Weapon and Armor grades, homebrew

[Darkshade]

in my home game we got kind of tired of only having two grades of weapons and armors, normal and masterwork, and we even got a little sick of masterwork being an enhancement bonus.

here is my table...

Weapon Classes

|Class | Modifiers |
|Normal | No change |
|Fine | +1 Masterwork bonus to hit |
|Superior | as above and +1 bonus to damage |
|Remarkable | as above and +1 to critical multiplier |
|Flawless |as above and +1 Masterwork bonus todamage and +1 Masterwork bonus to hit |
|Master Work |as above and +1 to critical threat range and +1 to damage die type |
|Shoddy | -1 to damage |

Armor Classes

|Class | Modifiers |
|Normal | No change |
|Fine | -1 to armor check penalty |
|Superior | as above and +1 to maximum dexterity bonus |
|Remarkable | as above and -5% to arcane spell failure chance |
|Flawless |as above and -1 to armor check penalty and +1 to maximum dexterity bonus |
|Master Work |as above and -5% to arcane spell failure chance and +1 to armor bonus |
|Shoddy | -1 to armor bonus |


Shoddy - 1/2 base price
Normal - base price
Fine - 100gp + base price x 2
Superior - 200gp + base price x 4
Remarkable - 400gp + base price x 8
Flawless - 800gp + base price x 16
Master Work - 1600gp + base price x 32

shoddy weapons and armors have 1 less hardness and 2 less hp than normal for their type
masterful weapons and armor have 1 more point of hardness and 2 more hp per level of quality above normal

I was hoping to get opinions from some other gamers out there

p.s. one of the additional changes we made was to severely restrict access to higher quality weapons and armor to the point were they would evenbe willing to go on difficult miniquests to get their hands on a Master Work weapon

p.p.s. the table didnt post very well, sorry

[magic8BALL]

...so...

I got off and buy a +3 masterworked Scimitar, say (everyone picks on scimitars, for some reason...).

I get +5 to attack, 1d6+6 17-20/x3

It costs me (3 x 3) x 2 000 + 1 600 + (15 x 32) = 20 080gp.
Or was it: (3 x 3) x 2 000 + (1 600 + 15 ) x 32 = 69 680gp?

The second one is closer in line with a +5 weapon, and your adding 19 000gp for somthing roughly equivilent to what I proposed as a +3 enhncement* that was rated as overpowering.

*http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31302

[Darkshade]

...so...

I got off and buy a +3 masterworked Scimitar, say (everyone picks on scimitars, for some reason...).

I get +5 to attack, 1d6+6 17-20/x3

actually it would be +5 to attack, 1d8+5, 17-20/x3

It costs me (3 x 3) x 2 000 + 1 600 + (15 x 32) = 20 080gp.

the above one is correct

Or was it: (3 x 3) x 2 000 + (1 600 + 15 ) x 32 = 69 680gp?

The second one is closer in line with a +5 weapon, and your adding 19 000gp for somthing roughly equivilent to what I proposed as a +3 enhncement* that was rated as overpowering.

*http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31302

the gp value is not the only limiting factor, the grade of the weapon should be used as a guide to making it more difficult to acquire, for that matter a Master Work should never be purchasable, in Kill Bill for example, Hattori Hanzo didn't sell the heroine a sword, but she certainly got a Master Work.

another balancing option would be to make them enhancement bonuses to damage or to jack up the prices

[magic8BALL]

|Class | Modifiers |
|Normal | No change |
|Fine | +1 Masterwork bonus to hit |
|Superior | as above and +1 bonus to damage |
|Remarkable | as above and +1 to critical multiplier |
|Flawless |as above and +1 Masterwork bonus todamage and +1 Masterwork bonus to hit |
|Master Work |as above and +1 to critical threat range and +1 to damage die type |
|Shoddy | -1 to damage |

so if the +1 to damage die type isnt plain ol' add a point of damage, what is that?

