Question about Larger size Unarmed Damage

[Menarker]

Hello everyone.

I have devised a build that would allow me to deal massive melee damage via size upgrading a monk.

Normally, at level 20, a small monk does 2d8, medium does 2d10 and Large does 4d8, and this doesn't take strength into consideration. This is jolly impressive and all, but my build needs something more... robust.

I'm not going to reveal the details unless I really HAVE to, but at level 20, not equipped with any items, and only 1 rank in Monk, (The other class being a spellcaster and maybe 2 ranks in Fighter), the character would be Colossal sized and have a str of 50 assuming it start with 18 Str.

Now the table chart does not give a damage upgrade up higher than Large, so I wish to find out how much stronger the Monk's unarmed strikes would be. Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated.

And my other related question. Do monsters have to endure Massive Damage Fort saves or die just like players do?

Str Modifer is a whopping 20 at Str of 50.

^^ Thanks to all who take the time to figure this out.

[daggaz]

You do realize that any spells that increase size dont stack with eachother, right?

as the SRD says, 'Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack'

[oriong]

Unarmed damage scales just like weapon damage with size.

As a Collossal, level 1 monk you'll do 4d6 damage with an unarmed strike, if you get the improved natural attack feat this will go up to 6d6.

And yes, monsters have to deal with Massive Damage too.

[Ramza00]

check out page 28 of the DMG

[endersdouble]

A colossal creature doing damage as a Monk 1 will do 4d6 damage per strike. Look up the size increase tables. The general rule, however, once you're past single dice or the like, is to double the damage every two increase (alternate adding 1/2 and 1/3.)

Your super secret awesome build isn't all that good, frankly. Hell, I can make an 11th level build that does 6d8 without even /thinking/. at 20th level, I think the record is...well, I don't know offhand, but it's high. Very high.

[ken-do-nim]

I'm not sure super secret awesome builds are in the spirit of these forums anyway. I rather like the free flow of information.

The size chart:
2d10 -> 4d8 -> 6d8 -> 8d8 -> 12d8

My warforged monk/psionic fist with battlefist build got to 12d8 (see earlier post). In a nutshell: 2d10 start, then improved unarmed strike to 4d8, then battlefist to 6d8, then expansion two sizes to 12d8.

[Menarker]

You do realize that any spells that increase size dont stack with eachother, right?

as the SRD says, 'Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack'

Aye, but it's one spell, not multiple. Although I'll keep that in mind.

Anyhow, since I'm still quite VERY new to D&D, this is good. Thanks for the VERY prompt response. I'm impressed. ^^

And I'm making it secret in case my "buddies" look at this site and make the character before I do. ^^;

[endersdouble]

You mean you don't want them to know about your build which has a level of monk and enough Wizard casting for a CL16 (AFB, believe that's sufficient for Colossal) Greater Mighty Wallop?

Sorry, it just slipped out.

[ken-do-nim]

Aye, but it's one spell, not multiple. Although I'll keep that in mind.

Anyhow, since I'm still quite VERY new to D&D, this is good. Thanks for the VERY prompt response. I'm impressed. ^^

And I'm making it secret in case my "buddies" look at this site and make the character before I do. ^^;

A) There is no one secret sauce in D&D, except builds like Pun Pun which are unplayable, so I wouldn't worry that they'll steal your build.
B) I'm curious what you're up to. There is a private messaging feature here in the forum. If you don't want to post in public, message me.

Edit: Ah yes, Greater Mighty Wallop. Nevermind. I don't own the book that's in.

[oriong]

Yes...no one has ever heard of the 'giant size' spell...

Seriously, this is a bad idea. No melee combat build that relies on being a combat-crappy arcane spellcaster for at least 15 of your 20 levels is ever a good idea.

First, why are you a monk at all? A first level monk has an unarmed strike of 1d6. A wizard with a staff inflicts 1d6 damage too, or since you're a fighter why not actually get a weapon. A collossal sized greatsword inflicts 8d6 damage, without the extra feat and it'll multiply your strength bonus by 1.5.

EDIT: it's Giant Size, not Mighty Wallop, the +32 to strength gives it away.

[ken-do-nim]

What books are all these spells in (Giant Size, Mighty Wallop)?

[endersdouble]

Ah, right, forgot about the STR mod. Eh, I assumed he was doing something actually good. (It is quite possible to build a decent, if suboptimal, unarmed gish.)

[Ramza00]

Yes...no one has ever heard of the 'giant size' spell...

Seriously, this is a bad idea. No melee combat build that relies on being a combat-crappy arcane spellcaster for at least 15 of your 20 levels is ever a good idea.

Yes its just easier to be a Monk 1/Cleric 5/Sacred Fist 10/X 4 (not neccessary in that order) and then grab Giant Size through Miracle "duping/emulating." You can even persist it with Divine Metamagic Cheese.
----------------------------
But seriously just play a full monk till 11th lvl and just get Greater Mighty Wallop Cast on you by the party wizard. Or if you are going to be an arcanist, act like an arcanist

[Ramza00]

What books are all these spells in (Giant Size, Mighty Wallop)?

Races of the Dragon. It increases the damage size of a bludgeoning weapon for caster level/4 size increases (up to 5 or collosal) but the weapon size does not actually increase. Wiz/Sorc 3, lasts 1 hour per caster level.

[oriong]

Giant Size is a wu-jen spell from Complete Arcane.

[Closet_Skeleton]

You have any idea how unwieldy a collosal sized character is? You'll be really really uber when you can't fit through a door and can get outdamaged by a medium sized half orc with power attack,

[PinkysBrain]

And my other related question. Do monsters have to endure Massive Damage Fort saves or die just like players do?

Sure, but since it's a fixed DC and monsters tend to have high fort saves they don't fail very often.

[Tormsskull]

Anyhow, since I'm still quite VERY new to D&D, this is good. Thanks for the VERY prompt response. I'm impressed. ^^

If you are VERY new to D&D I suggest sitting down with your DM, explaining your plan, and see if it is even possible.

[Rigeld2]

You have any idea how unwieldy a collosal sized character is? You'll be really really uber when you can't fit through a door and can get outdamaged by a medium sized half orc with power attack,

If Giant Size is anything like Enlarge Person, get it cast while youre in a normal size stone corridor. If you dont burst out, you dont grow, but you still get the benefits.

[Roderick_BR]

I think people already said, but if you have only one level of monk, your starting unarmed attack is only 1d6. If you go Colossal, it won't go past, what? 2d8? A pure monk does more than that at 20th level.