Broken rules.

[jono]

Post here the most unbalanced, ridiculous, or outlandishly broken published rules you've come across.

As a relative Newb, two or three come to mind.

Complete adventurer; Oversized two-weapon fighting: Allowing a level one fighter to dual-wield dwarven waraxes at a mere -2 penalty to hit with each. Brilliant.

Can't remember which book; Ghostefaced killer: Had a death attack. Even if you succeded your save you and I believe anyone in a 10ft radius were shaken. It was only a lvl 7 class ability as well.

Races of the Dragon: Dragonborn of Bahamut; Entangling breath weapon... Just no!

[DaMullet]

I'm assuming that this "Ghostfaced Killer" came from a PrC? That means it was a 7th level + Prereq. level ability, probably 12th level at the earliest.

Honestly, I don't mind the rules as written. They're good.

[Morty]

Complete adventurer; Oversized two-weapon fighting: Allowing a level one fighter to dual-wield dwarven waraxes at a mere -2 penalty to hit with each. Brilliant.

-2 isn't 'mere'. It's quite a penalty, especially since TWF isn't that great. OTWF is balanced feat, maybe even a bit subpar.

[Matthew]

It's not broken, it's just stupid.

[Collin152]

Post here the most unbalanced, ridiculous, or outlandishly broken published rules you've come across.

As a relative Newb, two or three come to mind.

Complete adventurer; Oversized two-weapon fighting: Allowing a level one fighter to dual-wield dwarven waraxes at a mere -2 penalty to hit with each. Brilliant.

Can't remember which book; Ghostefaced killer: Had a death attack. Even if you succeded your save you and I believe anyone in a 10ft radius were shaken. It was only a lvl 7 class ability as well.

Races of the Dragon: Dragonborn of Bahamut; Entangling breath weapon... Just no!

Trust me, the Ghost faced killer is FAR from broken. It's possibly the worst prestige class in that whole book!
Kensei Monks? NOW we are talking.

[Attilargh]

Post here the most unbalanced, ridiculous, or outlandishly broken published rules you've come across.

Diplomacy checks from the PHB. The Giant really opened my eyes with his variant approach to the skill.

A properly built level 4 character can, by talking to a hostile villain for two minutes, turn him into a helpful ally. With no chance of failure.

A level 12 character can do this in twelve seconds.

[Quietus]

A half-elf can do it even faster... particularly with the diplomacy skill focus feat. It's hilarious stuff.

The Giant's variant approach is far more detailed, and can be troublesome to learn; However, I do think it works much better than the regular Diplomacy skill.

[Attilargh]

No, that is a half-elf. With Skill Focus on Diplomacy and Negotiator. As well as three Age Categories and a Cha boost on top of a Cha of 18. And the Synergy bonuses from Bluff, Sense Motive and Knowledge: Nobility and Royalty.

That should result in a character with a Diplomacy modifier of 25, which happens to be the DC of turning a Hostile NPC to Indifferent. No roll required.

I have yet to figure out how to get a surefire way to succeed in making the Diplomacy check as a standard action before level 12, without the use of magic items.

[Nevermore]

I see anything out of the Book of Nine Swords to be broken

[Bears With Lasers]

I see anything out of the Book of Nine Swords to be broken

Ummm... why?

Barring "two Ruby Knight Vindicators tossing White Raven Tactics at each other over and over", the book is very well-balanced. At low levels, the classes aren't more powerful than regular melee classes; at high levels, they can't keep up with wizards or druids, but they continue to contribute (which normal melee classes pretty much don't).


Also, don't we have like two other "lol, rules r borked" threads right now?

[TSGames]

Diplomacy checks from the PHB. The Giant really opened my eyes with his variant approach to the skill.

A properly built level 4 character can, by talking to a hostile villain for two minutes, turn him into a helpful ally. With no chance of failure.

A level 12 character can do this in twelve seconds.

Not sure about the "no chance of failure thing," as I recall you are required to roll if there is a chance of negative consequences resulting from a skill check(such as falling while making a climb check) and(it may just be a houserule that I''ve always played with), but I seem to recall that a roll of 1 is an automatic failure(which would mean there isn't a 100% chance, but diplomacy is still quite broken).

[Arbitrarity]

Nope. House rule.

"To make a skill check, roll 1d20 and add your character’s skill modifier for that skill. The skill modifier incorporates the character’s ranks in that skill and the ability modifier for that skill’s key ability, plus any other miscellaneous modifiers that may apply, including racial bonuses and armor check penalties. The higher the result, the better. Unlike with attack rolls and saving throws, a natural roll of 20 on the d20 is not an automatic success, and a natural roll of 1 is not an automatic failure. "

From D20SRD

Glibness. "I'm your long lost brother (73!)! Really?(15 on sense motive) Sweet!

[JimmyDPawn]

Not sure about the "no chance of failure thing," as I recall you are required to roll if there is a chance of negative consequences resulting from a skill check(such as falling while making a climb check) and(it may just be a houserule that I''ve always played with), but I seem to recall that a roll of 1 is an automatic failure(which would mean there isn't a 100% chance, but diplomacy is still quite broken).

No, the only time that the 1/20 auto-fail/succeed is with attack rolls, and saving throws. NOT skill checks.

(Of course, the moment I say this, I know I'm forgetting something, i'm sure.)


Edit: Curses, ninja'd!

