How Do You Play Dwarves Efficiently?

[Khantalas]

Simply put, why is dwarf considered better than other core races? Now, let me say that I don't think dwarf isn't overpowered, I am saying I have no idea. I just hear that dwarves are overpowered around - it's be nice to know why.

[mikeejimbo]

I guess many people think that because they get a bonus to Constitution, which is handy for everyone, and a penalty to Charisma, which is a dump stat for a lot of people.

That and they look at all those other special things, like the +4 AC vs. Giants. The stonecutting bonus. Darkvision. The problem with those is that they're so circumstantial. A DM with a dwarf in their party doesn't have to throw them up against Giants, stone, or the Dark, after all.

[Khantalas]

OK, if you're playing in my games, you can't dump Charisma, so let's put that aside.

What about the +2 racial bonus against magic and poison?

[Bears With Lasers]

Dwarves just plain get more and better bonuses than pretty much all the other races. +2 CON is always useful, for -2 CHA which is one of the more common dump stats (or -2 DEX if you want to play a bard or sorcerer--ah, subraces). Then there's Darkvision, lack of encumbrance from heavy armor/loads, +2 saves vs. spells, Stability, and a bunch of other small miscellaneous bonuses to boot.

[Saph]

Well, it's the best race for a fighter, no doubt about that, because you get so many useful bonuses - dwarven waraxe proficiency, +2 con, better encumbrance so you can use heavy armour without penalty, etc.

However, it's definitely not the best race if you want to play a caster or a class that relies on mobility. So I wouldn't say that the dwarf is universally better than the other core races.

- Saph

[The_Snark]

Dwarves get...

+2 Con, -2 Cha. Constitution is important for everyone, whereas Charisma is only useful to certain classes or types of characters.

A +2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells, spell-like abilities, and poisons. This covers probably well over half the saving throws the dwarf will ever be making.

Darkvision. Useful.

Weapon familiarity with the dwarven waraxe and dwarven urgrosh. The second is pretty useless, but the first can be handy for some fighter-types to have.

Some attack or dodge bonuses against certain types of enemies. Situationally useful.

A couple flavorful skill bonuses and Stonecunning; not really that useful.

The ability to move at normal speed in armor, counterbalanced by a lower speed in the first place.

It's not overpowered, exactly, but it's better than most other base races are, particularly when you take into account the fact that their favored class is Fighter; the abilities outlined above suit a fighter perfectly for the most part. For that matter, they make decent wizards, too.

[Rei_Jin]

Dwarves are rated my number one base class, followed by humans.

Why?

Dwarves get a bonus to con, which I view as everyone's secondary stat.
Dwarves get a bonus to saves against spells.
Dwarves can wear heavy armor without penalty.
Dwarves get Darkvision, one of only two core races to get it. The other is the horribly nerfed Half-Orc.
Dwarves get stonecunning, which whilst not overpowered, adds to the other stuff they get.
Dwarves also get a bonus against orcs and goblinoids, the most common low level enemy in most default campaigns.
Dwarves also get a bonus to defense against giants. One feat, just one from Races of Stone allows him to add that +4 dodge bonus against any creature at least one size category larger than him.

And what drawbacks do they get?
Speed 20ft (medium or heavy armor on any other race results in the same or worse).
They get a dump stat of either Charisma (oh so painful for a fighter) or Dexterity (that's gonna hurt my Cleric oh so much).

...

That's it? That's all the penalty I get for all that awesomeness?

[Khantalas]

Oh, I'm glad I changed the Dwarves now.

[Saph]

I'm not sure. 20 ft speed is a problem if you're playing a caster or lightly armoured character. That's not an issue if you're a fighter, but it still makes it significantly harder to get in range to hit things, and you can pretty much never outrun anything.

A Dwarf makes a great frontline character, no doubt about that, but they're not an automatic choice in any game I've seen. I don't think I've ever seen a party with more than one dwarf.

- Saph

[Rei_Jin]

I've seen parties where 3 of the 4 characters were Dwarves.

Dwarven Barbarian1/Fighter6
Dwarven Cleric of Pelor7
Dwarven Rogue7
Human Sorceror7

Is one such example. The Human Sorceror can cast Darkvision to keep up with the others underground, the rogue has no problems with traps in the dungeons, and the cleric and fighter stand toe to toe in combat, one has more HP and combat tricks, the other can heal.

