Vile darkness feat

[Moses]

I am making a disciple of Asmodeus as a BBEG and one of the feats needed is Evil Brand.

Evil Brand-The character is physically marked forever as a servant of an evil power greater than herself or as a villain who does not care who knows that she seeks only death, destruction, and misery for others. The symbol is unquestionable in its perversity, depicting a depravity so unthinkable that all who see it know beyond a doubt that the bearer is forever in the sway of the blackest powers. Benefit: Evil creatures automatically recognize the symbol now emblazoned upon the character as a sign of her utter depravity or discipleship to a powerful patron, although the specific identity of the patron is not revealed. She gains a +2 circumstance bonus on diplomacy and intimidate checks made against evil creatures.

I was wonder what people think is this brand something one can cover-up either via some sort of clothing or magical means or is it something that the person just would not do or just cant do (it appears through clothing or some transmutaion spell).

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Since the brand itself gives no disadvantage, I see no problem with allowing a character to hide the brand, stripping themselves of its advantage in so doing.

[Kesnit]

If you go so far as to having yourself branded, you are obviously very proud of your evil and feel no need to hide it. So I would say it is something that is always visible.

But that's just me.

[Moses]

it is not that they are not proud of the brand it is the need to hide it to do the bidding of the devil or demon whos bidding they are doing

[Telonius]

I'd think you can cover it up, by magical or mundane means. The feat text doesn't say you can't, so I'd allow a cover-up. If you wanted to take advantage of its ability, you have to uncover it. Evil beings would have to see it in order for it to work, so it would have to be in a place where it could conceivably be seen. (No branding the guy on the inside of his nose or something like that). I could see some sort of covert evil guy having one of these; like the king's supposedly honorable advisor really being a diabolical fiend.

[SpiderBrigade]

Yeah, obviously the demon princes don't read the Evil Overlord list. But I'd say you can definitely conceal the thing, and if you want to get the bonus with evil creatures, you could just pull up your sleeve or whatever and show them your unholy mark.

I also think it's really amusing that the mark is inherently, obviously evil, but you don't get any kind of penalty when dealing with good creatures. You'd think you'd have trouble getting along with clerics of Pelor if they noticed that you had the CORRUPTING MARK OF ASMODEUS on you.

[Piccamo]

The brand should have to be in a place that could be noticeable, but certainly not required to be visible at all times. You simply lose your bonus while its not apparent.

[kamikasei]

Have you read any of the later Harry Potter books? I'm thinking of the "Dark Mark" that Voldemort's henchmen bear, and which many of them have tattooed on their inner arm, so that they can identify themselves to one another by rolling up their sleeve.

Yeah, I find it odd how the fluff says "all who see it know beyond a doubt that the bearer is forever in the sway of the blackest powers", but under the Benefit it only says that Evil creatures recognize it.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Well, it appears by "all who see it," they mean "all evil creatures who see it." Otherwise there'd certainly be a penalty when dealing with Good creatures, and maybe a slightly higher bonus from the benefit to counteract that penalty. As it is, even without the penalty, it's not even as good as other +2 to two skill feats.

I'd suggest allowing a Knowledge (religion) check for Good characters to recognize the mark and allow for appropriate circumstance penalties in interacting with such a good character that recognizes it.

On occasion, I'd probably also want to allow the occasional Evil character that believes itself to be Good to have a reaction opposite that intended.

[kamikasei]

Well, it appears by "all who see it," they mean "all evil creatures who see it." Otherwise there'd certainly be a penalty when dealing with Good creatures, and maybe a slightly higher bonus from the benefit to counteract that penalty. As it is, even without the penalty, it's not even as good as other +2 to two skill feats.

I'd suggest allowing a Knowledge (religion) check for Good characters to recognize the mark and allow for appropriate circumstance penalties in interacting with such a good character that recognizes it.

That's what I mean, though - the fluff describes it as inherently and obviously evil, but only Evil people recognize what it implies... even though all it implies is eeeevil, not anything specific about a patron or cause.

It's like a guy infused with magical energy who walks around with an ever-shifting nimbus of eldrich light over his head, visible to all - but only magic-users who see him would say 'gosh there must be something magical going on there'.

[headwarpage]

That's what I mean, though - the fluff describes it as inherently and obviously evil, but only Evil people recognize what it implies... even though all it implies is eeeevil, not anything specific about a patron or cause.

It's like a guy infused with magical energy who walks around with an ever-shifting nimbus of eldrich light over his head, visible to all - but only magic-users who see him would say 'gosh there must be something magical going on there'.

It's a little strange, but it makes sense if you squint your brain at it just right. It probably just looks like a tattoo to non-evil characters, but evil characters looking at it know it's evil. Think of it as sort of the opposite of a Detect Evil spell... kind of. It projects your evilness to any evil people who see it. It's not that they recognize the mark itself, but the mystical power of the mark makes them aware that you are just that Evil.

Actually, I might even rule that the physical mark can be covered up, but the effect cannot be suppressed. Every Evil person who sees you knows you're extremely Evil. They just know, even if they can't see the physical mark. Non-evil people don't notice anything special. They either don't see the mark (depending on where it is and what you're wearing) or assume it's just a tattoo, though a Knowledge: Religion check might apply.

[Jukashi]

Possibly some sort of Evil Resonance is involved. Perhaps it's so evil, it's utterly incomprehensible and alien to good and neautral creatures- like a stick figure person being unable to understand three-dimensional physics. Only those who have evil in their own hearts can even encompass the enormity of the mark's evil in their minds.

If that was the way it was, other creatures wouldn't even see the mark- their eyes would just slide over it, their mnd filling in the blank spot that it is not capable of registering.

[Moses]

thanks guys for all the responses i am going to have to think about how i want to deal with it but you have giving me a lot more ideas as to the way the mark will affect people.

[illithid13]

The way I see it is that it is an odvious self-inflicted brand that is grotesque in nature so that those who are non-evil and see the brand get an uneasy feeling about it, Kind of supernatural, kind of predgustic for being different and wierd.

Also the mark should be something that is recognizable as socially unkoshure (sp?). I think that part of this brand is to help intimidate the "locals" into being a little more respectful/fearful of them due to the power that they represent. Kind of like something that they wear as a source of pride similar to sports paraphanaila at sporting events.

I think that the way the fluff is worded is a result of poor editing.