Also, would your weapons only need to be Fine or better to be magically enhanced? Is there a maximum enhancement? eg, fine up to +1, supirior up to +2, Remarkable +3 and so on?

[Darkshade]

We decided fine or better for general enhancement, up to +5.
Superior will get you to +8
Remarkable to +10
Flawless for those epic campaigns to +15
more then that you better have a Master Work

also, its not +1 to damage, its +1 to damage die type, the die type for the scimitar is a d6, which goes up one type to a d8.
I also checked out that old thread, we had for a while a keen enchantment, a Deadly enchantment(+1 crit multiplier, +1 enhancement equivalent, and a Killer enchantment(+1crit multiplier, x2 threat range, +3 enhancement equivalent) None of which could be taken together and I know that if you crunch numbers the Killer one is really strong, but it doesnt actually come out that much more powerful in gameplay, also while mathmatically you should multiply the crit multiplier instead of adding one... in practice... thats just silly. One of the other reasons we decided to put the crit multiplier increase on the high grade weapons is because we got rid of the magic enchantment and we still wanted a way to get that albeit not an easy way...

also did anyone notice there is a table for Armor too? :P

[magic8BALL]

Perhaps change the wording to "increase damage dice size", as I supose a 2d6 greatsword goes to 2d8, a 2d8 large bastard sword goes to 3d6, and a huge greataxe comes up from 3d6 to 3d8.

The armor I really don't have any quarms with... anyone else out there?

[Assasinater]

You should do the negatives as well(besides shoddy).

For example,

unwieldy (-1 to hit)
unbalanced (-2 to hit)
rusty (-1 to hit, -1 to dmg)
dull (-1 to hit, -1 to dmg, -1 to threat range)

and such...

It could give the low-level campaigns a flavor; at least, I dislike the idea of getting +1 weapons in the first levels. It feels like epicness is being forced upon us.

[icke]

What about craft DC's? I don't expect all of these things only require a DC 20 like the usual masterwork. How about this:

Normal: No change
Fine: DC 20(usual masterwork)
Superior: DC 25
Remarkable: DC 28
Flawless: DC 33
Master Work: DC 35
Shoddy: Usual craft DC -5

Also, an armor issue: Grant the -5% spell failure chance(now remarkable) before You grant the +1 maximum dexterity(now superior), since it's more powerfull.

[Darkshade]

What about craft DC's? I don't expect all of these things only require a DC 20 like the usual masterwork. How about this:

Normal: No change
Fine: DC 20(usual masterwork)
Superior: DC 25
Remarkable: DC 28
Flawless: DC 33
Master Work: DC 35
Shoddy: Usual craft DC -5

Also, an armor issue: Grant the -5% spell failure chance(now remarkable) before You grant the +1 maximum dexterity(now superior), since it's more powerfull.

hmm i dont know about the armor but i hadnt thought about the craft DCs just thought REALLY HARD

honestly some campaings require you to take a Craft Masterwork Arms and Armor feat, and i usually disagree with that idea but in this case i think it should be used.

also i think the DC needs to go up by 5 each time so
fine 20
superior 25
remarkable 30
flawless 35
Master Work 40

and as far as shoddy is concerned i concerned making shoddy what happens when you fail on your craft check by 5 or less

[icke]

hmm i dont know about the armor but i hadnt thought about the craft DCs just thought REALLY HARD

honestly some campaings require you to take a Craft Masterwork Arms and Armor feat, and i usually disagree with that idea but in this case i think it should be used.

also i think the DC needs to go up by 5 each time so
fine 20
superior 25
remarkable 30
flawless 35
Master Work 40

and as far as shoddy is concerned i concerned making shoddy what happens when you fail on your craft check by 5 or less

DC increase by 5 each step is fine, I just proposed the others so as not to scare of everyone.
A smith should be able to make shoddy armor if he wants to, so it should be possible to assign a DC to it. I like the "failed craft check" idea, though. Maybe one could use both variants.

[icke]

Here's an alternative version of improving weapons and armor:

Special materials
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31372