Magic: the Gathering RPG?

[Shadow of the Sun]

I am just wondering, is there a Magic: the Gathering RPG yet, and if there isn't, why not? I can see a lot of creative potential for some interesting stuff, and a new campaign would turn up every 2 years or so. The only problem I could see is he magic system, but they already have races, an excellent alignment system (the colours) and the classes would be fairly easy to make.

I could see this as a derivative of GURPS, but it would be a hell of a lot better as a stand alone system.

[oriong]

It would be interesting, but I think it would only really work as a setting. The main problem is that the primary mechanics behind Magic are set at an insanely high power level.

The planeswalker scale battles are clearly full of crazy madness simply because they're people who can summon armies and sink continents with a single spell. They're pretty nuts just by definition. A highly abstract system might be able to handle it, but it would approach something more like a board game with role-playing.

Even on the 'summoned creatures' end of things you get some nuts stuff. For instance the prodigal sorcer apparently has the power to simply slay a whole group of men with little effort, and more powerful cards could wipe out armies.

Not impossible but I can see it being a mechanical nightmare, there just doesn't seem to be any 'low level' scale to Magic.

[Dervag]

Right. Magic: The Gathering card games are clearly set up to reflect battles between wizards who have power on the scale of nations, if not more. All those 'lands' they draw power from? I'm guessing that those have to be pretty big lands.

Human soldiers, even good ones, are flatly outclassed by all manner of powerful creatures which are in turn outclassed by all manner of spells that can kill them in a heartbeat. It's too lethal an environment for anyone other than the powerful mages that are summoning the creatures and casting the spells.

[Jade_Tarem]

That and the "alignment by color" thing changes from setting to setting. Remember the Krosan units? They're all twisted, evil, mutated GREEN creatures that enjoy destruction and corruption and like to eat things even when they're not hungry. Conversely, Green is typically the woodsy neutral types, or even good, as it seemed to be in Mirrodin.

I can see the power system getting resolved two ways:

1. The PC's are as they are in Magic. That is to say, you won't be playing Loxodon Mystic, you'll be playing a warlord type. This turns it into a RPG/Strategy game, though, of even more complexity than MTG.

2. Everyone plays low-power units. We're talking power 1, here. I have no clue how you would level up, but we'll leave it at that...

I don't even want to know how you would play in the Ravnaca Setting. "See, I work with the Good/Evil people, who are kinda lawful but really corrupt, and like to help and enslave people at the same time. Don't look at me like that, the alternative was those crazy Izzet types."

[oriong]

I don't think the 'color=alignment' thing works. You've got Gold cards that cross multiple opposing colors after all. I think it would just have to stick with 'flavors' of energy, which may have their own tendencies towards nastiness or niceness.

I think magic could be the inspiration for a very interesting setting and game system, but it would have to happen completely below the scale of the normal card game (possibly rising as high as a 2/2 at near epic levels!). The color and land system could serve as an inspiration for a cool spellcasting system similar to the Arena book (which didn't have quite the same level of earth-shattering power as the card game).

Or it might be some odd, uber-powered version of Ars Magica, where the assumption is that everyone is some uber-mage, with perhaps some cohorts along for the ride, facing uber-mage level problems.

[That Lanky Bugger]

Having read (and enjoyed!) Magic: The Gathering Arena, I believe it would be easy to create a system around which you could roleplay the game. However, I think for the most part if you're going to RP Magic: The Gathering you may as well just use the game itself and roleplay everything in between.

[AngelSword]

I've come across a document that attempted to create rules for the Five Colors, and the classes that cast them. A player would choose one of the five colors, and would be a mage (Blue Mage, Red Mage, and the like).

Granted, nothing was fleshed out all that well (or elaborately, for that matter).

Now, I love the setting, and would be willing to turn it into a d20 thing. I've already tried, since I really dig slivers.

[TheThan]

If you base it off the concept that the players are wizards battling each other, you end up with Yu-Gi-OH the RPG and I don’t think many people would find it interesting at all. Instead what is needed is a way to incorporate aspects of the game into whatever classes and races we come up with. I see instances and sorceries becoming spells and abilities like haste and first strike becoming class abilities for whatever classes exist. Creatures could easily become the monsters for the players to battle against, artifacts can be the equipment they carry, both magical objects and weapons and armor, lands could easily be cities, towns and other places to explore. For example:

A group of heroes travel through the plains and take refuge for the night in an abandoned outpost, when suddenly a Savanna Lion leaps out and attacks them.

