Deification rules

[Pantler]

Do you use (or know) any rules that allow PCs to reach godhood? Or at least become quasi-deities? Or do you loathe the idea?

[Rahdjan]

I loathe it

[Fhaolan]

Do you use (or know) any rules that allow PCs to reach godhood? Or at least become quasi-deities? Or do you loathe the idea?

Depends on how far back in rulesets you want to go. The 3.0 version of Deities and Demigods had some 'handwavium' kind of rules for it. 2nd edition and 1st edition Deities & Demigods, the same. Back in OD&D there was the Immortals ruleset that was all about this.

Personally, I don't think D&D scales up to Epic properly, let alone Immortal rules.

[Thomas]

Rules? No way.

It's a fine goal, but I would and will always remove any PC that gets there from the game. There's no fun to be had playing gods, in my view.

The concept is an established, even integral part of most FRPG worlds I play in (Glorantha and Faerûn), and it'd be pretty cheap to deny it from players when I encourage powergaming and really high-level gaming. (Even if D&D's epic level rules suck. "Everyone who didn't take Epic Spellcasting, raise your hands. Okay, you guys can all go home. You lost D&D.")


It's "easy" enough, from a DMing point of view. The player has to do all the planning and work. You usually need extraordinary heroics (on the "defeating deities" level), artifact-power items, a "divine sponsor," and so on. In Glorantha, it's not that hard to become a minor deity (and there actually are some mechanics, more or less). In Faerûn, it's happened a lot - usually when a previous deity is killed and someone is needed to take up the portfolio.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

The rules for athieving deityhood will vary from campaign to campaign. There are no set rules, though Deities and Demigods does contain a set of different suggestions.

The most common techniques for achieving deityhood in most D&D-related story are usually through obtaining worshipers or slaying a god in combat. The first is particualry well-supported from a "generic D&D" point of view. Vecna, from the PHB, became a deity simply through the sheer number of cults that gathered to worship his spirit sometime after he was destroyed by his lieutenant, Kas.

Of course, then the standard Greyhawk setting also has Zagyg who was simply elevated to deity status by the will of other deities, even though he didn't have any worshipers at the time.

I'm not clear on all the details, but the Forgotten Realms takes a similar idea a step further. Mortals can only become deities through the intervention of Ao, the overdeity. Ao is a god to the other gods. As such, mortals are so far below him, that it's nearly impossible to get his attention to achieve the blessing. The only incident(s) of which I am aware of mortals ascending to godhood in that setting are those taking place during the Time of Troubles. In particular, there's Cyric, who actually killed at least one of the deities whose portfolios he assumed after being granted godhood.

Then, of course, there are settings like Eberron and Dark Sun, which lack true deities in the usual sense. So achieving godhood is pretty much impossible.

Anyway, all this comes down to the following: try and figure out what works best in your campaign, based upon how the pantheon you use operates. There are no hard and fast rules. It's all up to the DM.

[That Lanky Bugger]

I thought this topic said something else for a minute...

Anyway, as Thomas pointed out, I generally don't worry about things once players reach godhood. They're either going to be out of the game, or powerful enough to do pretty much whatever they feel like.

[Skyserpent]

No... no... Godhood for PCs? No... the DM should be the only God...

[Sardia]

I wouldn't be too quick to say playing gods would be boring for the players or the GM. Consider what something akin to the Trojan war could be like as a setting with players as sub-Zeus deities: the players support one side or the other, curry favor with more powerful gods, manipulate mortals to achieve their ends, and occasionally just throw down on the battlefield.

[TheOOB]

The inherient problum is that every campaign setting defines deities in a different way. In some campaign settings a deity is no different from a mortal except much more powerful, and in some campaign settings a deity is more of an esocentric concept then a living being.

In the long run, it's up to the DM.

[Thomas]

Then, of course, there are settings like Eberron and Dark Sun, which lack true deities in the usual sense. So achieving godhood is pretty much impossible.

Yeah, but in Dark Sun, at least, relative godhood is easy - it's a prestige class! (Dragon King, Sorcerer-King, whatever you want to call it.) It was already a class in AD&D (though I can't recall how the mechanics worked, really).

I wouldn't be too quick to say playing gods would be boring for the players or the GM. Consider what something akin to the Trojan war could be like as a setting with players as sub-Zeus deities: the players support one side or the other, curry favor with more powerful gods, manipulate mortals to achieve their ends, and occasionally just throw down on the battlefield.

What's that game called again? I forget whether it's Exalted or Nobilis - never played either... and then there's In Nomine, or something?

[paigeoliver]

The D&D Master Set from 1989 or so had complete rules for joining the ranks of godhood. Luckily they are the sort of rules that are pretty much version independent, so you could use them with 3.5 unchanged. Those same rules also appear in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia.

[Thomas]

Didn't those only apply to the four human classes? Fighters had to get to level 30 or 36 or something in all the other three classes, in three separate reincarnations... establish a dynasty...

Those are a great starting point for coming up with the sort of mythologically impressive deeds a PC would need to perform to become a god, yes.

[TheThan]

I thought this topic said something else for a minute...

You're not the only one that thought that.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I wouldn't be too quick to say playing gods would be boring for the players or the GM.

Indeed. The gods do have limits. They might be able to run around doing anything they please from a mortal perspective, but from the deity perspective, there will still always be a bigger fish in the pond. This bigger fish could take the form of other deities, fire giants, or a snarl of thread from the creation of the universe. And there are very few pantheons out there that haven't been depicted as having rules of interaction—rules even the god of chaos must follow. With a bit of thought, you can always find something to challenge PCs, whether they're gods or otherwise.