Magic Variants: Are they worth it?

[Neek]

I'm reading through the SRD, and found the set of variant rules for magic. The two I found, Magic Points, and Recharge Magic (to be very specific. I like Magic Rating, which puts more power into a multiclassing mage, and makes builds like Sorcerer/Barbarian just a little more cheesy).

Looking at the either, Spell Points make the system a little less constrictive on spellcasters, while Recharge Magic makes them ueber-powerful. But these variants, are they truly worth the while?

[Were-Sandwich]

Recharge Magic isn't as good as it looks. You can't use your highest level spells as rapidly as you normally could, toning them down a bit.

[Meat Shield]

I played a spell point sorcerer in a brief campaign. He rocked. At 8th (I think) level, counting bonus spells (and thus spell points) for high Cha I could spit out double-digit fireballs per day.

Of course, I burned out my points pretty quickly at that rate, but he was really fun to play since he wasn't limited to what the chart in the PHB said he could cast.

For flavor, I like it for the sorcerer. Makes him more of an 'inherent' magic wielder. And makes up for some of the classes shortcomings compared to the other classes.

[TheOOB]

Both recharge magic and spell points greatly increase the power of the most powerful archtype in D&D, mainly spellcasters.

The primary balancing factor for spellcasters is their number of high level spells slots, and both varients give them a high number of those.

In recharge magic you have an effictively infinate number of high level spells, sure you can't cast a 9th level spell every round, but you can easily cast one every encounter and when your 9th level spells are recharging you still got 8th, 7th and 6th level spells, and by the time you cast those, your 9th level spell is back up.

Spell points is almost as bad, since your spell points can be used for any spell level, you'll have over a dozen 9th level spells in a day, sure you won't be able to cast low level spells, but with shapechange and gate hovering around, who needs em. Psionics works with this system because the powers where designed around this system and have built in augments and such, but spells where designed assuming you'll only be able to cast x number of them a day.

[brian c]

Spell points in particular seems to be more "realistic" (if magic really did exist, it would make sense for it to work like that) especially for spontaneous casters (sorceror). That probably does overpower casters quite a bit, but if you think of it as "realistic" that magic does exist, then it makes sense that magic users would be more powerful than non-magic users. I don't really like casters, so i don't like the idea that they're overpowered, but it makes sense to me that they would be.

[TheOOB]

Realistic and Magic don't belong in the same sentance. Magic is almost by definition that which defies reality. Besides, for D&D it's more important to be balanced to make a little more sense.

[brian c]

Realistic and Magic don't belong in the same sentance. Magic is almost by definition that which defies reality. Besides, for D&D it's more important to be balanced to make a little more sense.

Well, disregarding balance, i'm thinking of relative realism. If magic actually existed (and I understand this is a huge if) then how do you make sense of different level spells, and limits on how many of each level you can cast per day? Higher level spells would require more magical energy to cast, but why shouldn't a caster be able to use most/all of their magical energies on powerful (high level) spells?

[Meat Shield]

Realistic and Magic don't belong in the same sentance. Magic is almost by definition that which defies reality. Besides, for D&D it's more important to be balanced to make a little more sense.

Agreed. I forgot to mention that the DM had wizards unable to take the spell point method, only sorcs. I believe that helped the sorceror overcome some of the advantage that a wizard has, but it certainly does not make a sorc overpowering. When you get down to it, the versatility of wizard will probably still win, because if the spells my sorc know are not what we need, being able to cast those same spells more often is not going to help.

[Matthew]

Spell Points is my preferred choice of Magic System, but I would greatly reduce the maximum number available in the SRD and the rate at which such points are regained through rest.

[Thiel]

I like the Mana system from Iron Heroes, especially the Fry-your-own-brain-to-ashes part.
Then again, I'm a fan of low magic settings in general, which explains why I play Iron Heroes

[lumberofdabeast]

Well, disregarding balance, i'm thinking of relative realism. If magic actually existed (and I understand this is a huge if) then how do you make sense of different level spells, and limits on how many of each level you can cast per day? Higher level spells would require more magical energy to cast, but why shouldn't a caster be able to use most/all of their magical energies on powerful (high level) spells?

That one's easy. In order to ensure that no mere mortal could hope to challenge their power, the gods have built magical barriers into each species that the species in question aren't even aware exist. All they know is that, if they try to tap into too many high-level spells in rapid succession, their brains explode or something.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, something like this is absolutely rife with quest hooks...

[Titanium Dragon]

I think a key in this is remembering how large of an impact this has on the game. I've screwed around with it before, but in general I've found that modifying the spell system makes the game extremely different - the biggest issue is that many monsters are built with a certain balance in mind, and you have to change all of them to use them, which is a lot of work. At some point, you're basically creating an entirely new gaming system.

[Ramza00]

Note Refresh Magic highly favors the 10 Mins/lvl buff spells and Persistent Spells for you can easily cast them outside battle and have your magic refresh long before the buff expires.

[Fizban]

If you use spell points I suggest googling "waking lands" and following your nose to their spell point system. It's pretty much the same, except they have the correct point totals for each class. The table in Unearthed Arcana arbitrarily starts subtracting points at higher levels, probably in some attempt to maintain the balance that fails.

[Matthew]

I think a key in this is remembering how large of an impact this has on the game. I've screwed around with it before, but in general I've found that modifying the spell system makes the game extremely different - the biggest issue is that many monsters are built with a certain balance in mind, and you have to change all of them to use them, which is a lot of work. At some point, you're basically creating an entirely new gaming system.

Only if you change all the Monsters... as with any House Rule, you have to be familiar with the material you are altering. Many of the CR ratings just don't measure up even as they are and Player Characters are often way above the power level that these creatures were designed to face.
It's not really a lot of work to play around with this sort of thing, so long as you keep any adjustments you make simple.
One option, for instance, is to convert all Spell Slots to Spell Points, equal to 1 per Spell Level and have Wizards expend Spell Points to memorise Spells. Of course, this tends to increase the relative power of Spell Casters, so some limiting factor is often introduced, such as reducing the number of total Spell Points and how quickly they are regained.