Worst Race Ever

[Shatenjager]

What's the worst LA race for a player?

The one that comes to mind for me is the Blue. You mean I get goblin stats (which are already subpar), and one powerpoint for LA+1? Sign me up!

[Fax Celestis]

Hands-down, Varag out of the MM-IV.

[Wonderboy]

What's the worst LA race for a player?

The one that comes to mind for me is the Blue. You mean I get goblin stats (which are already subpar), and one powerpoint for LA+1? Sign me up!

Yeah, but I think they're kind of cool.

[Ikkitosen]

Hobgobs - they're the worst by being the most common crappy +1 LA race.

[reorith]

Svirfneblin for the lose. +3 for nothing worth using and the ability to suck more than a normal gnome and a -2 net to abilities. the spell likes are lacking in that a 4th level gnome as a caster could pull those off. oh well.

[Amiria]

Tieflings ! It is just plain unfair that they get +/+/- on stats while their counterparts, the Aasimars, get +/+.

In my RL gaming group their ability boni are +2 dexterity and +2 charisma. And the planetouched are +1 LA templates.

[DaMullet]

Tieflings ! It is just plain unfair that they get +/+/- on stats while their counterparts, the Aasimars, get +/+.

In my RL gaming group their ability boni are +2 dexterity and +2 charisma. And the planetouched are +1 LA templates.

It's 'bonuses'.

Boni means 'a political faction of the late Roman Republic.' Under no circumstances should you EVER. EVER. EVER. EVER pluralize Bonus in such a manner.

EVER.

And to anwser the OP, I dislike any LA race. The PHB has more than enough options.

[Fax Celestis]

It's 'bonuses'.

Boni means 'a political faction of the late Roman Republic.' Under no circumstances should you EVER. EVER. EVER. EVER pluralize Bonus in such a manner.

EVER.

And to anwser the OP, I dislike any LA race. The PHB has more than enough options.

Er. "Bonii" is correct.

[squishycube]

Actually the Tiefling and the Aasimar are pretty well balanced against each other: Dexterity and Intelligence are generally more useful than wisdom or charisma, Darkness is a lot more useful than Daylight, fire resistance is better than acid resistance (depends on campaign obviously, but Fire is usualy the most common). Personally I think Rogue is a better favored class to have, but that's not really mechanically true.
I hope I haven's spoilt your fun in your Zimmer in the Elfenbeinturm

I vote for the poor hobgobo.

Spelling discussion:
In the English language, traditional Latin rules of conjugation are not used. Therefore, forums is the correct plural of forum, bonuses is the correct plural of bonus.

But in Dutch and German (Which I think Amiria is), the Latin grammar is used: bonus - boni, forum - fora.
Bonii is certainly not correct, the double i only occurs if the original word has an -us end and an i before that, like radius - radii.

Since Amiria and I are headstrong, we use the Latin grammar even in English.
[/language geek mode]

[ken-do-nim]

I love lillends myself, but the +6 LA is a killer. Considering they are basically fighter/bards, with that +6 (making them equivalent to 13th level characters including their 7 levels of outsider) they can't fight well and can't cast well compared to their peers.

Here's a full 20-level build with lillend:
lillend (accounts for 13 levels)
4 bard (in order to qualify for eldritch knight, you need 3rd level spells, so you have to take that 1st level of bard. Once you've taken that you may as well take 3 more as the base attack bonus keeps going up and you get inspire greatness)
3 eldritch knight

So the result is, at 20th level you are a large-sized warrior with a base attack bonus of +13, less than even the cleric/rogue/monk classes, you have 12th level bard casting, and 10th level bardic music. Sure you've got great ability scores and can fly, but was it worth it?

[DaMullet]

Er. "Bonii" is correct.

Kindly show me where it says that. Anywhere.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bonus
According to that link, which I'm inclined to trust more than anyone here, it's Bonuses.

[Fax Celestis]

Kindly show me where it says that. Anywhere.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bonus
According to that link, which I'm inclined to trust more than anyone here, it's Bonuses.

I'm sorry, I misspoke. "Bona" is correct Latin, in the same vein as "medium/media" and "forum/fora". In English, however, "bonuses" (in the same vein as "forums") is correct.

[DaMullet]

I see. Thank you for divulging that piece of arcane lore, so I can bust it out at random moments. I don't speak latin, so I wasn't aware Bonus was a word in it, as well.

[Fax Celestis]

English has thieved a good deal of its literary history directly from Latin, though it also has roots in a wide variety of other romantic languages.

[squishycube]

no no no, while bonuses is indeed correct in English (like I mentioned in my previous post, words ending in -us do not become -a in plural:
singular - plural
servus - servi (male slave)
serva - servae (female slave)
forum - fora (gathering place thing)
bellum - bella (war)

[Amiria]

Aargh ! I had lessons in Latin and 'boni' is the latin nominative plural. Also in German, 'Bonüsse' is both wrong and sounds horrible. Bonuses is too similar for my taste.

(Maybe I confoud the noun with the adjective here, anyway, I stick to my opinion. Lalalalala I can't hear you lalalalala )

Go on people, there is nothing to see here. Post about crappy LA races.

