persistent spell

[Splendor]

Question.

Can I use persistent spell to cast Persistent Haste on myself?
Question stems from it saying personal or fixed range.

[Douglas]

No. Haste has a range of Close, which is not personal or fixed.

[MrNexx]

Question.

Can I use persistent spell to cast Persistent Haste on myself?
Question stems from it saying personal or fixed range.

q.v. second post in thread.

Ironically, though, if you researched a personal version of Haste, it would be a lower level, making it easier to Persist upon yourself.

Isn't magic grand?

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Ironically, though, if you researched a personal version of Haste, it would be a lower level, making it easier to Persist upon yourself.

Isn't magic grand?

Or, if your gonna do that kind of thing anyway, just save yourself a feat or two and just outright research an 8th-level spell that grants you the benefits of haste for a full day.

[Bears With Lasers]

Swift Haste (level 2) is Personal-range. You can Persist that.

[Caelestion]

I doubt that there is any way short of insanity that you (general, not specific) can claim that a one-round spell (and low-level for that reason) can be persisted fairly.

[Bears With Lasers]

Um, "fairly"? It's a valid target, thus you can persist it. It's also lower-level because it only affects one person, not your whole party; I'd say that's worth a level drop, so yeah, it is fair.

[Fax Celestis]

Persistent swift haste sounds a bit oxymoronic.

[Caelestion]

A spell that only lasts for one round should NEVER be made persistent. That just screams of Wensleydale, Cheddar, Stilton, Brie, Gouda, Double Gloucester, Red Leicester, Camembert and every other cheese you could care to mention!

[Bears With Lasers]

Why not? Persistent Swift haste is actually well-balanced with a hypothetical Persistent Haste, which wouldn't exactly be an overpowering use of a 9th level slot.

[Caelestion]

It just feels wrong. A spell that only lasts one round should not be able to be adapted with a simple feat to last all day. A standard haste spell, by all means, but not a swift one.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I wouldn't exactly call a +6 spell level adjustment "simple". At least in-character anyway. It represents a pretty heavy effort on the part of the spellcaster.

Same goes for feats in general once you take into account how few most characters get.

[cupkeyk]

Musical Metamagic Persistent Swift Hasted half-elf RoD substitution level bard FTW. Gyukgyukgyuk

[Indon]

You know, if I ever had to deal with a character who was hasted all the time, I'd have to harken back to old AD&D and make them age faster.

[oriong]

Really, persistent swift haste isn't abusive at all. You're hasting an arcane spellcaster and spending a high level spell to do it.

Arcane casters are the ones that benefit the least from Haste, pretty much all they get is a +1 bonus to AC and reflex saves, and +30 to speed, for an 8th level spell. That's not very impressive.

[Ramza00]

Now persistent wraithstrike on the other hand is broken, not persistent swift haste.

There is another spell that works like wraithstrike but is the first ranged attack of the round. I am trying to remember what it is, which classes have it, and is it persistable.

[MrNexx]

Really, persistent swift haste isn't abusive at all. You're hasting an arcane spellcaster and spending a high level spell to do it.

Arcane casters are the ones that benefit the least from Haste, pretty much all they get is a +1 bonus to AC and reflex saves, and +30 to speed, for an 8th level spell. That's not very impressive.

OTOH, you might be hasting a Duskblade.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Really, persistent swift haste isn't abusive at all. You're hasting an arcane spellcaster and spending a high level spell to do it.

According to the WotC Spell index, swift haste is only on the Ranger spell list. So you'd be hasting a divine caster. A divine caster who has no 8th level spell slots without some major Epic feat investment.

OTOH, you might be hasting a Duskblade.

It's a personal spell, so the duskblade would have to cast it himself. And it's not on the duskblade spell list.

For a character to make a Persistent swift haste, that character would need:

• A level of Cleric
• Investment in Nightsticks or Extra Turning for 7+ turn attempts per day
• 3 additionalfeats (Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell))
• Wisdom 14+ and 8 ranger levels or Wisdom 12+ and 10 ranger levels

And at least the ranger levels would detract from any arcane spellcasting class or duskblade levels.

[Caelestion]

Well, that doesn't stop a wizard researching a 2nd-level personal-only version of haste. I don't have an issue with that version of the spell, but I just really don't like the idea of a one-round spell lasting all day, no matter what its eventual level!

[Thrawn183]

archivist... 'nuff said

[oriong]

Even in the case of the archivist you're hardly being abusive. It's still an 8th level spell whose primary use is combat being cast only on a non-combatant class (the archivist isn't as bad as the wizard/sorcerer but he's not even as good as the bard). So, it's hardly that big an issue.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Well, that doesn't stop a wizard researching a 2nd-level personal-only version of haste.

No, it doesn't. But, as has been pointed out, haste is a suboptimal buff for a wizard.

A cleric with divine power, on the other hand... Yeah, that's the character that'll benefit most from researching his or her own version.

I don't have an issue with that version of the spell, but I just really don't like the idea of a one-round spell lasting all day, no matter what its eventual level!

It's not all that different from a 1 min./level spell jumping up to effectively all day (fly to overland flight). And you'll note it is three times the spell-level increase.

[Caelestion]

There is a lot to be said for moving Divine Power onto the Paladin list only, as it is.

[squishycube]

I doubt that there is any way short of insanity that you (general, not specific) can claim that a one-round spell (and low-level for that reason) can be persisted fairly.

You know, the English language gives one a great, albeit slightly archaic, word to refer to a general person.
"One" is the word one uses to refer to a non-specific person. Don't you love it? :)

[Caelestion]

Heh. I can't even claim lateness of hour when I wrote that post, but yes, I had overlooked that word. Then again, people constantly complain that my prose is sesquipedalian!

[Sulecrist]

Heh. I can't even claim lateness of hour when I wrote that post, but yes, I had overlooked that word. Then again, people constantly complain that my prose is sesquipedalian!

No need to become atrabilarious, I'm sure your eleutherarchy will run on without disruption.

[Caelestion]

You superannuated nincompoop! How dare you have the temerity to insinuate that I am melancholy and somewhat disconnected from reality!

Churl, upon thy eyes I throw, all the power this charm doth owe, and when thou wakest, let love forbid Sleep his seat upon your eyelid. Awaken when I am gone, for I must now to Oberon.

[Douglas]

Am I going to have to get a dictionary to understand this conversation?

[squishycube]

Imagine how I feel, being the one who started it... What was the topic about again?

[Caelestion]

Persistent spells :) Then again Squishy, geriatric halfwits are without equal!