I'm baffled by this

[Rebonack]

So... Righteous Might get nerfed down to +4 Str and +2 Con while Animal Growth remains the same.

Why does the Cleric spell get the shaft while the Druid spell goes untouched?

In other news, how would the fine people here feel if the range on Righteous Might was changed from personal to creature touched? Simultaneously gives martial types a nice buff and shoots down some of the Persistent cheese.

[Dr. Weasel]

Because 3.5 decided that druids no longer gain the animal type so it does not actually help them directly, thus nerfing them even harder than clerics?

[Rebonack]

They still have an animal companion.

There's no better way to make the Fighter feel useless than by giving out a class feature that fights better than they do.

[oriong]

Because it doesn't? an animal companion can be a decent combatant at low-to-mid levels, he'll outshine the fighter perhaps at levels 1-3, but not by much. At higher levels the animal can only meaningfully contribute with spells like animal growth, and even then it's not going to match a fighter or barbarian. I seriously doubt it could even threaten a paladin or ranger's combat ability.

By 20th level a magically enlarged T-rex or Dire Tiger may look impressive but they're also size Gargantuan and won't be able to go anywhere but the open fields or massively built structures. And even then the fighter is going to do a lot better than them.

[Dr. Weasel]

It does good things for animal companions, but some of its affects are lost because the companions generally have pretty crummy saves, armors and probably not as much awesome than a cleric does. Also, by the time you get it most damage is magic anyway.

Using this after summoning things is just gross, though, and does probably trump the cleric. (Animal Growthed rhinoceri (or moose if I read the alternate uses of rhino stats correctly) are pretty oscene, and that's not even getting very cheesy with the spell)

[Bears With Lasers]

By the time the animal companion stops being Fighter-quality, the Druid is a fighter-quality fighter when wildshaped.

[Rebonack]

A dire bear would actually make a better combatant than the T-Rex, but that's neither here nor there.

Considering the Fighter's magical gear and such he would be able to beat the bear. The previous post was more hyperbole than anything else. That doesn't lessen the fact that a critter with no less than 40 Str is a force to be reckoned with.

Anyway I would still like to know if anyone supports the idea of changing the range of Righteous Might to creature touched.

[Bears With Lasers]

Touch-range Righteous Might would certainly help lend credence to the cleric as support character.

[Raistlin1040]

They still have an animal companion.

There's no better way to make the Fighter feel useless than by giving out a class feature that fights better than they do.

Ahh but does the animal get bonus feats? No? Then the fighter has one advantage.

[Bears With Lasers]

In core, that's not much of one.
The animal companion gets abilities like "pounce" and "rake" and "Improved Grab" or "Trip".

[Raistlin1040]

...silence.

[Fax Celestis]

It's true!

[Raistlin1040]

Yeah alright. But in all seriousness I never take a bear or boar as a companion. I choose like a wolf or something that is useful without being a great fighter.

[Bears With Lasers]

Man, bears are freakin' awesome. If I could have a bear, I would. Even though my apartment has nowhere to keep it.

[Rebonack]

Then I think we can all agree that Righteous Might needs to be touch range.

Making Divine Power touch range and having it grant a +1 to BAB for every four hit dice the target has would be nice too...

[Bears With Lasers]

Okay, see, adding BAB above and beyond character level? Wrong.

[Fizban]

So, Rebonack is looking for support on his quest to change all personal cleric buffs to touch range cleric buffs? I think we will all agree, so stop asking specific spells and just slap it on all of then and be done with it.

[Rebonack]

Okay, see, adding BAB above and beyond character level? Wrong.

Why? It would grant the same degree of benefit to a martial type as it would to the Cleric. Plus five BAB at level 20.

I don't see any reason why this would be particularly unbalancing, care to explain?

[Quietus]

Why? It would grant the same degree of benefit to a martial type as it would to the Cleric. Plus five BAB at level 20.

I don't see any reason why this would be particularly unbalancing, care to explain?

By the base attack rules, that would theoretically give a fighter five attacks - not that that's really a problem - though I can't remember if they specifically said that you couldn't gain more than 4 in the PHB. I know they did in the Epic Level Handbook, but that's because you don't gain BASE attack there... You gain Epic Attack Bonus or something, which is different and isn't used to gain iterative attacks.

I think the idea of giving that opportunity to a fighty-type class would be fine. Sure, they make an extra attack... it's still going to be at a puny attack bonus compared to their first.

[Jack Mann]

I generally make the three big cleric buffs (Righteous Might and it's two friends, Divine Favor and Divine Power) touch instead of personal. I also use the cloistered cleric variant. Less fightery, more castery.

[Norsesmithy]

Jack Mann is a man after my own heart.

I gota know, though, would having a BAB (not bab+eab) of 30 or so give new iteritive attacks?

I have played it both ways.

[OzymandiasVolt]

[EDIT]

Forget what I said. The entry about BAB specifically states when you gain extra attacks, and it says you get four at "+16 or higher". It doesn't say you get an attack every five points, it specifically says when you get them.

Base Attack Bonus

A base attack bonus is an attack roll bonus derived from character class and level or creature type and Hit Dice (or combinations thereof). Base attack bonuses increase at different rates for different character classes and creature types. A second attack is gained when a base attack bonus reaches +6, a third with a base attack bonus of +11 or higher, and a fourth with a base attack bonus of +16 or higher. Base attack bonuses gained from different sources, such as when a character is a multiclass character, stack.

Ack, semisimuninja'd by Ursines with Coherent Light Weapons.

[Bears With Lasers]

Actually, no, you don't. BAB stops giving you iterative attacks once you have four. Them's the rules.