[TheThan]

Dwarves are a bit more powerful than most of the other races. I don’t think they’re overpowered, I just like to think of them as being the “top end” of the +0 LA races. Anything that seems mechanically superior to the dwarf probably ought to have a level adjustment. With half orcs being the “low end” of the spectrum. The other base races seem to fall somewhere in-between the two.

[Seatbelt]

OK, if you're playing in my games, you can't dump Charisma, so let's put that aside.

What about the +2 racial bonus against magic and poison?

How does that work? How do you force someone to not put their lowest score in Charisma? What if I'm playing some class with MAD and Charisma just doesnt help him at all? I have to sacrafice because you hate people being ugly. :P

[AmoDman]

How does that work? How do you force someone to not put their lowest score in Charisma? What if I'm playing some class with MAD and Charisma just doesnt help him at all? I have to sacrafice because you hate people being ugly. :P

You can still be beautiful with a horrible Charisma ;). Might be a funny idea for a character flaw, "Everyone always thought Ailae was beautiful, until she opened her mouth..."

[Khantalas]

How does that work? How do you force someone to not put their lowest score in Charisma? What if I'm playing some class with MAD and Charisma just doesnt help him at all? I have to sacrafice because you hate people being ugly. :P

You just won't survive wtihout Charisma checks. Cause I'm running a horror campaign. Either you die, or you don't dump Charisma.

It's very fun, by the way.

[Wolf53226]

Not that I am going to tell you that this is silly or anything, but what are all these charisma checks for?

[Khantalas]

Ah, a lot of things. And Will saves.

Although that is not a Charisma check, per se.

Well, like, you open doors with Charisma checks at times. Small things. But without them, you can't do much.

[oriong]

Essentially Dwarves are good the same reason Halflings are good.

They're very focused.

Dwarves make exceedingly good armored fighters (note small 'f'). They do away with most penalties for heavy armor (once you've got medium or heavy armor on the speed isn't a difference). They get extra hit points. They get bonuses where fighters are weak (Will and Reflex saves against spells) while being even better where they are strong (net +3 bonus against fortitude saves against magic or poison). They also receive what is basically bonus damage in the form of the dwarven waraxe, allowing them to get better damage in one hand without spending a feat.

The only penalty they have is poor charisma which, mechanically at least, is almost meaningless.


Halflings are the same way, except their advantage is geared towards sneaking rogues. they get huge skill bonuses which makes skill monkeys even nastier. Excellent saving throw bonuses, and a bonus to Dex with a penalty to Strength (probably a dump stat for many rogues anyway).

[Jack_Simth]

Do note that it's entirely possible to have an all dwarf party.

Dwarf Rogue
Dwarf Cleric
Dwarf Fighter
Dwarf Wizard

None of them particularly need Charisma....

If you get into the UA racial environmental variants, the Desert Kobolod is close. Small size, +2 Dex, +1 Natural armor = +3 AC compared to a human.
No light sensitivity (without losing the darkvision). Trades the Con penalty for a Wis penalty. Keeps the 30 foot land speed. Great for an AC monkey. The -4 Strength is a pain... unless, of course, you play a class that doesn't need much strength to begin with. Desert Kobolds make excellent Wizards and Sorcerers. If you prefer to play a Cleric or Druid, the Jungle Kobold will do the job (Int penalty instead of Wis or Con).

[Roderick_BR]

Back at 2nd edition, elves were overpowered.
Hmm... true. Only a charisma penalty (that the dont use anyway) and a speed penalty (for a medium sized character), although now they move as fast as an armored human.
I'd push them back down to 3.0, without the weapon familiarity and stability. Don't know about the skill bonuses or bonuses against orcs/giants. They used to have save bonuses agaisnt magic because they couldn't be arcane spellcasters before. Hmm... a though one...

PS: Since 3.0, I'm scared of fighting halflings... specially after 3.5. You could use a short sword (1d6) one handed, or a long sword(1d8) two-handed, but now you can use a halfling sized greatsword (1d10). It's a small change, but adds a lot to it.