Now the biggest problem is that magic: the gathering is constantly changing. Every four or so months there’s a new set out. So whatever classes, races, creatures and artifacts will become out dated very fast. Solving this problem is not easy but it can be done, you can stick with a certain block, or you can base it off of a certain plane, there’s lots of ways to do this.

Now the great thing is that we have a fully realized world, and several partially realized ones, so a lot of work has been done, in fact here’s a link or two to show how much has already been done:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...ing_characters

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominaria

[Starblade]

Im so interested in this. If you get this going I want in!

My opinnion is that you are probably going to have to run it from the prospective of. You the player ARE a card. Likley a ledgend. You would be tromping about the lands of dominaria taking on various other monsters etc. Best example i can think of is a Warcraft 3 Mod Map. Where somone made heros based on the magic cards. Your abilities came to you as you leveled up and you could buy Artifacts and equipment from the shops. It was my favorite mod accept for the fact that it had some bugs that made some characters totaly overpowered. Sometimes invincible. Wizards also made a Xbox game you might use for ideas?

[Shadow of the Sun]

That would be DOTA Allstars Starblade. The concept I was having of this would be people living in the realm while the players are screwing around with it and having to deal with the consequences. A character in the RPG may eventually reach Planeswalker status, he may not. Power would probably not be based on the card game- balance goes out the window if it is, but the setting, and some mechanics are the same (the colours, magic etc.)

[AngelSword]

If you base it off the concept that the players are wizards battling each other, you end up with Yu-Gi-OH the RPG and I don’t think many people would find it interesting at all.

While I don't agree with this sentiment, I do agree that a Yu-Gi-Oh RPG would be incredibly boring, since its world is based solely on the card game.

The idea of spellcasters being broken up by color is not a bad idea, though. One could rework the wizard (and sorcerers, if they fit) to make them akin to specialist, granting them benefits and detriments as determined by the color pie.

This, of course, implies that there are other classes as well. The issue, though, is figuring out how to make them make sense.

[oriong]

I really don't think Magic: The RPGING should be based off of D+D, or even the D20 system in general.

If we were just talking about the 'low-power' setting where anyone pre-epic is unlikely to appear as a 'card' level creature then it would be one thing. At that point it's not unfair to say 'this guy could be an X level ranger' and so on. You'd basically be playing D+D, in a different setting with perhaps a new magic system (or more likely the normal magic system with the 'schools' transformed into 'colors').

However, if you actually attempt to play it anywhere near the scale it appears in the card game itself: as either a legendary 'card' character or an actual 'card-user' (note, I'm using these from the perspective of the card game, not actually trying to claim that the in-game system will involve cards : P) you need a different option. D+D mechanics only work so well outside of 'heroic high fantasy'. When you get into 'world shaking epic' then they tend to break down a whole lot, especially when lots of magic is involved. A new system would be the best way.

[Red Sky Knight]

For the purpose of describinbg how things work in the story lines, where characters with lowelr p/t were able to slay those with higher p/t; it has been stated that the mechanics of combat have been very simplified and dont really reflect the state of the world; the prodigal would not necessarily be able to take out whole units, and planeswalkers are very, very rare. besides the implications of the mtg mechanics, presumeably, dominaria and other places go on from day to day without caring about a planeswalker, or a prodigal sorcerer for that matter.

the settings themselves could be developed for dnd campaigns, with great flavour and a host of new monsters, places and mystical places and npcs that could largely ignore the mechanics, using only slightly modified dnd mechanics to give a feel for how the mtg multiverse is intended to work

[axraelshelm]

buds it's going to be council of planewalkers getting together to save worlds or to rule them.
We need a game of epic scale even just starting it.
I think it wont be in the spirit of magic the gathering otherwise and in the end there are other planeswalkers to fight and magical artifacts to be had.
The stuff of legend. If everythings available that was in card i would so get the Legacy weapon "i have a 5 colour deck that works"

[Red Sky Knight]

There is more to Magic then magic. What about the Kavu or the order of the ebon hand? Flying ships and the mirari? the arenas of the cabal, the krosan forest or the badlands?

