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2014-07-26, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
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- Helsinki, Finland
- Gender
Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
So, long story relatively short, I'm going to DM a FATE campaign where the players are a team of operatives in an international secret organization devoted to keeping interdimensional crossovers in check - the rather underfunded (due to lack of activity) Helsinki branch, to be more specific. These crossovers (actually called that in-universe) can be pretty much anything, from aliens to demons to wizards to weird objects: many of them are simply "generic", but oddly enough, more specific types appear as well, bearing a striking resemblance to creatures in mythology or popular culture. Many creatures appear especially often in the areas they're mythologically connected to: in fact, one particular example I made in an expositional paragraph was Iku-Turso's catastrophic sinking of the M/S Estonia; the only major crossover in Finland in the last few decades, I might add, but that's neither here nor there.
ANYWAY!
I'm looking for any particularly interesting/obscure/weird/entertaining creatures I might want to either utilize as opponents or even just make references to. They definitely don't have to Finnish, specifically, even though that's where most of the action will be. Of course, I also appreciate ideas for new twists on classic beasties. The infodump above should suffice for the basic idea, but if you need additional information on the setting or simply happen to be interested in it (pfft), feel free to ask.
Sidenote: One particular silly thing I'm thinking of is a classification system for vampires, which the organization would definitely want since there are so many version of them and most require very specific methods of slayin'. This is partially just because I have a particular in-character conversation in mind...
"As I said, these attacks have been occurring in the middle of the city, in the victims' bedrooms. I really doubt it's a Dracula type, those tend to stand out."
"Well, what do you think then? Is it a Darkness type?"
"No, I-"
"A Nosferatu?"
"No, that's just a subtype of Dracula. You have to face the facts, we're dealing with -"
"No..."
"- a Meyer type."
"Mother of god."
I'm not sure what classifications would be best, though. It would probably be just guidelines, anyway.
Sidenote 2: If that totally unnecessary snippet didn't clue you in, the "tone" I'm going for is "serious things treated far too lightly".
And again, I'm sorry for the rambling.Last edited by SilverLeaf167; 2014-07-26 at 02:04 PM.
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2014-07-26, 02:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
I suggest reading the Libriomancer series by Jim C. Hines, that vampire conversation is very similar to some scenes in the first book.
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2014-07-26, 04:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2014
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Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
The Moose of Hiisi is a moose construct made of rotting wood that can only be taken out by piercing it's heart, or whatever the heart-analog of an wooden moose is. It seems to be associated with winter and cold. The Moose is a nasty encounter in one chapter of the excellent webcomic A Redtail's Dream by Minna Sundberg, which draws a lot of inspiration from Finnish mythology.
Amusing quotes:
SpoilerErik: For my schemes are as devious as yours, and my crazy as great... from Pika's GND
Davros: The Daleks shall become Lords of Time! We shall become all-
The Doctor: Powerful! Crush the lesser races! Conquer the galaxy! UNIMAGINABLE POWER! UNLIMITED RICE PUDDING! ET CETERA, ET CETERA!
Agatha Heterodyne: Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science.
My avatar is Ruxala, a miniature guardian dragon created by Worms and Bones.
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2014-07-26, 04:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Helsinki, Finland
- Gender
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
A summary I found sounds interesting, I might look into it if I have time.
Oh, good idea! I actually ran into Sundberg's site when looking for pictures of Iku-Turso. (here's what I found)
"Hiisi" is basically a generic term used for different sorts of malevolent fae-like beings in Finnish mythology, probably the closest analogue to "goblin" and actually the translation I prefer to use. Oddly enough, since Finnish folklore and linguistics are really weird sometimes, it's also occasionally used to describe a sacred grove or graveyard. Even modern phrases display both of these meanings: "hiisi vieköön" can be literally translated "may the goblin take it", but basically means "damn it to Hell". "Painu hiiteen", on the other hand, means "go to Hell". Weird thing, that.
The Moose of Hiisi (or goblin moose, moose of the sacred grove or whatever you wanna call it) also appears in Kalevala, our national epic, where hunting it down is one of the tasks given to suitors of the Daughter of the North (translation mine), but it's not described in much detail. Sundberg's interpretation is very interesting and I'll definitely look for an excuse to utilize it.
Eh, Finnish culture and linguistics always hit my twitchy ramble-button. This probably looks especially stupid if you're actually Finnish yourself and already know all this stuff...
Hope I'm not scaring help away with all this. OR by constantly apologizing about it. Can't win.