[JaronK]

As someone else said, Dwarfs just get useful melee type bonuses. They're not massively strong or anything, just a good solid race. Halflings, likewise, are good at what they do, as are Humans. Gnomes are a bit more niche oriented, but still quite useful. Meanwhile, you've got Half Orcs and Half Elves, which really aren't good enough at any one thing to be impressive.

It's not a big deal though, really. Nothing close to the difference between a Fighter and a Druid, for example.

JaronK

[Frosty Flake]

Dwarf characters (ie. Players using dwarves) can also get away with insulting the party, reminiscing about the "good old days" and the "home country" and speaking in a scottish accent more than any other race... this alone gives them a massive bonus as far as I'm concerned... besides, Dwarven Urban Ranger who trades in magic and duel-weilds two Dwarven Waraxes? Awesome.

Wait... how do you open doors with Charisma?

[mikeejimbo]

Dwarf characters (ie. Players using dwarves) can also get away with insulting the party, reminiscing about the "good old days" and the "home country" and speaking in a scottish accent more than any other race... this alone gives them a massive bonus as far as I'm concerned... besides, Dwarven Urban Ranger who trades in magic and duel-weilds two Dwarven Waraxes? Awesome.

I have to agree with you entirely. "Ye hairless ninny!" makes a great insult to an elf.

Wait... how do you open doors with Charisma?

"Pleeeeeease open" *bats eyelashes*

[Khantalas]

Wait... how do you open doors with Charisma?

Force of personality. When you're in a dreamworld, you could get bonus hit points based on Charisma and it would make sense.

Well, granted, other things have to be explained by killing catgirls.

[Kantolin]

To me, it's dwarves and elves all the way.

Elves seem to make really good everything that dwarves are mediocre at.

I mean, a dwarf is a good cleric. But dwarven clerics lose out on half the dwarven bonuses due to not having full martial, while elven clerics get longswords and longbows, while the d8 hit die is plenty to make up for the -2 con. +2 dex means either you can be an AC monkey or can more easily hit the 12 dex needed to power full plate.

So to me, it's dwarves and elves about on par up top in my book. Meh...

My favortie race will be half-orcs no matter what! Even in 4th edition when D&D adds them a wisdom penalty and a dexterity penalty! And takes away darkvision!

[mikeejimbo]

My favortie race will be half-orcs no matter what! Even in 4th edition when D&D adds them a wisdom penalty and a dexterity penalty! And takes away darkvision!

And once per day they have to roll to see if they go into a sudden blind rage killing their teammates!

[God_of_Luck]

Even if it sounds weird, the 1st Dwarf sorcerer sub level is nice. The others are ok but I prefer not losing spells. Dwarfs are nice, but humans are more useful at lower levels.

[Frosty Flake]

And once per day they have to roll to see if they go into a sudden blind rage killing their teammates!

Wait, this isn't a rule already? My DM has been LYING to me!

[Person_Man]

Mostly because the other races are so mediocre. Humans are always a good choice. But Half-Orcs, Half-Elves, and Gnomes are basically jokes, as are Elves to a lesser degree. No one I know chooses to play them for crunch reasons (unless there's some sort of wierd racial PrC build involved), though plenty of people I know play them for fluff reasons. Halflings make good Rogues, but are a lot less useful now that Whisper Gnomes exist.

There are some good varients (Gray Elves, for example). But if you're going core only, pretty much everyone should be a Dwarf or Human, and often are.

[The_Snark]

Mostly because the other races are so mediocre. Humans are always a good choice. But Half-Orcs, Half-Elves, and Gnomes are basically jokes, as are Elves to a lesser degree. No one I know chooses to play them for crunch reasons (unless there's some sort of wierd racial PrC build involved), though plenty of people I know play them for fluff reasons. Halflings make good Rogues, but are a lot less useful now that Whisper Gnomes exist.

There are some good varients (Gray Elves, for example). But if you're going core only, pretty much everyone should be a Dwarf or Human, and often are.

Gnomes are jokes? Odd; they've always looked like a pretty good caster race to me. They get Small size, a Con bonus, a few cantrip abilities, and +1 to the save DC of Illusions... not bad for a wizard or sorceror, really. Unless you're talking flavorwise, in which case yes, they're jokes.

[Bears With Lasers]

Whisper Gnomes are (a) the uberest LA +0 race, and (b) like normal gnomes, but not silly.