Advisable Sorceror Spells For Summoner

[Thrawn183]

I am looking to start a 7th level sorceror (My first arcane caster other than a Bard). I plan on having him/her concentrate mostly on summoning.
28 pt. buy
Feats that I have looked at so far:
Augment Summon
Metamagic School Focus, Conjuration (Complete Mage)
Spell Focus
Rapid Spell(Complete Divine)
(These aren't set in stone but I'm really looking for spell selection)

The campaign I am going to play in will involve fighting almost exclusively undead and constructs (the DM may play with their abilities a little bit, but I can't prepare for what I don't know is going to be changed)

What spells would YOU recommend? I know to stay away from things that are mind affecting, and possibly things that allow spell resistance. I might just go for buffing and battlefield control rather than simply damage output. Any help would be greatly appreciated. (And I really hope this doesn't turn into a Sorc. vs. Wiz. battle)
Thank you in advance!

[Leon]

Summon Monster "x" is the basis for all your needs

[Arceliar]

Summon Swarm might be worth it. Most undead and constructs lack intelligence, and hence will be too stupid to attack the caster instead of flailing around missing the swarm.

Of course, undead and constructs also often have damage reduction...but that's why the Concentration duration can be nice.

[oriong]

Well, I'd stick with only summon monster III,

Instead of Summon Monster II just stick with Summon Swarm, it'll be far more effective for your level.

Since you went to the trouble of getting Spell Focus (I assume it's in conjuration), you obviously owe it to yourself to get at least a couple of conjuration spells with saving throws.

Invisibility is pretty much a must-have for a summoner, since summoning creatures doesn't break your invisibility.

You should have at least one or two direct offense spells to fall back on, because they do have their uses. I'd suggest at least one of the lesser orbs (it'll do 4d8 damage, no save, no SR) and/or Scorching ray, but if you pick the orbs go for Acid.

Other than that look to battlefield control which conjuration is great at: grease, web, stinking cloud, etc.

[Raum]

If you're going to be fighting undead and constructs I'd look at getting a ray or orb damage spell (no SR no save) and metamagic feats such as empower and maximize. You'll also want to pick up True Strike for those times you can't afford to miss. Somewhere (I couldn't find it, hopefully someone else will know) there's a sorceror variant allowing easier use of metamagic. If you DM will let you use that, I'd also recommend picking up quicken by level 12.

Other spells useful against constructs and undead: Solid Fog, any force spell (for incorporeal undead), Fly, Haste, Slow, Ray of Clumsiness, Unluck (it's not mind affecting), and don't forget basic defenses and buffs.

[Variable Arcana]

For your second 3rd level spell, you might think about Phantom Steed (the mobility is great for keeping out of the way while your minions fight) or Haste (to boost the power of your summoned minions).

(I'd also spend some time thinking about what creatures you'll summon; when you might prefer 1d4+1 celestial badgers to 1 celestial dire badge; and such... once you've got the creatures you're likely to be summoning, a natural companion spell may suggest itself -- an area attack they are immune to, an enhancement that addresses one of their weaknesses...)

If you're sure you're going to be facing many constructs, Shatter might be worthwhile (7d6 damage (Fort save for half) with no ranged touch required) -- unless you mean golems, which are likely immune.

Against undead, Halt Undead (3rd level) is nice if you're going to be facing lots of high-HD zombies. Not so much if you're facing a lich or vampire. Same with Command Undead (2nd level).

If you're likely to be facing incorporeal undead... then you may want things like mage armor and magic missile. Possibly also "ghost touch" (I can't remember what level that is).

[oriong]

I would disagree on the phantom steed thing, the only use of phantom steed is really overland maneuverability (keep in mind the casting time is 10 minutes), if you want to keep yourself out of reach in combat get fly.

[Dausuul]

Things to get:

Augment Summoning feat--pretty much required.
Invisibility--as someone else pointed out, summoning doesn't break it, which makes it teh win for you.
Haste--the more allies you have, the better Haste gets.

