Feat for sneak-attacking undead?

[Argent]

Backstory:
In our current Evil Guy Campaign, our party has come under the control of a vampire that we (whoops) unwittingly released from an old temple. He's been using us to do his dirty work, thanks to his Dominate ability, and frankly, my character (a dwarven rogue) is getting tired of it.

So we're preparing to pants this guy sometime in the near future, and I'm looking to pick up a feat that will allow my sneak-attack ability to work on undead. I'd swear I've seen such a feat somewhere in the myriad of sourcebooks but can't find it -- can anyone assist?

[Saithis Bladewing]

I know there was a variant class concept in the DMG that took a ranger and pretty much mixed it with a rogue and made it themed to hunt undead, and it had a Sneak Attack that only worked against undead. Other than that, there's probably a feat like it somewhere but I don't know exactly where it would be.

[Fax Celestis]

There's a Cleric 2 spell that allows it. Gravestrike.

[shaka gl]

It wouldnt make any sense. I know catgirl`s lives are at risk here, but men, come on: if supposedly Sneak Attack is extra damage cause you get hurt in your vital organs, theres NO FRIKIN WAY you can hurt someone with no organs, no matter how good you are at dong it. As a DM, i wouldnt allow it. But if your DM says its cool, then take advantage...

[SpiderBrigade]

It's not necessarily "organs." Just a vital or weak spot in general. I'm not saying rogues should be sneak-attacking undead normally, but if they get special guidance from a spell or class ability, it's not completely unbelievable. I mean, you can sneak attack a Lantern Archon last I checked, and it's a ball of light.

[FdL]

No, sorry. In no way this should be allowable. If you do you are taking away one important, defining feature of undead AND it would not be sneak attack.

If this is in a splatbook I wouldn't allow it.

[Mewtarthio]

Agreed. It is so ridiculously overpowered that the defining class feature of the Rogue has the slightest chance of not becoming utterly useless when facing udead enemies.

[Aximili]

Of course undead can't take damage from being hit in vital organs, but they definetely have some weakspot. After all, the ranger can inflict extra damage when facing them. What's the problem of a trained rogue also knowing these weakspots?

[Ravyn]

http://www.giantitp.com/articles/5M5...bLfAHduZG.html

If Rich can turn the ability to sneak attack undead into a first-level class feature, even if the class in question is a prestige class, then making a feat out of it doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.

[clericwithnogod]

Grave Strike is 1st level for both clerics and paladins....but has a range of Personal. Just the thing for all those Paladin/Rogues out there. Someone put it in the Spell Compendium just to give rogues who find out their group is going to be playing a Ravenloft module a little false hope before kicking them in the tender area. If you're good at UMD, you could get a wand I guess....

I could have sworn I saw a feat recently that did something to allow sneak attack damage to undead, but it wasn't written that simply...some kind of more complex formula, but letting you apply sneak attack damage to things not normally susceptable to sneak attacks and/or critical hits...maybe a ranger/rogue feat combined with favored enemy or something. But, I can't remember where and could be wrong.

[Bears With Lasers]

No, sorry. In no way this should be allowable. If you do you are taking away one important, defining feature of undead AND it would not be sneak attack.

If this is in a splatbook I wouldn't allow it.

There are already myriad ways to take it away. You can hit the undead with a Spark of Life spell. You can cast Gravestrike. You could take the Skullclan Hunter prestige class and gain the ability.

I think that's probably too good for a single feat (it becomes a "must-have"), but your reasoning is terrible.

[FdL]

No it's not. You can take it as an opinion if you don't like it or don't understand it.

Thankfully there's plenty material out there so that everyone can choose what to use and what not. The OP asked about a feat to allow sneak attack to work on undead. Sneak attack doesn't work on undead by definition. Undead can't be sneak attacked by definition. Are there workarounds or prestige-class features that allow it? Fine, personally I don't like it and I won't.

[Aximili]

Definitions are very mutable. Specially when it comes to feats, spells, and class features.

[FdL]

Go for it if you like it. I simply understand it as a deviation from the rules, and one with which I don't agree.

[AtomicKitKat]

I don't see it as that much of a problem. I'd personally prefer it if say, Gravestrike allowed Sneak Attacks to work at half-strength or similar, since you'd have to aim for joints rather than the larger target of the torso. Making it work at half-strength also reduces the chance that someone would argue that their Arterial Strike/Crippling Strike/Hamstring attacks would work. Crippling Strike probably wouldn't just because it's Ability Damage. Arterial Strike may count as "wounding", which Undead should be immune to. Hamstring is the only one that I might conceivably allow to work.

[Person_Man]

Rogue damge progression (+1.75 per level) is slower then the damage progression of most other classes. Power Attack/Leap Attack/Shock Trooper, normal blaster spells, blaster spells + metamagic, Cleric buffs, Wildshape, Duskblade coolness, all of them can deal far more damage much more consistantly then a Rogue.

