most famous are the Knights Templar and the Knights Hospitaller. Within the conceits of a fantasy world, a member of this sort of outfit could plausibly be "at large" with a license to dispatch evil (or good, or whatever) wherever it might lurk. Giving sermons is something they leave to the old men in robes, though attending them is another matter.

The main problem with bringing this interpretation forward is that the Paladin has fallen into the "holy warrior" role, out of his "peerless knight" niche. However, I don't think it's too hard to see how people like Joan of Arc and Lancelot are different to warrior-monks.

[erikun]

One of the big problems I have with D&D deities and worship is that so much of it makes little sense in being an actual practicioner of a deity. To follow the tenants of Pelor, god of the sun and healing, you have to be... good-aligned, and get your spells at sunrise. There is no mechanical reason - and more important, no mechanical benefit - towards, say, taking the time to heal the sick or set up some sort of medical provisions in a town.

D&D deities also tend to be rather broad, vague, and attached to alignment. One big problem I find is that I like the idea of a cleric of death, putting the dead to rest. But in just about every setting except Forgotten Realms, the deity of death is evil, rather destroying the idea for a good-aligned cleric. You can't have a lawful evil cleric of butchery unless there's a LE deity for butchery. You can't have a cleric of some really fun ideas, like Sun/Undeath "control undead or destroy them at my command" because that requires a deity that doesn't exist. All deities are attached to an alignment, so even if you want so something as mundane as a LG lunar cleric, you're out of luck.

And the alignment thing is really the problem in the situation. What about these clerics of Good deities who commit atrocities in the name of their god? What about clerics who "go rogue" but still follow the deity's tenants? There are a lot of deity concepts that don't really make sense attached to alignment (good fortune is chaotic?) and doing it anyways means that reasonable character ideas just don't work because, well, your colors don't match.

[Talya]

The goddess of hedonism? Like Sharess?

[johnbragg]

Personally, I've always felt that the D&D cleric was bad world-building. The standard priest is as much a civic and political role as a religious one. If you weren't designing everything to fit around a combat-heavy roleplaying game, you wouldn't have Priests of The God of Agriculture as you would The Head Priest of Dirttown. And the Head Priest of Dirttown would be in charge of the rituals that help the town to placate and keep the favor of all of the major deities.

Now you could also have adventurers who enjoy the favor and patronage of a god, like Athena helping out Odysseus in the Iliad. But most priests are busy looking after their town, much like most warrior/fighters are busy doing their town guard jobs.

[nedz]

Make the pantheon a central part of the milieux

• Design a calendar
• Map out the holy days and festivals
• When the party is in town religious stuff happens around them, and out of town the PC clerics had better respect any holy days

[Ravens_cry]

I've wanted to use this in an an game world. It has many things I like. One, the gods are majestic and,frankly, alien; awesome and terrific in the etymological sense. Two, they are remote enough that you can have all sorts of wonderful sub-cults and schisms that add a great way to add a political dimension to the world. You can have people who worship the same god yet be completely opposed to one another.
Yet, at the same time, they are real, adding an element of mystery and wonder to the world. Nations and cultures might have different names for them, legends and myths about them, but they are what they are.

[Anxe]

Schisms are something I've seen missing from a lot of D&D pantheons. I'm definitely including them in my next campaign world once I get around to writing more of it.

[Ravens_cry]

Schisms are something I've seen missing from a lot of D&D pantheons. I'm definitely including them in my next campaign world once I get around to writing more of it.

Well, they don't make sense in a lot of D&D pantheons. When the gods are so immediate and human, it'd be a little weird to have an escalating conflict like that when the god can come down and say, "Cut that crap out, guys! *This* is what I meant."

[Kitten Champion]

Somehow the OP reminded me of this.

I prefer the Eberron approach considerably. Having religion be a subject for genuine faith, not a culture of sycophants begging a cosmic bully for attention. That's not religion, that's celestial politics, and you're not faithful, just a partisan hack.