You might also consider one or two Lesser Metamagic Rods of Extend Spell, so you can cast several summons before the battle starts (assuming you get enough warning) and then drop Haste on them.

And since you have to have Spell Focus (Conjuration) to get Augment Summoning, you should also pick up some conjuration save-or-suck spells. I highly recommend Glitterdust.

[Kantolin]

the only use of phantom steed is really overland maneuverability

Yeah, but it has a duration of hour/level. Not too bad, and from level 14 on it can also fly, making it comparably better if you take ride levels.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Summon Swarm might be worth it. Most undead and constructs lack intelligence, and hence will be too stupid to attack the caster instead of flailing around missing the swarm.

Of course, undead and constructs also often have damage reduction...but that's why the Concentration duration can be nice.

The suggestion would have been good if Swarms attacked Undead.
Most Swarms only attack living prey and a few are even restricted to warmblooded prey.

Using it on Undead would only result in the Swarm attacking your own party with Undead assistance.

[oriong]

Yeah, but it has a duration of hour/level. Not too bad, and from level 14 on it can also fly, making it comparably better if you take ride levels.

No, not really. Just buy a horse, at 7th level the horse isn't going to be as fast, but really that's the only difference and you won't be giving up a valuable spell slot for something you'll only be casting once per day (and getting limited use out of).

[Telonius]

Silent Spell might be a good feat for you, especially if you're going to be casting while invisible. An item of Speak with Animals, 2 or 3/day, is nice if you want to direct the attacks of unintelligent summoned creatures. Otherwise they just attack to the best of their ability, without strategy.

[Jimp]

Have a look at your Summon Monster lists and find the monsters that work best. For example, Summon Monster 2 lets you summon a Lemure, which has damage reduction, fire immunity and some other bonuses or a Celestial Bison which has a good melee attack and other celesrial goodness. Summon Monster 3 lets you summon a Dretch which has more DR and more handy bonuses.
Check out this thread for summoning advice and a updated list of monsters that you can summon.
Make sure to check what monsters were added from MM2 and Fiend Folio. They're on that thread. Some of them are pretty good.

[Awetugiw]

Too bad you're only level 7. At level 8, lantern archons are a really cool summon. No DR for you!

[Fax Celestis]

You could grab the Summon Undeads, or UMD a wand of Summon Nature's Ally I or II for some extra creations.

[Toliudar]

I'm not sure if Sorcerers can use wands of Summon Nature's Ally, but perhaps I'm not understanding something.

Web is a fun battlefield control spell, and will still work with undead and constructs.

I echo the recommendations for at least one lesser orb spell, invisibility and haste. Fly over phantom steed, if only because phantom steed negates your invisibility (unless you also cast it on your steed)

I'm a fan of the Alienist prestige class, which works well for summoners, but it doesn't mesh well with some campaigns. Plus, I think you've already got the requirements, and could (I think) have Sorcerer 6/Alienist 1 without really losing anything.

[Person_Man]

Libris Mortis has a bunch of useful Undead Summoning feats. If that's what you focus on, even simple skeletons can end up being pretty darn powerful.

[Were-Sandwich]

See if you can swing the Personalised Summoning List variant from Ua past your DM. You can create some great themed lists that way

[Fax Celestis]

I'm not sure if Sorcerers can use wands of Summon Nature's Ally, but perhaps I'm not understanding something.

You can use UMD to emulate having a spell on your spell list. It requires a check, but with enough Cha and UMD, you can do almost anything.

Use a Wand
Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand’s spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill also applies to other spell trigger magic items, such as staffs.

It's a set DC of 20. A first-level Sorceror with 16 Cha (not unreasonable) and 2 cross-class ranks has a +5. The OP's 7th level character could potentially have 20 Cha (+5) and 5 cross class ranks (+5), for a total of +10, which is a success more than 50% of the time. A one-level dip in a class with UMD and taking the Adaptable Learning feat would make that 10 class ranks, +5 Cha, for a success 80% of the time.

[Maelstrom]

The suggestion would have been good if Swarms attacked Undead.
Most Swarms only attack living prey and a few are even restricted to warmblooded prey.