EDIT: I checked out the actual poem in the Kalevala. Apparently, it was a wooden moose constructed by goblins to terrorize the nearby people; in particular, it's described as wrecking a kitchen. After skiing across the whole country, the hero actually manages to incapacitate the moose with arrows and trap it with a fence. Unfortunately, he keeps taunting the moose until it gets angry and escapes, leaving the hero to lament what a stupid idea the whole hunt was.
That's what I could gather, at least. The language is quite archaic and filled with metaphors.Last edited by SilverLeaf167; 2014-07-26 at 05:04 PM.
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2014-07-27, 12:25 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
- Location
- Australia
- Gender
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
If your setting is modern or near future, what about Wifi/Blue Tooth fey? They're the reason why the batteries in mobile devices always go flat so quickly (they eat electricity). Your operatives could have fey-warded phones that last for days before needing to be recharged.
Marvel at my IMPRESSIVE (and Expensive) collection of Discworld Books!!!
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2014-07-27, 02:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Helsinki, Finland
- Gender
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
Yeah, it's modern, and your idea's pretty cool too! There's already a history of oddly specific elves, as well: sauna elves, mill elves, barn elves, stable elves... Phone elves would totally fit in. In general, I've figured that there's a constant presence of elves all over the country, but they're impossible to keep track of, stay hidden from the public and are pretty harmless anyway, so the organization doesn't really bother with them. Until one day the phone elves get together and decide to visit the organization's hi-tech comm center, that is...
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2014-07-27, 03:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
Gremlins, litter spirits, Rat Kings, smog elementals, Kuchisake Onna (though she'd be a looong way from home), Slenderman...
Oh, and some sort of blatantly nonhuman creature that's hiding in plain site by pretending to be a beggar (which results in everyone studiously ignoring it).Last edited by Arbane; 2014-07-27 at 03:21 AM.
Imagine if all real-world conversations were like internet D&D conversations...
Protip: DnD is an incredibly social game played by some of the most socially inept people on the planet - Lev
I read this somewhere and I stick to it: "I would rather play a bad system with my friends than a great system with nobody". - Trevlac
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2014-07-27, 07:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
- Location
- Australia
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Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
Toss a wendigo at them and see who runs the fastest
You could also have sewer alligators; blind, albino monstrosities which have adapted to a life filled with the worst humanity has to offer.
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2014-08-06, 10:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Helsinki, Finland
- Gender
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
I was out camping for a while, sorry I didn't respond sooner.
Good ideas, though the smog elemental in particular gives me an interesting idea...
"You open the window and a rank stench strikes you in the face. Literally."
Though it's a North American monster, the wendigos could conceivably "migrate" to Finland, especially with the rather common interpretation of a moose-like appearance. Thinking of an appropriate "conversion" for alligators is slightly harder... I'm thinking of monstrous pike or something, since those have plenty of precedent in the Kalevala and other Finnish mythology, but they're... sort of restricted to the water... I could just make a passing handwave of the alligators' weird location, I guess.
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2014-08-06, 10:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
From D&D, there are the ever-popular Flumphs and Beholders.
Chinese hopping vampires are really hard to conceptually take seriously, despite being rather dangerous.
Mail-order Selkie or Swan Maiden brides.
Baba Yaga's Hut.
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2014-08-06, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
Mix in a creepypasta or two.
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2014-08-06, 11:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
So, a lighter version of Torchwood and/or Primeval? Possibly with bits of Buffy's hellmouth included. Ultraviolet (the British "government vampire hunters" series, one of Idris Elba's first roles IIRC) might not be a bad starting point either.
How many rifts are there, and do they connect to individual locations, or an intermediate region/dimension/whatever that links everything together?
One thing to consider is people from this side - no matter how secret it's supposed to be, it will get out and some people might try and steal away things that are coming through for whatever reason (not just financial), some might want to try and go through themselves, or dispose of other people/ objects through the rifts.
As for scenarios, how about a fist sized, blank, seamless, ceramic cube that comes through one of the rifts? How much hassle will your players go through to find out that it's just a child's building block? Or maybe it isn't...
There could also be the potential for doppelganging the players - whether that's time shifting them, alternate dimension equivalents, clones, imitating creatures or whatever.
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2014-08-06, 01:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
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- Lincoln
- Gender
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2014-08-06, 02:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Helsinki, Finland
- Gender
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
Heh, I saw this coming, but intentionally tried to avoid infodumping in the first post. Here goes...