So yeah, maybe its a little too powerful for a feat. But there are already plenty of ways to do it with spells or prestige classes. I'd even be fine with it if it was part of some feat chain - maybe requiring 2 or 3 of the suck-tackular ambush feats from the Comp. Scoundrel. In fact, now that I think about it, a Ranger 1/Scout 3 with the Swift Hunter feat can apply their Skirmish damage to their Favored Enemy, even if its normally immune. So something similar for Ranger/Rogues wouldn't bother me too much.

[Jothki]

It wouldnt make any sense. I know catgirl`s lives are at risk here, but men, come on: if supposedly Sneak Attack is extra damage cause you get hurt in your vital organs, theres NO FRIKIN WAY you can hurt someone with no organs, no matter how good you are at dong it. As a DM, i wouldnt allow it. But if your DM says its cool, then take advantage...

Don't vampires pretty much still have organs? They're one of the more unusual forms of undead.

[oriong]

There are plenty of ways you could arguably sneak attack undead. Perhaps they have 'chakras' of energy that you can strike (with the knowledge, and perhaps supernatural abilities granted by the feat) that you can hit to disrupt their energy.

It's not overpowered, it's certainly not abusive, and it's not impossible to justify or explain either.

[The_Pope]

Don't vampires pretty much still have organs? They're one of the more unusual forms of undead.

Yeah, but they don't use them. They're just....there. All they need is their heart to keep working, and they're set.

I've even read a few splatbooks that explains that vampire organs (save for the heart) all evaporate when they become a vampire.

[Thomas]

Not an uncommon approach. I believe there's similar references in a lot of different "modern vampire mythologies" (Rice, V:tM...?). The organs are there, but they're dried out and useless. Definitely worthless targets for sharp objects.

[cupkeyk]

Uhh, Razing Strike from PHB2 lets you drop a divine spell and deal sneak damage to an Undead. Prereqs is caster level 5 and Sneak attack. So Cleric1 Rog1 could get it or a Ranger Rogue or a Paladin Rogue. So Clr1Rog4Skullclan Hunter1 Can Deal double his sneak attack dice plus 1d6 more for dropping a first level spell and flanking or catching a undead guy unaware since Razing Strike does not qualify as SA, so the two sources will stack.

[Thomas]

How could a Cleric 1/Rogue 1 get a feat that requires Caster Level 5th? And as a paladin or ranger, you'd have to be 10th-level to get that...

[oriong]

Practised Spellcaster?

[Dervag]

If a rogue has to go to the trouble of buying a feat just to extend their Sneak Attack ability to undead, given that they only get seven or eight feats in their entire non-epic level progression, I'd say that isn't unfair. It's not as if undead suddenly become totally powerless when confronted by sneak attackers, and the absence of sneak attacks makes a rogue virtually useless. No character should be virtually useless in any extended series of encounters (such as an undead module).

[Thomas]

Practised Spellcaster?

Practice Spellcaster can't bring your caster level above your character level. A Cleric 1/Rogue 1 with Practiced Spellcaster has a caster level of 2.

[Ramza00]

Not exactly what you are looking for but still very helpful. Undead Bane Weapon from the Spell Compedium. Cleric 4/Pal 3. Effectively it adds the Bane Undead Quality to a weapon for hours/lvl, touch spell. Great buff spells similar to GMW if you know you are going up against undead.

[ExHunterEmerald]

Load up on cure spells and spank him with them. From surprise, obviously.

[Fax Celestis]

If a rogue has to go to the trouble of buying a feat just to extend their Sneak Attack ability to undead, given that they only get seven or eight feats in their entire non-epic level progression, I'd say that isn't unfair. It's not as if undead suddenly become totally powerless when confronted by sneak attackers, and the absence of sneak attacks makes a rogue virtually useless. No character should be virtually useless in any extended series of encounters (such as an undead module).

Rogues actually have the potential for more than eight feats, since their later-level "Special Abilities" can be exchanged for any feat the Rogue qualifies for.

[Argent]

There's a Cleric 2 spell that allows it. Gravestrike.

Thanks, Fax - thought there was a feat, but I've heard of that spell. May have to talk to my party cleric about it (or Spark of Life).

And believe it or not, I'd ordinarily never allow sneak attacks versus undead either (even though I asked the question). To my mind, sneak attacks are about things like pressure points, weak spots in armor, puncturing vital organs... stuff that really won't affect undead. The only rationale I have for this case is story-based. At this point, our party's been enslaved by this vampire for quite a while now. He's drunk my character's blood on numerous occasions, treated the party like dirt and done everything but push us down in a mud puddle behind the monkey bars. The entire party's got a mad on for this guy like you wouldn't believe. So for storyline reasons, in this one case I could see it, even if there's no good physical rationale for it.

But since it doesn't sound feasible, even with Gravestrike, I may just have to try to stock up on Necklaces of Fireballs instead. Thanks to all who've weighed in on the question!

[Fax Celestis]

You could get a weapon of on-hit gravestrike