Spirit Shamans

[JellyPooga]

I'd only had a cursory glance at them before ('cos my mate owned Comp.Div. so I never really had a chance to read it properly), but I've had a good look at them and realised that they're really kind of odd.

They are clearly a full caster using the druid list, but their spell/day don't match any of the other full-casters. They lie somewhere between a Sorcerers spells/day and a Wizards spells/day.

The other weird thing is that they only get 3 spells "known" every day (though they can change those spells every day). I was wondering how effective this is. Considering that on average, you'll use the same spells, is this more of a limitation than a bonus?

Lastly, their Ghost Warrior ability seems a bit good for only a level 6 ability. All weapons they hold are Ghost Touch and all armour they wear is effective against ethereals. Correect me if I'm wrong, but is this a mite good?

Opinions on the class in general, as well as the above points, would be appreciated.

[oriong]

Well, divine spellcasters don't tend to have the same spells/day as arcane. Clerics for instance get between a sorcerer and a wizard too, just like you said. It's not particularly odd.

Their 'spells known' thing is a limitation simply because standard divine spellcasters (druids/clerics) get access to their full spell list. It was never an advantage, it just means they aren't as limited as a Favored Soul or a Sorcerer.

And no, the ghost touch thing isn't very special at all. The number of incorporeal creatures out there is tiny, it's a very specialized advantage that doesn't come up that often.

[Bears With Lasers]

The ghost touch thing is very situationally useful, and, of course, the Spirit Shaman is a caster not a fighter-type, so it's even less so. Overall, the Spirit Shaman is pretty well-balanced: it's a caster, but from a relatively weak list (although it has some gems), it's got day-to-day versatility, and a decent amount of endurance, it's got that painful two-stat casting thing going on, and it has nice class features that make it worth taking through to 20th. Your guide concentrating on spells for you is particularily nice--two Elemental Monoliths? Yes, please!

[TheOOB]

The spirit shaman isn't uver powerful like the druid, cleric, or wizard, but it's still way more powerful then a non spellcaster. They really do only get to use their full range of abilities if you DM likes using spirits alot (my DMs a fan of humanoids so no dice there), so thats something to keep in mind when playing one.

Their ghost touch ability isn't that great, especially since they allready know cure spells which can effect incorpral undead with no miss chance.

Their spells known thing, I think, is a wonderful balancing factor. It allows them the versitility of preparation casters, but some of the ease of use of spontaneous casters. It's a nice system to be honest.

[Pedantic]

I think spirit shamans are a little less usefully than they should be, precisely because there aren't very many creatures that fall into the "spirit" category. Personally, I would add all non-native outsiders and fey.

[UglyPanda]

Very useful in certain situations, ok in others. My current favorite use for them is to have my character not tell anyone about the spirit guide and pretend like everyone else can see it.

[TheOOB]

I think spirit shamans are a little less usefully than they should be, precisely because there aren't very many creatures that fall into the "spirit" category. Personally, I would add all non-native outsiders and fey.

What are you talking about, isn't being a full caster with the druid spell list useful enough on it's own? I really like the class, it's a spellcaster which allready gives it all the power it needs, they put extra abilities on it that are flavorful and give it some additional usefulness in certain situations(as well as limit the amount of boring dead levels), while still not turning into a druid fiasco.

[The Valiant Turtle]

I haven't yet seen one in action, but I really like the way the select spells, and their special abilities are nice, but not overpowering. I think I'm going to try one next time I'm in a campaign that allows them.

I think I'd like to tinker with their spell list a little bit. I'd take away some of the more nature oriented spells and add some extra necromantic and divination type spells, and maybe come up with some sort of summon list for them.

[EndgamerAzari]

I'm in a campaign with one. The woman who plays her controls two characters, though, and 'Opal' doesn't seem to do much, really, aside from being the 'plot b****'. I'll try to pay more attention at my next gaming session and then give you a report.