The actual method by which crossovers happen is largely unknown and varies greatly based on the individual. There are no set locations or methods; rarely any discernible motivation beyond survival or havoc; things just appear every now and then, making largely empty countries like, for example, Finland and Russia especially hard to monitor effectively; Russia has already left the program for this reason (and political ones), while Finland hasn't had any notable cases in decades and is forced to simply ignore the ubiquitous house elves etc.
For the most part, crossovers are covered by a glamour or masquerade of some probably magical sort, known simply as "disbelief"; the human brain is exceedingly likely to simply not notice them and their deeds or make up "logical" excuses for more overt cases. An object switching place was there all along, that businessman most definitely has a face and that marauding group of demons was a band of terrorists. However, some people (including specially treated agents) can see through this illusion, suspending their disbelief so to speak, and extended or shocking exposure to crossovers may shake it as well. The program's main purpose, even beyond reducing any material risks caused by the crossovers, is maintaining this illusion to their best ability by eliminating any threats to it.
As natural "believers" are rare, the program is very much aware that most human threats come from within, which is why discharged agents undergo a discrete memory wipe procedure and everyone is watched closely. One of the recurring enemies I've thought up is an ex-agent who fell in love with the organization's brand of adapted magic, mastered and twisted it to a worrying degree and evaded the memory wipe when they tried to discharge him. However, I plan to use him as more of a side-threat, since I want the main focus to remain on the crossovers themselves. Of course, it is perfectly possible for, say, the Necronomicon to appear in a library somewhere and end up in the wrong, though perhaps unassuming hands.
Doppelgangers are definitely interesting, and a concept I've wanted to explore for a long time but never really got the chance. I think they fit a less mechanics-obsessed game like FATE better than D&D, anyway. Since actually handling an infiltrated party is infamously hard, they'd probably mess things up and force the party to clear their names, or something similar.
And yes, before you ask, Finland's dry spell is definitely going to end when the plot gets rolling. Big time.
The main problem with that is whether I should just chalk it up to the obvious reason or think of something more interesting...
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2014-08-06, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
The whole 'invisibility via disbelief' thing sounds familiar - I think there was a d20 Modern campaign using that to explain all the monsters and such. (And White Wolf's Werewolf: the Apocalypse setting uses it, too.)
Imagine if all real-world conversations were like internet D&D conversations...
Protip: DnD is an incredibly social game played by some of the most socially inept people on the planet - Lev
I read this somewhere and I stick to it: "I would rather play a bad system with my friends than a great system with nobody". - Trevlac
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2014-08-07, 02:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
You could consider using some of the SCPs. I can't recall any particulars found in Finland, but several of them are mobile, and the canon can be altered so they appear where you prefer.
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2014-08-07, 03:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
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2014-08-07, 03:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Helsinki, Finland
- Gender
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
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2014-08-07, 09:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
- Location
- People's Republic of NJ
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Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
I have this one bookmarked. The categories make it easy to find what you want. Mythical Archive
I found this one with a quick search: LINK!
There's also a Wikipedia article for them. That's alphabetical.
WikipediaThe streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No."
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2014-08-07, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2014
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
Hopefully some of this is helpful:
Monstrous People
Deep Ones - Like from Innsmouth.
Fear Gorm - Hostile blue men from the briney depths. Accompanied by terrible storms when awake. Choose their victims by starting a poem and seeing who can't finish it.
Fomorians - Hideous sea-faring trollmen.
Sluagh - Winged demon soldiers from the underworld. Can smell death.
Tuatha - Celtic wood elves. Burned by the touch of iron.
Urisk - Hulking, misshapen brutes that never tire.
Rampaging Beasts
Barghest - Huge, smart & mean dog.
Bures Dragon - swamp/marsh dragon. Does not breathe fire.
Cait Sith - Black panther identified by a swirl of white fur on the breast. Eats the souls of the dead and dying. Commands loyalty of cats.
Cu Sith - Green wolf-like dog the size of a bull. Hunts the unwary.
Devil Pig - Great & bad-tempered black pig.
Glatisaunt - chimera with the head of a serpent and body of a leopard
Hala - Evil stormcloud filled with crows.
Hooper - Evil fog cloud constantly sparking with lightning. Blasts lightning at victims. Makes loud hooting noises as it moves around.
Omibozu - Great sea beast. Enjoys sinking ships.
Shug Monkey - Huge black shaggy-furred monkey-man. Sneaks up behind victims in fog & beats them senseless.
Varcolac - Demonic wolves born from eggs. Work like an infestation.
Ychen Bannog - Red-eared white ox the size of a church.