[oriong]

I guess it really comes down to whether or not you want Magic the game or Magic the setting.

The setting is easily doable, it doesn't take much beyond some custom races, and maybe some modifications to the spellcasting system. The sheer number of 'settings' from Magic would fill many, many books but I imagine that only about 1/3rd of the ones available are actually worth putting out as 'full' settings. This can be done with absolutely straightforward D+D mechanics.

The game (as in, an RPG that in some way emulates what happens in the card game) is what will give you hell.

[axraelshelm]

There is more to Magic then magic. What about the Kavu or the order of the ebon hand? Flying ships and the mirari? the arenas of the cabal, the krosan forest or the badlands?

Penisous deed. tick tick tick boom! all of them then stone rain forest!

[AngelSword]

There is more to Magic then magic. What about the Kavu or the order of the ebon hand? Flying ships and the mirari? the arenas of the cabal, the krosan forest or the badlands?

That's exactly what I was saying. Slightly altering casters would be the only thing you'd need to do to attain the feel of the game without the (literally) groundbreaking effects of planeswalkers.

I guess there'd also be a greater emphasis on magic item use. Despite the aftermath of the Brothers War, people still rely on the artificiers to make life easier.


Now that I think about it, therer's a bit that can be taken from Eberron, if it's needed.

[TheThan]

Yes I agree with making it a setting, trying to emulate the card game in an rpg is going to be very difficult and essentially pointless, when you can just go and play the card game. but I love the idea of it being a setting, where players can explore the rich worlds that have been created already.

While the decision on what type of system to use is still in the air, I have some ideas for use with a dnd 3.5 version. We could easily get the feel for the land/mana system by simply incorporating the spell point system , instead of the standard spell slot system, or we could use Recharge Magic instead. It doesn’t matter to me much, but I am a bit partial to the spell point system.

I don’t think is necessary to break alignment up by color, but we could incorporate colors into the spell caster classes. For example Jaya Ballard is clearly a red wizard, since she focuses on fire spells. We could do this by making spell casters focus (kind of like school specialization), or we could completely rework the classes from scratch. This last solution would not be easy but it might be a better option than squeezing the color wheel into a system that doesn’t already support it.

[oriong]

I think there's nothing that would go wrong if the spells were just reworked by Color rather than by School. A few might be classified as 'multi-color' as well, or some like conjuration spells might change color depending on the creature summoned.

[TheThan]

Hmm maybe the easiest thing to do is to give each spell a color descriptor, like blue, black, green, red, and white.

For example fireball could look like this:
Fireball
Evocation [Fire, Red]
Level:Sor/Wiz 3
Components:V, S, M
Casting Time:1 standard action
Range:Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area:20-ft.-radius spread
Duration:Instantaneous
Saving Throw:Reflex half
Spell Resistance:Yes

The problem is figuring out what each color descriptor would mean, nmm.

[Orzel]

MTG classes are more thematic than color based. Thier magic use, special abilities and weapon and armor profiencies is base on the faction's theme. Most of MTG's settings is 5-10 different factions in a 3+ sided war. The civilized factins have soldiers and wizards. The primitive groups have warriors and shaman. Then there's druids, clerics, barbarians, knights rogues and others.

The setting and plane would need to be fleshed out by it could work 3.5. Most classes would work the same but many would get name changes and split. With the way WotC handle the colors, you wouldn't even need to change the spell list.

Really renaming sorcerers to shaman; paladins to knights; rangers to scouts; splitting fighters into soldiers and warriors; dropping turning, smiting, wild shape, animal companions, and bards; and stealing 1 spell per level from each full caster; that's like 1/2 the major changes.

[oriong]

Why would any of those changes be necessary? None of them seem like they need to be dropped, they all fit perfectly well into the ideas of the magic system.

[Orzel]

Turning, Smiting, Wild shape, Animal companions, and Bardsare not common in the classes they would be in MTG. They would be feats or PrCs if included. I remember when I tried to find bard references to make a Elan card. Tough times. MTG is like DnD with NPC classes. Nonlegendary folk are often simplistic losers.