I'd suggest looking here, the TV tropes list of religions. Take out individual concepts and tropes that interest you, mix them around a bit and change any of the proper names. You can take, for instance, Mormonism, combine it with the Hindu cosmology and blend it with Kabbalah to get something not remotely like any of them.

[BeerMug Paladin]

This is more or less the basis for my own fantasy setting. Basically, there's only a few gods, and each of the gods represents a modern, real-world ideology, and grants the true believers (those who study the sacred philosophies intently, appear to understand them) divine power.

It's not something that is easy to get into without veering in a semi-political direction, which is, I think why most settings stick with more classical fantasy gods and religions. Generally for a game, it's probably best to keep fantasy religions as distinct from real-world ideas and religions as much as possible, that way everyone's having fun, and nobody feels offended by whichever ideology gets labelled as lawful evil or what-have-you.

That said, I once played a priestess of Bacchus in a game(Favored Soul). She was a party maniac and loved to get people to relax and have a good time. Later in the game, she even wound up being the high priestess of a temple to Bacchus, and organized festivals and parties for an entire city.

I think in terms of fantasy religions, the chances are good what you'd like is already out there somewhere, you just need to find it and not be afraid to put your own spin on it.

[Slipperychicken]

Well, they don't make sense in a lot of D&D pantheons. When the gods are so immediate and human, it'd be a little weird to have an escalating conflict like that when the god can come down and say, "Cut that crap out, guys! *This* is what I meant."

I could see it happening when, for whatever reason*, the god doesn't do that.


*There are a whole bunch of reasons a god might not intervene:

• He wants to watch his followers kill each other, out of pure schadenfreude and lulz.
• He doesn't have the time for it. He's got multiple planes of existence, and godly duties to attend to. This schism on one world will have to wait for a few decades/centuries while he tries to deal with enemy gods, power-grabbing epic wizards, fiends, or eldritch horrors.
• He isn't allowed to. Something like the Pact Primeval might prevent him from directly manifesting in the material plane.
• The schism is actually a test of faith, to weed out those who do not make the correct decision. Maybe he wants to see which of his followers will kill their brothers in his name, and shun them for their brutality.
• His followers have grown complacent, and he thinks they need conflict to adhere better to his ideals.
• He got drunk off divine nectar and lost a bet with a demon lord or trickster god.
• And so on.

[Ravens_cry]

You know, most of those are short term. What's short term to a god is another question, but even if a god is pulling a 'test of faith' angle, they'd probably want it to end pretty quick on a human scale, before too many of their followers wipe each other out. or ar at least distracted from what the god considers to be the 'real issues'. The problem with the contract idea is that a contract is only as good as it can be enforced. A god that must keep such a raw deal as they can't tell their followers 'Cut that out out!' is probably pretty low on the cosmic totem pole.
An Evil god intentionally sparking a civil war amongst their followers is fine for that, but less good when you want something more like actual schisms and civil war.
No, I am not giving examples, go look it up on Wikipedia or something.

[endoperez]

Dungeon Crawl, a PC roguelike, makes a good job of making your choice of religion into something that affects your actions and playstyle. That's a really cool design, considering it's a dungeon crawler with no roleplaying to speak of!

First, certain gods like certain things, and hate certain other things.
Second, you can dedicate an action for a god by performing it while praying. The prayer lasts a short while from when you utter it, and you can't stop it on your own.

For example, Trog, the god of rage and battle and blood, likes killing.
When you pray (and personally I imagine the prayer to be "Blood for the blood god" or something similar), and then kill things, Trog likes you. He gives you ability to enter Berserker Rage, and enhances your melee capabilities.

Trog dislikes mages and magic. If you learn or cast spells, he's not happy. If you do those while praying, he'll get angry. If you destroy spellbooks while praying, he's happy. And so on.

A different god of battle might expect you to fight honorably (no poison, no invisibility, no attacking paniced enemies etc), and rewards you with weapons and armor.

A third god of battle, Zen, likes long plans and patient characters. As long as you don't anger him, just being his follower is enough to get in his better graces. Destroying undead is something he really likes. He gives blessings and minor heals, IIRC.