[Fax Celestis]

See, now I'm all mixed up. Cheesus, the Dairy Messiah, is the only one who can save me now.

[squishycube]

Aargh ! I had lesson in Latin and 'boni' is the latin nominative plural. Also in German, 'Bonüsse' is both wrong and sounds horrible.

(Maybe I confoud the nound the adjective here, anyway, I stick to my opinion

lalalalala I cAn't hear you lalalalala )

Go on people, there is nothing to see here. post about crappy LA races.

Hear, hear. I does indeed sound horrible. But what's this LA thing you speak of? I vaguely remember something about it in the distant past.

Gobo, gobo

[Bears With Lasers]

It's gotta be vampire. +8?

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Spellwarped.

Not because it's bad. Because it's the single best LA race I can think of, and the most abused in my free LA games.

Fighter that wizards can't hit 50% of the time?!

[mikeejimbo]

no no no, while bonuses is indeed correct in English (like I mentioned in my previous post, words ending in -us do not become -a in plural:
singular - plural
servus - servi (male slave)
serva - servae (female slave)
forum - fora (gathering place thing)
bellum - bella (war)

No, but 'bonum' becomes 'bona.' It's 'cause it's neuter, and 2nd declension.

Now, if it was something like 'rebus' it wouldn't be 'rebi' because rebus is not 2nd declension. (Forget if it's fourth or fifth though)

Anyway, I don't like playing races with LA, so I wouldn't know.

[Amotis]

It's gotta be vampire. +8?

qft. I mean...what? They get medicore powers and a huge list of disadvantages. What?

[mooseofshadows]

Bonus is an adjective. It can be Bonus, Bona, Bonum, whatever, depending on the gender of the noun it modifies.

The only thing it means as a noun in latin is Good Man, which is Bonus.

If the word were to be made directly from latin it would be neuter.

Therefore, the word is made from latin but not latin itself. It can be used Bonuses.

[mikeejimbo]

Bonus is an adjective. It can be Bonus, Bona, Bonum, whatever, depending on the gender of the noun it modifies.

The only thing it means as a noun in latin is Good Man, which is Bonus.

If the word were to be made directly from latin it would be neuter.

Therefore, the word is made from latin but not latin itself. It can be used Bonuses.

So wouldn't "bona" be either "good woman" or "good things"?

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Good woman, good thing, what's the difference?

Hahaha, I'm going to get yelled at.

[Woot Spitum]

Any of the aquatic races. +1 LA just because you can breathe underwater? And can't breathe outside it? It gets worse if you are amphibious and can do both, automatic +2 LA.

[clericwithnogod]

Since someone brought up vampire, I'll bring up another template...

Dark Creature from Tome of Magic gives an unnamed bonus of +8 to Hide, Hide in Plain Sight and other really nice stuff for +1LA. Hard to imagine not taking it as a Rogue if it's an option.

[Turcano]

English has thieved a good deal of its literary history directly from Latin, though it also has roots in a wide variety of other romantic languages.

Influences, yes. Roots, not so much.

Also in German, 'Bonüsse' is both wrong and sounds horrible.

No, no, you've got to put the ess-zett in, so it's "Bonüße." See? Better.

And I just love the fact that a thread about LA turned into an argument over the proper plural for "bonus." Only on the internets...

[Mewtarthio]

See, now I'm all mixed up. Cheesus, the Dairy Messiah, is the only one who can save me now.

He arrives! And he's not too happy, either...

Anyway, I don't think Vampires are all that underpowered. Sure, they get some nasty weaknesses and anyone prepared to fight them can win, but as a PC you're intelligent enough to avoid those weaknesses. Really, the vunlerability to garlic is more of an advantage, since unless garlic mills spend a lot of money pushing perfume in your world, it serves as nothing more than a warning (eg, "These people have garlic; they must therefore know your weaknesses"). The staking thing isn't really a weakness at all: There aren't any rules for staking in combat, so it's basically just a method of permanently killing a vampire once you've got him in his coffin. Running water? Ha, good luck with that. Thanks to this nifty thing called "Gaseous Form," you never have to fight anyone near an acqueduct or river, and they'll definately find it difficult to get you grappled and submerged. Vulnerability to sunlight applies only to real sunlight, and no self-respecting vampire should be out past his deadtime. The only real limiting factor is your dependence on a coffin, which in a short, localised adventure isn't much of a downside. Oh, yes, and vulnerability to clerics, but all undead get that. The main unbalancing factor is your ability to control (albeit indirectly) a limitless number of vampire soldiers, including some which are actually more powerful than you.

That being said, +8 LA is just a tad harsh, particularly since that means 8 fewer Hit Dice to protect yourself from clerics. Given the huge gap between LA and CR, you probably won't be very effective in a fight. If you think it should be lowered, you could try houseruling it lower.

[Caelestion]

Well, you could treat a stake as a spiked club (piercing or bludgeoning depending on use) which, if it scores a critical on a vampire not wearing a breastplate, stakes the vampire.
When I was playing a vampire blackguard in 3.0, we came to the general consensus that no thrall could be of equal or higher level and you could only have as many thralls as you had HD.