[TheThan]

Why would any of those changes be necessary? None of them seem like they need to be dropped, they all fit perfectly well into the ideas of the magic system.

Those changes are necessary to get the right feel we’re looking for. We want to essentially recreate Dominaria (or whatever plane is chosen) for players to adventure in.

[Dhavaer]

Turning, Smiting, Wild shape, Animal companions, and Bardsare not common in the classes they would be in MTG.

There's at least one example of a Wild Shaping druid in the cards. I don't recall the name, but the flavour text was: He exercises his right to bear arms.

[Selgeron]

what if you made a setting wherein various things happen in the world of Magic but the actual wizard/players are the Gods Themselves...

I mean honestly, they have a huge stack of abilities, START at 20 hitpoints.

But how many wizards are there...really...


Think of it like this. You have a few nations, each nation has its own patron god (Wizard player type). The god tells you what to do. So lets say you're playing as i dunno a goblin warrior with your goblin warrior party. Your job is to run in and kill some giant tree beast thats been savaging the mountains. You go on an adventure through the mountains maybe fighting some various things, then fighting an elf or two making it through the forest finding where the tree beasty is, what its weakness is by listening in on it... Then you kill it. Theres a days adventure

Of course in the magic the gathering campaign that was the equivilent of tapping one card.


So the only way it would work is if the wizards were nation controlling kings or gods or something that were entirely abstract, and you would work for them.


Alternatively you could just scrap the whole wizards thingy, and just make a setting with various monsters as your monsters and just run normal D&D with them.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

I did this once. The players all had to play as planeswalkers as a special sort of class I made up the stats for. Spellcasting, firstly, was deck-based. You actually drew a hand to get your spells and such. Spell levels determined what the maximum cost of any one card you had could be, as well as how many cards, total, your deck could have. Mana wasn't included in your deck; this was handled seperately, as an increasing daily usage pool. Each level, you picked a couple new lands for yourself. I think five/level (remember, these were BY DAY usage). Unless you specialized in a particular color, in which case all other colors were barred from you and you got seven/level. You obtained new cards for your deck by scribing them just like a wizard's spellbook, except that I physically hand you a card afterwards and you put it in your deck (or not, if you simply think it'll be handy for a later daily deck). Summons lasted until you either dispell them, sleep for more then one hour, or a day passes. A summon's HD was always handled based on it's casting cost (determines the dice size, from 1d4 (1 mana) to a maximum of d12 (5+ mana) multiplied by their toughness (constitution was never even thought of, and their saving throws were their toughness straight). Attack and damage bonuses were always the power of the creature, and their damage dice was calculated based on their casting cost as well (no maximum, I had to use the size charts a lot of times for the heavy hitters. Damn Leviathan...).

Spell combat was suddenly dynamic and pretty interesting.

[ishi]

There's at least one example of a Wild Shaping druid in the cards. I don't recall the name, but the flavour text was: He exercises his right to bear arms.

That's the Werebear, so I guess it's a lycanthrope rather than a wildeshape-esque shifter. There's probably a druid shifter somewhere, though...

[TheThan]

what if you made a setting wherein various things happen in the world of Magic but the actual wizard/players are the Gods Themselves...

I mean honestly, they have a huge stack of abilities, START at 20 hitpoints.

But how many wizards are there...really...


Think of it like this. You have a few nations, each nation has its own patron god (Wizard player type). The god tells you what to do. So lets say you're playing as i dunno a goblin warrior with your goblin warrior party. Your job is to run in and kill some giant tree beast thats been savaging the mountains. You go on an adventure through the mountains maybe fighting some various things, then fighting an elf or two making it through the forest finding where the tree beasty is, what its weakness is by listening in on it... Then you kill it. Theres a days adventure

Of course in the magic the gathering campaign that was the equivilent of tapping one card.


So the only way it would work is if the wizards were nation controlling kings or gods or something that were entirely abstract, and you would work for them.


Alternatively you could just scrap the whole wizards thingy, and just make a setting with various monsters as your monsters and just run normal D&D with them.

There’s 266 cards with the wizard type, so quite a few really.

but seriously I think the best way to go is to make it into a campaign setting.