Using it on Undead would only result in the Swarm attacking your own party with Undead assistance.

You summon a swarm of bats, rats, or spiders (your choice), which attacks all other creatures within its area. (You may summon the swarm so that it shares the area of other creatures.) If no living creatures are within its area, the swarm attacks or pursues the nearest creature as best it can. The caster has no control over its target or direction of travel.

I would rule that living==moving, since it is only stated once, sandwiched in between two generic "all other creatures" and "nearest creature". Undead/Constructs are not specifically ruled out

[Thrawn183]

I really like the advice you guys are giving. A clarification: this will be a short campaign, I doubt the character will exceed 9th level. That's why I chose this campaign to experiment with something I've never even come close to trying before.

Any further advice would be greatly appreciated! And thank you again.

[Person_Man]

I really like the advice you guys are giving. A clarification: this will be a short campaign, I doubt the character will exceed 9th level. That's why I chose this campaign to experiment with something I've never even come close to trying before.

Any further advice would be greatly appreciated! And thank you again.

Though I would otherwise rarely advise it, if you want to play a strong pure summoner for a short campaign, you might want to play a Dread Necromancer. While its mechanically weaker then other casters, its very good at summoning and controlling undead. And the strong class features are mostly in the first 8 levels, especially the Fear Aura, which dovetails nicely with other Necro spells and the whole summoning undead to keep enemies away from me tactic. If you're interested, its in Heroes of Horror.

Having said that, we can pretty easily optimize a Sorcerer or Wizard to be a stronger summoner, but it would require a bunch of suppliments you may not have access to.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

I would rule that living==moving, since it is only stated once, sandwiched in between two generic "all other creatures" and "nearest creature". Undead/Constructs are not specifically ruled out

You could certainly house rule it that way, but living still means living.

A bat swarm seeks to surround and attack any warm-blooded prey it encounters. ...

A centipede swarm seeks to surround and attack any living prey it encounters. ...


Like any swarm, a hellwasp swarm seeks to surround and attack any living prey it encounters. ...


A locust swarm surrounds and attacks any living prey it encounters. ...


A rat swarm seeks to surround and attack any warm-blooded prey it encounters. ...

A spider swarm seeks to surround and attack any living prey it encounters. ...

Do you still think it is a coincidence that emphasis is placed on the creature being alive?

[Thrawn183]

Having said that, we can pretty easily optimize a Sorcerer or Wizard to be a stronger summoner, but it would require a bunch of suppliments you may not have access to.

I actually have pretty much every book at my disposal thanks to my DM loving buying them. (I even planned to buy complete scoundrel as my donation to the gaming group and she beat me to the punch )

[cupkeyk]

Aside from summoning, you can maximize your Spell Focus Conju with conju save-or-suck's or save-or-halves like Acid Breathe or Glitterdust.

But my real advice is that Sorcs suck, go Wiz.

[Collin152]

Wizards? Summoning? No. When you want to fill a specific Niche, nobody does it like a sorc.

[cupkeyk]

Why wall yourself in at all?

[Collin152]

Who cares? That's what he's doing, so be helpful.

[Thrawn183]

Who cares? That's what he's doing, so be helpful.

Thank you, I'm honored to be defended. I came up with a summoning sorceror because I knew the party was going to be composed of a druid, skillmonkey (that is apparently not useless against undead and constructs) and a warmage. I perceived a distinct lack of tanking ability. I have just recently finished playing a tank and was looking to play something else that could (though I know not amazingly well) play the same roll/ set up flanking goodness etc.

[cupkeyk]

Druid and warmage... one zoomaster and one blaster. You need a swissknife/batman more than another summoner.

Otherwise I already gave my spell suggestions: Acid Breath and Glitterdust. Add Baleful Transposition which is an awesome Conju battlefield control spell. by level nine you will have a fourth level slot and access to Anticipate Teleportation for nine hours a day. You can just send two opponents to the astral plane for a round with Anticipate Teleportation and Baleful Transposition. Cheap ass mini maze/shadow well.

Once again, the druid will be a better summoner than you.