A healer goddess likes it when you heal your enemies, and they become pacified when you do so. While you're under a prayer's effect, you're protected... but killing any living creature while under Elyvilon's prayer will make her angry at you.



The problem isn't the religions or the gods. It's the interactions, which are missing. It's the differences, which aren't emphasized.

[Lorsa]

The goddess of hedonism? Like Sharess?

Seems to be a Sharess / Lliira combination.

[Slipperychicken]

You know, most of those are short term. What's short term to a god is another question, but even if a god is pulling a 'test of faith' angle, they'd probably want it to end pretty quick on a human scale, before too many of their followers wipe each other out. or ar at least distracted from what the god considers to be the 'real issues'. The problem with the contract idea is that a contract is only as good as it can be enforced. A god that must keep such a raw deal as they can't tell their followers 'Cut that out out!' is probably pretty low on the cosmic totem pole.
An Evil god intentionally sparking a civil war amongst their followers is fine for that, but less good when you want something more like actual schisms and civil war.
No, I am not giving examples, go look it up on Wikipedia or something.

Remember that gods don't necessarily need followers to be powerful. It might be the cosmic equivalent of playing Sims: things like violence and strife might be part of the challenge, and directly intervening is considered unfun or cheating, much like using console commands (or fiating a happy ending in a roleplaying game). It could also be kind of like maintaining an ant farm for them -they might flake out and forget to feed\manage it for a while. The mortals are real and probably feel pain, but they're so far beneath the gods that it's not worth crying about.

[Frozen_Feet]

It is my humble opinion that if you ever want to make convincing fantasy religions, you have to read on the nitty-gritty of the real, existing ones. Obviously not a topic for these boards, but nonetheless I still suggest reading Pascal Boyer's Religion Explained, and then continuing by reading the Bible, the Quran etc.

A word of warning, though: a lot of the players who don't find religion a compelling topic of games feel so due to their antipathies towards existing ones. Just because a religion isn't real, doesn't mean it can't trigger real feelings. See the endless alignment debates on these forums that almost always boil down to "I can't detach myself enough from my RL beliefs of right and wrong to accept this game system of right and wrong!".

[TheThan]

I think gods and mortals should have a circular relationship.

By that I mean, that the gods gain their divine power from the mortals that worship them. But they have to give back some of their divine power (cleric magic, miracles etc) to mortals (usually their servants and agents) in order to promote that worship.

I also believe that the gods of a fantasy world should be in charge of something. They should have some sort of responsibility that keeps a lot of their attention. For example a rain god spends much of his time making it rain and farmers better pray to him if they don’t want drought.

I dislike gods of abstract concepts like “loyalty”, or “honor” or the like; because now, these gods don’t actually do anything. What does the god of honor do all day? The god of the harvest is making the grain grow and the grapes ripen... Although I can see some conceptual gods working, like a god of justice would be one that certain officers would pray to, like a judge or a sheriff. I see them praying for the wisdom to dispense fair justice and the power to bring that justice down on offenders. But still, i think I'm going to stick to gods needing to have some sort of job they choose to or must do.

[Slipperychicken]

I dislike gods of abstract concepts like “loyalty”, or “honor” or the like; because now, these gods don’t actually do anything. What does the god of honor do all day? The god of the harvest is making the grain grow and the grapes ripen... Although I can see some conceptual gods working, like a god of justice would be one that certain officers would pray to, like a judge or a sheriff. I see them praying for the wisdom to dispense fair justice and the power to bring that justice down on offenders. But still, i think I'm going to stick to gods needing to have some sort of job they choose to or must do.

I think this is what D&D tried to fix with domains, by giving each god a handful of concepts to embody and allow some diversity in their clergy.

I agree with each god having jobs, like Helios needing to drive the sun-chariot every day, Zeus being king of the gods and needing to resolve disputes, and Hermes being the guy who delivers messages and gets souls to the afterlife. It also allows for amusing mishaps like Helios letting someone else drive the chariot one day, and then the sun crashes and its horses need to be collected in time for sunrise. Or for one of the afterlife gods to go on strike, leaving a bunch of spirits wandering aimlessly until it's resolved.