Thought on Resurrection

[MrNexx]

For those who dislike the ease of Resurrection, I thought of a simple fix that at least makes them less common by making them more expensive.

Animate Dead requires a gem worth 25gp per HD. Why not require 1000gp worth of diamonds per HD of the raised individual?

[DaMullet]

As it stands, Raise Dead costs 5000 GP. Ressurection, a spell more powerful, costs twice that. I don't see exactly why is needs "fixxing."

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Depending on the campaign, it should be per ECL to keep things balanced.

[DaMullet]

The way I see it, by time you're at a level where Ressurection is a common enough spell to not need a quest for, death should be a minor inconvenience. Considering most monsters at that level deal enough per attack for a Fort Save v Massive Damage, and even more have Death Attacks, I think it should be at a quasi-affordable level. Of course, if you're playing an "ultra-gore" death campaign, then by all means make it nearly impossible to find.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

It really depends on the style you like.
Some prefer death to be a near ultimate thing or at least have serious repercussions (even without making it "'ultra-gore' death").

[Fax Celestis]

My players (and most of my characters) usually ignore the raise dead, resurrection, and other forms of non-undead-creating resurrection.

[Matthew]

Mine too, but then few of our games go beyond Level Nine or so...

[Fax Celestis]

Mine tend to hover around L13, but sometimes get as high as 18. I have yet to go epic.

[Shazzbaa]

Just give it a time limit and I'll be happy. You should never be able to raise someone who died over a year ago, IMO.

In fact, several months is pushing it.

[Matthew]

Sure, but then there are going to be those occasions where you want your main villain to be a resurrected warrior who died 10,000 years ago... or whatever. You could go looking for an Epic Spell, I suppose...

[Fax Celestis]

Just give it a time limit and I'll be happy. You should never be able to raise someone who died over a year ago, IMO.

In fact, several months is pushing it.

I would say that several days is pushing it.

[Shazzbaa]

I would say that several days is pushing it.

Heh, yeah.
Ideally, to me, the most powerful ressurrection spell doesn't reach much further than a week back. Make it 10 days to sound less arbitrary; I'd make it less if powerful ressurrection is common.

But then thinking about how that would be jumping from "10 years per caster level" to "10 days," I thought maybe there was some enormously important application I was missing.

Matthew -- yeah, I'd put that in Epic Spell territory -- after all, the PCs don't necessarily have to be able to do everything that the BBEG can.

[Ghostwalker]

I have always thought the 5000gp diamond should be flawless. After all it channelling your soul back into your body and if it has flaws there is a risk that it could not be transferred properly or some of other force get tangled up with the soul. And this could lead to all sorts of interesting problems.

[mikeejimbo]

You could also really make them roleplay why they want to come back

And give them a random quirk when they do, as per Heroes of Horror. Good times, good times.

[Steward]

Sure, but then there are going to be those occasions where you want your main villain to be a resurrected warrior who died 10,000 years ago... or whatever. You could go looking for an Epic Spell, I suppose...

You can use a Plot Device for that.

Cultist: Mwahahahah! Now that I have the Gem of Watoomb, which can EASILY resurrect any being and can only be used ONCE before disappearing FOREVER, I can easily bring my warrior back from the grave!

[Roland St. Jude]

I have always thought the 5000gp diamond should be flawless. After all it channelling your soul back into your body and if it has flaws there is a risk that it could not be transferred properly or some of other force get tangled up with the soul. And this could lead to all sorts of interesting problems.

It's not a 5000 gp diamond; it's "Diamonds worth a total of least 5,000 gp." Houseruling in a single gem requirement is a pretty common (attempted) fix. How much it helps depends how common gems are in your world and whether there's a gem market that makes finding one as easy as plunking down the 5K.

[jjpickar]

I don't even like the idea of there being a "bringing back from the dead" spell. I think resurrection should be a very rare occurrence. Like a plot device to bring back a horrible warrior dead these 10,000 years.

If my PCs die, I prefer them to reroll characters because it doesn't impose a penalty on the player who died. Especially, if he died as a result of some other PC's stupidity. If it was just him being stupid however... Oh yes! Reincarnated as a mongrel folk. Bwa hahahaha!

[Falkus]

If you remove resurrection, then you have to modify the massive damage rules, and severely tone down the existence of save or die affects. High level DnD is balanced on the assumption that resurrection spells will be available. If you remove them, then you upset that balance, and you have to compensate.

[Fax Celestis]

If you remove resurrection, then you have to modify the massive damage rules, and severely tone down the existence of save or die affects. High level DnD is balanced on the assumption that resurrection spells will be available. If you remove them, then you upset that balance, and you have to compensate.

No you don't. Your players learn to be careful.

[ExHunterEmerald]

I personally put way too much stuff into my characters to allow a bad roll to end them permanently. ...well, with dignity, I mean.
So if I deal with deaths people don't want, I'll try to run an afterlife side-quest for the dead character in question. Some time ago, MrSeth had a brilliant game called Enter the Abyss.

[MrNexx]

No you don't. Your players learn to be careful.

Precisely. AC and DR are your friends when 50 points kills you dead. What them scramble for those rings of Protection from Energy and coming up with items of damage reduction...

