Race: +2 WIS or CHA with no LA

[shaka gl]

Is there any race with +2 to WISDOM/CHARISMA but no LA? Because lots of races have +2 on the other stats, but cannot seem to find one with WIS/CHA. I dont care if its official or not.

[Khantalas]

Spellscale. Though I may have misunderstood the question.

[squishycube]

If it doesn't need to be official, make it yourself.
You could take planetouched as a starting point. Be prepared for lots of yelling from narrow-minded rules fanatics though ("+2 to a mental stat warrants a +1 LA")

[Khantalas]

If it doesn't need to be official, make it yourself.
You could take planetouched as a starting point. Be prepared for lots of yelling from narrow-minded rules fanatics though ("+2 to a mental stat warrants a +1 LA")

And you give them our gray elves and spellscales as counter-examples.

Seriously, you need two mental stats to balance one physical stat, but mental stat bonuses require LAs? OMGWTFBBQ?

[shaka gl]

"+2 to a mental stat warrants a +1 LA"

Thats just plain silly... Sun Elves have +2 INT and are far from broken...

[Scorpina]

Lesser Aasmiar (Player's Guide to Faerun) have +2 to both Wisdom and Charisma, and a +0 level adjustment.

[Khantalas]

I believe one of the things that make aasimar a LA +1 race is the big shiny outsider (native) thing written on the type (subtype) line.

Hey, since when do people use charisma, anyway?

[Caelestion]

Equality for Blues! 1 pp does not an LA make!

[Douglas]

I believe one of the things that make aasimar a LA +1 race is the big shiny outsider (native) thing written on the type (subtype) line.

That seems to be the opinion of the people that wrote the Player's Guide to Faerun, too. Near the end of the book they have a "Lesser Aasimar" with no LA. The only difference is that the outsider (native) type is changed to humanoid (planetouched), therebye giving them the combined vulnerabilities of both the humanoid (charm person) and outsider (banishment) types.

[Khantalas]

Oh yeah. I have the book. That's why I stated that.

Otherwise, I would be clueless.

[Fax Celestis]

Equality for Blues! 1 pp does not an LA make!

Dromites too!

[Scorpina]

I believe one of the things that make aasimar a LA +1 race is the big shiny outsider (native) thing written on the type (subtype) line.

Hey, since when do people use charisma, anyway?

Hence 'Lesser' Aasimar. They're Humanoid (Planetouched) rather than Outsider (Native).

[Macrovore]

i don't like the lesser planetouched. even though they aren't different types, the stat bonuses are nice. and there are several other la +0 other typed races: dusklings, killoren, daelkyr half-blood, warforged, elans. 1 construct, 2 fey, and 2 abberations.

but i give half-elves +2 cha, and take away their bonuses to diplomacy and GI. it makes them less sucky.

[Bosh]

If it doesn't need to be official, make it yourself.
You could take planetouched as a starting point. Be prepared for lots of yelling from narrow-minded rules fanatics though ("+2 to a mental stat warrants a +1 LA")

+2 to a mental stat warrants a +1 La

And you give them our gray elves and spellscales as counter-examples.

Both of which are unblanced for 0 LA, but too weak for 1 LA. Like hobgoblins.

Seriously, you need two mental stats to balance one physical stat, but mental stat bonuses require LAs? OMGWTFBBQ?

Half-orcs got the shaft hard, it is known.

In any case having stat bonuses that balance does not equal a balanced race. A race that had -10 to cha and +10 to str would not be balanced and vice versa.

[Fax Celestis]

+2 to a mental stat warrants a +1 La

Except, you know, it doesn't. Even according to the DMG. +2 to a mental stat is worth -2 to just about any other stat.

[Fizban]

It comes from some idea that since casters are awesome, a race that grants a mental stat bonus "has" to have an LA. Which is ridiculous with the whole "physical stats are worth more" thing. Besides the Grey/Sun elves, and the spellscales, and who knows how many other WoTC approved LA0 races with mental bonuses (though usually with physical penalties that are unfair by their rules).

[Solaris]

Er . . . yeah, fair sure a mental ability score bonus doesn't warrant a +1 LA. If you go easy on the spiffy abilities, pretty sure you could give something a mental ability score bonus, no ability score penalties, and it wouldn't be all that unbalanced.
My own homebrew races aren't examples of this. I fie on game balance. But at least I know when I'm fieing on it.
http://z7.invisionfree.com/Crest_of_...p?showtopic=66
and
http://z7.invisionfree.com/Crest_of_...p?showtopic=49
include a couple of homebrew races that fit the bill, the magi and the ghost elves. (Ghost elves, I indirectly lifted primary components of the background story, name, and glowy skin from some Dragon article or another. If you're concerned about that stuff, change it.) The magi were designed for a campaign where they're the only humans who can cast wizard/sorcerer spells, so the arcane fatigue might not make sense in your game. At all. I advise handing them penalties to Strength and/or Constitution to balance 'em out after dropping arcane fatigue. Hack and butcher at those things as you please; I make no claim to something that cost me nothing to make and the large bulk of it was yoinked from one place or another.