[clericwithnogod]

Not sure about the "no chance of failure thing," as I recall you are required to roll if there is a chance of negative consequences resulting from a skill check(such as falling while making a climb check) and(it may just be a houserule that I''ve always played with), but I seem to recall that a roll of 1 is an automatic failure(which would mean there isn't a 100% chance, but diplomacy is still quite broken).

It's a house rule. While it seems OK for some things, a 5% chance to fail is pretty significant, making the everyday adventuring action riskier than is realistic.

As an example, there is an obstacle course in the military that has a trench (sometimes filled with barbed wire) that you have to jump over under pressure while being evaluated. 1 in 20 people going through the course don't fail to jump over the trench (particularly those judged athletic enough to be jumping over barbed wire).

EDIT: Damn. Bronze Medal...

[The_Snark]

I second Diplomacy. Or third it, or whatever. It can get really bad. I'm tempted to post my Diplomancer build here.

Fortunately, most DMs require that you roleplay the conversation or make some sort of reasonable offer, rather than just rolling the dice.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I see anything out of the Book of Nine Swords to be broken

They're overpowered compared to most other melee classes at higher levels, perhaps, if the melee classes aren't built all that well. Compared against casters at high levels, they're almost as good, if still less versatile.

I say from analysis of the book. Still haven't actually played a Martial Adept.

jono: your examples are fairly tame, really. Going from a 1d6 offhand weapon damage to 1d10 offhand weapon damage at the cost of a feat (or two feats for a non-Dwarf) isn't too bad.

The various infinite loop builds (Pun-Pun, that Cancer Mage strength build, the amusing-but-useless-Omniscificer) have pretty much been covered in other threads and forums.

Taking any of the Item Creation rules from the DMG/SRD at face value is just asking for trouble. Ring of use-activated Continuous True Strike you say? Sure, that'll be 2000 gp. Item Creation requires strict DM oversight.

Epic Magic. Particularly at level 29, combined with the Legendary Commander feat. It's a "Win D&D" button. One of the numerous reasons I'll never run an Epic game, and try to avoid playing in them except in special circumstances.

[tarbrush]

You haven't begun to plunder infinite loops till you've seen The Trouserfang Dwarf!

It's not so much broken as funny.

But seriously, no-one's mentioned polymorph et al. Or Planar shepherd. (aka the moment when the designers just stopped caring)

[Swordguy]

Broken rules? Okay, how about the Pseudonatural Template from Epic Handbook?

HDx5 in Spell resistance. Plus other stuff.

[Bears With Lasers]

Ah, yes. Planar Shepherd.

The class that happened when someone thought, "you know, clerics have prestige classes they can take that lose nothing and are strictly better than the base class progression. We should make one of those for druids, too. And let's give them three different completely game-breaking abilities, just, you know, for kicks."

Swordguy: how is that out of line/broken for an epic template?

[Swordguy]

Swordguy: how is that out of line/broken for an epic template?

Give it to a tarresque. Can you get past 240 SR? Remember the "Can anything hurt this" thread?

[Attilargh]

You haven't begun to plunder infinite loops till you've seen The Trouserfang Dwarf!

Talking about junk in the trunk...

[Bears With Lasers]

Give it to a tarresque. Can you get past 240 SR? Remember the "Can anything hurt this" thread?

Yes, I can--with spells that don't allow SR. Golems have *immunity* to SR-allowing spells; how is this any worse?

[The_Snark]

The Pseudonatural template is not anything that a PC should be using, though.

Ever.

So the players have to deal with it, and by the time they're epic-level, they have enough resources to buff the melee-types (cleric, druid, and any fightery sorts) into insanity, and use no-SR hindering spells. If the wizard finishes with that before it's dead, he can Shapechange. Then they finish slaughtering whatever poor beast from the Far Realms they're fighting.

Oh, yeah; Shapechange and Alter Self. Alter Self's not so bad unless you try to break it, and then it's pretty bad because it's available so early. Shapechange is powerful even when you don't go looking for things to abuse like the Chronotyrn. Polymorph never struck me as being quite so bad, but it's certainly abuseable too.

[Quietus]

Yeah, so now the spellcasters have something they can't hurt. In the same way that everyone complains "Fighters can't hurt anything mobile!".

Oh noes!

[NullAshton]

I believe one of the most broken spells I've ever seen is an Illusionary Pit spell, I think it was called. Even on a SUCCESSFUL save, you were stunned for one round.

[Bears With Lasers]

...unless you are not on the ground, in which case you're fine.

[Jimp]

Epic Magic. . .It's a "Win D&D" button.

Quoted for truth. Mind if I siggie it?

[Thomas]

Give it to a tarresque. Can you get past 240 SR? Remember the "Can anything hurt this" thread?

You're asking if epic characters can beat SR 240?

Yes.

With epic spells, or with circle magic - easy.

[Arbitrarity]

Circle magic maxxes at CL 40.... Epic rituals, yeah. +480 to the DC on the spellcraft check :P.

Just nuke it with the sonic barrage of DOOOM!

[Closet_Skeleton]

No, that is a half-elf. With Skill Focus on Diplomacy and Negotiator. As well as three Age Categories and a Cha boost on top of a Cha of 18. And the Synergy bonuses from Bluff, Sense Motive and Knowledge: Nobility and Royalty.

That should result in a character with a Diplomacy modifier of 25, which happens to be the DC of turning a Hostile NPC to Indifferent. No roll required.

I have yet to figure out how to get a surefire way to succeed in making the Diplomacy check as a standard action before level 12, without the use of magic items.

Don't forget Races of Destiney's Complementary Insight, half-elves only, turns synergy bonuses into +3s.