[Karsh]

For those who dislike the ease of Resurrection, I thought of a simple fix that at least makes them less common by making them more expensive.

Animate Dead requires a gem worth 25gp per HD. Why not require 1000gp worth of diamonds per HD of the raised individual?

Just because this hasn't been addressed yet... I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want Animate Dead to be cast on my character because I wouldn't be too keen on coming back as a zombie.

You're thinking Raise Dead, which is a flat rate of 5000 gp. An interesting question arises, though. If you went to a place where diamonds were common and bought a 1000 gp diamond, then teleported to a country on the other side of the world where diamonds were extremely rare and prized, and therefore 5 times as expensive (making the diamond technically worth 5000 gp), could you cast Raise Dead there with it?

[Wonderboy]

Just because this hasn't been addressed yet... I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want Animate Dead to be cast on my character because I wouldn't be too keen on coming back as a zombie.

You're thinking Raise Dead, which is a flat rate of 5000 gp. An interesting question arises, though. If you went to a place where diamonds were common and bought a 1000 gp diamond, then teleported to a country on the other side of the world where diamonds were extremely rare and prized, and therefore 5 times as expensive (making the diamond technically worth 5000 gp), could you cast Raise Dead there with it?

Even magic can't understand economics...

[Viscount Einstrauss]

I have my PC's roleplay coming back from the dead. Pretty much only my heroes get ressurected (outside of unique plot situations with BBEG's) and it's not typically by magic- the player has to find a way out of their afterlife. This usually involves swearing fealty to gods, making deals with devils, finding loopholes and escape routes from the heavens/hells, and sometimes either losing some of their original power when they get back (if they found a poor way back), or being gifted with brand new power from the planes (such as, in the most extreme and best cases, becoming a proxie).

[MrNexx]

Just because this hasn't been addressed yet... I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want Animate Dead to be cast on my character because I wouldn't be too keen on coming back as a zombie.

You're thinking Raise Dead, which is a flat rate of 5000 gp. An interesting question arises, though. If you went to a place where diamonds were common and bought a 1000 gp diamond, then teleported to a country on the other side of the world where diamonds were extremely rare and prized, and therefore 5 times as expensive (making the diamond technically worth 5000 gp), could you cast Raise Dead there with it?

I think you misunderstand me, Karsh, largely because I worded it poorly.

Animate Dead makes something of a precedent for spells requiring more valuable gems for bestowing their "gift" upon more powerful creatures. For a simple 1 HD skeleton, a 25gp opal works; for a 5HD skeleton, you need 5 of them. I'm simply extending this principle to Raise Dead, Resurrection, and similar magics.

[Sulecrist]

I use it by-the-book.

However, death is a horribly scarring experience. Few people want to come back from it--only the most driven people willingly leave the Shades, simply because their spirit falls into lethargy. If they're in the Afterlife proper, having been cremated or buried at sea, they can't be brought back at all without the personal interference of a greater deity. (There are two). Finally, people that do come back do so with fears, obsessions, and worse.

Most of my players would rather stay dead. Generally, when I bring an old character back, it's without the player knowing.

[Morty]

If someone is annoyed by ressurection, maybe take a look of this:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31994
That spell is designed to be used by someone who want to kill dead someone important and/or rich, who would have both the cleric and diamonds to perform ressurection if needed.

And besides, adjusting shorter time limit of ressurection is probably the simplest way. Not to mention diamonds are rather hard to find, and can't be bough on every market.

[MrNexx]

On the contrary, M0rt, diamonds are assumed to be available in every market that can support their cost. This is D&D. If you have a population of over a certain amount, you are assumed to have an economy which will produce anything the players desire within a given gold piece limit. That includes diamonds. And scrolls of raise dead, even if said town doesn't include a cleric of the appropriate level (but, mind you, they might; consult the table on determining who lives in the town and their level, and don't forget the town size modifier).

I'd give a DMG page reference, but I'm at work; it's the same place where they give GP limits for towns, in the World Building chapter, however, to narrow it down.

(FWIW, I will say that this does make a certain amount of sense for D&D; given the mobility of the "adventuring class", which most standard campaign worlds assumes to exist, it is not unreasonable that fairly rare objects would be found in places you wouldn't expect as some adventurer used them to buy or trade for something they wanted. In a game where an adventuring class does not exist, then it doesn't make as much sense.)

[Falkus]

No you don't. Your players learn to be careful.

Well, I guess we have different DMing styles. I believe that DnD is currently balanced fairly in a fun fashion for the players, and that, if through house rules, I upset that balance in one direction, I should take measures to restore the balance.

[Thomas]

Adjusting for resurrection is easy enough. Imprisonment, trap the soul, and soul bind already exist; if you must, just make spells of levels equal to the raise dead and resurrection spells that prevent it.

I also love - no, adore - desert binding, from Sandstorm. So cool. I'm positive other books contain more spells that imprison an opponent indefinitely, thus preventing resurrection.

RuneQuest's Glorantha has adjusted for regularly available resurrection: when the Red Emperor decides King Hrodar has to be destroyed, he doesn't kill the guy - he imprisons the King's might in a clay jar, and his life inside a box of mirrors. You can't resurrect him when he's not dead. It's epic, it's cool, and it makes for more plot and adventure.