[Bears With Lasers]

Try the Buomman, +2 WIS. The only problem is... they can't speak. You have to take Nonverbal Spellcasting to cast spells.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Anthromorphic bat or toad get +6 wisdom with no LA.

They're not really worth it though. Both have 5 ft. land speed though the bat has a 20 ft. fly speed (average) to make up for it. Bat is better than Toad due both having -4 strength and -2 charisma but the toad having -2 dex as well. Bat also has favoured class druid so -4 strength doesn't matter so much.

[Zincorium]

Anthromorphic bat or toad get +6 wisdom with no LA.

They're not really worth it though. Both have 5 ft. land speed though the bat has a 20 ft. fly speed (average) to make up for it. Bat is better than Toad due both having -4 strength and -2 charisma but the toad having -2 dex as well. Bat also has favoured class druid so -4 strength doesn't matter so much.

Yeah, the whole anthropomorphic animal thing is rather...wacky. Anthropormorphic bat druids do pwn though, since the wisdom bonus is massive and you aren't going to care about your strength once you get wild shape, and until then your magic fanged attack wolf will cover for you.

[Darrin]

Is there any race with +2 to WISDOM/CHARISMA but no LA? Because lots of races have +2 on the other stats, but cannot seem to find one with WIS/CHA. I dont care if its official or not.

Spellscale is generally considered optimal for Charisma builds (+2 Cha, -2 Con).

Star Elf would also be good, if you're not into lizards (+2 Cha, -2 Con). Also gets a ghost touch ability at night. They're 3.0, in Unapproachable East, which would normally be Faerun-specific but they're also extraplanar and not native to Faerun, so it's fairly plausable you might find them in another campaign setting.

The Magic-Blooded racial template (+0 LA) can be applied to any base race for +2 Cha, -2 Wis, but it sounds like you need Wis. If not, then a Magic-Blooded Star Elf could be interesting (+4 Cha, -2 Wis, -2 Con). For the racial templates, check Crystalkeep's 3.0 templates:

http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules...-Templates.pdf

The Tortle race from Mystara/Red Steel (updated to 3.5 in Dragon #315) I think has +2 Wis, can't remember the minus... can't seem to find any others.

Changeling from Dragon #304 has +2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Str, -2 Con, but it's 3.0 and I think it's been superceded with the Changeling in Eberron.

Here's something odd... Ice Para-Genasa (Dragon #297): +4 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Dex, -2 Cha. Chill metal 1/day.

[Person_Man]

These are all the races I know about with a Wis or Cha bonus and no LA:

Star Elf: +2 Cha, -2 Con, Unapproachable East.
Spellscale: +2 Cha, -2 Con, Races of the Dragon.

LA +0 Aasimar: +2 Cha.
LA+0 Feytouched: +2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Con.
(Both found on WotC website).

Buoman: +2 Wis, -2 Cha, Planar Handbook.
Vanara: -2 Str, +2 Int, +2 Wis, Oriental Adventures.
Jermlaine: -6 Str, +6 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Int, +6 Wis, -6 Cha, Monster Manual 2 (warning 3.0 often = broken).

[Kantolin]

Even according to the DMG. +2 to a mental stat is worth -2 to just about any other stat.

As an aside, the DMG in fact specifically states that a race with -2 Str +2 Cha would be underpowered, because strength is a more important stat than charisma.

So they claim. They then, after all, go on to suggest that +2 con, -2 str is underpowered, and then went and gave it to gnomes.

And nothing about their suggestion on balanced stats explains away goblins, kobolds, and Blues.

[Fizban]

Well you see....the designers of DnD don't really know how the rules they write work. They frequently give ridiculuously bad character advice, build builds that undermine themselves, and couldn't optimize their way out of a soggy paper bag. It's understandable that they don't get that mental stats are often more important than physical stats (since casters win DnD, yadda yadda yadd).

[Ninja Chocobo]

I never understood why so many people think Gnomes are underpowered. -2 Str and +2 Con is awesome for casters, as is Small size, as +1 to hit and to AC helps them quite a bit.

[Kantolin]

Well, personally, I don't find gnomes to be underpowered.

It's just that the DMG explicitly says "Do not give a race -2 Str, +2 Con, as that is an underpowered options"... and then gives it to gnomes.

The DMG at least pretends that they gave half-orcs two penalties to balance out the strength bonus, pretending this is necessary.

[Renegade Paladin]

Well you see....the designers of DnD don't really know how the rules they write work. They frequently give ridiculuously bad character advice, build builds that undermine themselves, and couldn't optimize their way out of a soggy paper bag. It's understandable that they don't get that mental stats are often more important than physical stats (since casters win DnD, yadda yadda yadd).

Tell me about it. How's an assassin with 10 INT grab you? I was flabbergasted to see that in Mysteries of the Moonsea; without all the assassin spells that Mr. Assassin 10 would ordinarily be entitled to, he was toast.