[Ramza00]

Spirit Shamans are the Druid Sorcerer. They are better than a non optimized sorcerer. But if a sorcerer searches his books for the most broken spells the sorcerer is on top. In my mind all spontaneous casters should either have a spell selection mechanic similar to the Spirit Shaman or from a specialized list they know all the spells such as Beguiler.

[Aximili]

I've seen one in action a couple of times.
It's as nice as any spell caster/partially melee, and not an ounce behind. Fortunately his spell list is not as broken as the wizard's, and his other abilities are not as cheesy as the druid's but still fun.

So yeah. They did great work on this class.

[themightybiggun]

Fey already do count as spirits for the Spirit Shaman's abilities.

Elementals too.

[broderickdruce]

I played one once, it was a lot of fun. I ended up overshadowing my companions (IMHO), but then again I was the only caster besides the Ghost Bard. I found the 3 spells a bit restricting but i usually went with a balance of 1 Heal, 1 Defence, 1 Blaster per level and it worked well. The list of ''Spirit Creatures'' origionally looked restricted to me but those creatures ended up appearing more often than I had expected. Once you get Ghost Walk the Ghost Touch ability is extremely awesome if also add in some combat proficiency, which I recommend due to the restrictiveness of the spell list.

[JellyPooga]

I found the 3 spells a bit restricting but i usually went with a balance of 1 Heal, 1 Defence, 1 Blaster per level and it worked well. The list of ''Spirit Creatures'' origionally looked restricted to me but those creatures ended up appearing more often than I had expected. Once you get Ghost Walk the Ghost Touch ability is extremely awesome if also add in some combat proficiency, which I recommend due to the restrictiveness of the spell list.

I kind of imagined that the three spells thing would be a bit of a problem, but 'solvable' by taking, as you say, 1 healing, 1 defence and 1 blaster (or similar).

Again, the Spirit Creatures thing, I first thought would be fairly limited, but given that it's all fey and all elementals, as well as incorporeal undead, I imagine that it's not so limited as one might think. Added to that that the Chatise Spirits thing is pretty darn good anyway...

One thing I did wonder about...the Spirit Walk ability says that you can't make melee attacks, only the incorporeal touch attack, yet with the Ghost Warrior ability, does that mean that you can still use weapons against corporeal opponents? I wasn't really sure.

[Ramza00]

Well don't forget you can take spontaneous healer and spontaneous summoner to boost your spells known per level.

[Collin152]

SPirit Shamns- My Anti-Druid

(This Public service message brought to you by Killios, god of killing: "Nature's just as good dead as it is alive!")

[broderickdruce]

One thing I did wonder about...the Spirit Walk ability says that you can't make melee attacks, only the incorporeal touch attack, yet with the Ghost Warrior ability, does that mean that you can still use weapons against corporeal opponents? I wasn't really sure.

Just for reference the ability's true title is Spirit Form (for thosetrying to find what i'm talking about). The ability states that you cannot make a Physical attack but gain the ability to make a melee touch attack dealing 1d6. It also states nothing about transforming equipment aswell.

When I played a Shaman we ruled that the 2 abilities woked together so I could use weapons while in spirit form but that meant the attack was resolved as a normal melee attack (but the attacker is still denied strength bonus to attack). By RAW I would say that no they don't work together but I think that is just silly.

[Aximili]

They're two abilities from the same class. If they worked together, chances are one of the descriptions would have mentioned it.
Of course, that's neither a rule nor anything conclusive. But it's a hint. ^^

[Collin152]

Just for reference the ability's true title is Spirit Form (for thosetrying to find what i'm talking about). The ability states that you cannot make a Physical attack but gain the ability to make a melee touch attack dealing 1d6. It also states nothing about transforming equipment aswell.

When I played a Shaman we ruled that the 2 abilities woked together so I could use weapons while in spirit form but that meant the attack was resolved as a normal melee attack (but the attacker is still denied strength bonus to attack). By RAW I would say that no they don't work together but I think that is just silly.

How shamanistic. in order to use this power one becomes completely naked.