Yeth hounds - Fairy hounds used in the Wild Hunt.
Goblins & Fey
Ainsel - Playful night-time fairies. Trick and deceive travellers.
Baucan - Generic goblin.
Bean Nighe - Fairy washerwoman of the doomed.
Boggarts - Rural goblin that destroy crops and curdles milk. Whilst it's still in the cow.
Bucca - Fairy of great fortune or misfortune.
Bullbeggar - Malicious shape-changing fairy. Can inflict fear on it's victims.
Crimbal - Baby-stealing changeling.
Draugr Blue-black or ghostly-white spirit that hangs around graves. Sometimes picks a grave to fiercely protect.
Fetich - Face changing fae. Can only take the face of someone soon to die.
Glashtyn - Water goblin. Lives in the mud & filth at the bottom of rivers.
Gremlins - Sadistic green goblins that love to sabotage machinery and harass William Shatner.
Korrigan - Shapeshifting goblins that can take the form of animals when the sun isn't shining.
Piskies - Household fairies that harass and attack the lazy.
Pottons - Sharp-toothed, red-eyed brown goblins that live underground. Subsist on human flesh.
Powries - Murderous goblins or fairies that kill people & grind their bones into powder. Then they do creepy things with the powder.
Redcaps - Heavily-armed beserker goblins. Weigh themselves down with iron armour then go on bloody rampages.
Spriggans - Hideous rotting fairy-like beings that are the ghosts of giants somehow. Can grow very big very quickly.
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2014-08-07, 11:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
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- Xin-Shalast
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Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
Depending upon how closely it resembles our world, at least on the surface, there was, and may still be, some amount of American military presence in Finland, IIRC. So that would be one possible vector. Especially if it was a Bayou/Cajun-country-variant Wendigo, you might have even more leeway with the Alligatorness.
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2014-08-07, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Helsinki, Finland
- Gender
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
Ooh, thanks! I've actually been checking out the Wikipedia article, and it's pretty cool to have such a comprehensive list, but on the other hand, just a list of names isn't very informative. Thanks for all these resources, though; they'll definitely be useful. The first one in particular looks really nice, while the second one has some more obscure monsters (like Finnish ones) that the other lacks.
Hey, thanks! Quick summaries that give me ideas on what to look into are really cool and helpful.
I remember reading about that. I think it had something to do with a large-scale covert operation during the Cold War, which also involved many other countries. This was obviously rather awkward for Finland, which was (and still is, in a way) trying to maintain a fragile balance of neutrality, but IIRC the operation was either unsuccessful or kinda abandoned.
As a side note, sort of brought up by my mention of aquatic creatures: I've decided that Helsinki's main HQ should be on one of the many islands along the coastline, which have a nice balance of remoteness and practicality. They also already house some military bases, which the HQ would be disguised as. Anyway, my point is, this location would allow me quite a few chances for aquatic threats. To balance the whole remoteness part, and for obviously practical reasons, the city houses many smaller bases as well.Last edited by SilverLeaf167; 2014-08-07 at 12:53 PM.
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2014-08-08, 05:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
I cannot second this suggestion hard enough. The first book opens with the main character getting attacked by a trio of Sanguinarius Meyerii (which are exactly what you think they are) and shoots one of them with a ray gun. He also has Ponce de Leon's magical car, because de Leon actually did find the Fountain of Youth, and is an immortal wizard who is incidentally secretly in love with Johannes Gutenberg
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2014-08-08, 06:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
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Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
You should definitely include all different pop-culture deciptions of zombies, to complement the vampires. So you can have hilarious discussions like:
"Is it a traditional Haitian...?"
"No."
"Romero then?"
"No."
"One of those really obnoxious, fast running sonuva..."
"No, don't think it's that either. I think it could be a local variant... I'm thinking of a good name for it. Kalma? Kalmo? Kaamio..."
"... ammu sitä vaan päähän, prkl.""It's the fate of all things under the sky,
to grow old and wither and die."
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2014-08-08, 09:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Helsinki, Finland
- Gender
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
...Okay, I definitely have to get my hands on that series.
Ah, nice to have a comrade Finn helping! Especially with a post that manages to make me laugh out loud...
Can anyone think of other creatures with particularly many different incarnations? Undead other than vampires and zombies are kind of a big mess in general... Elves and other fey, especially the Finnish kind, will definitely be present though. A lot of tiny men, with the Tolkien type as quite a large stand-out.
Which brings me to another matter: having too sentient/humanoid/friendly crossovers would be quite a mess, so maybe it should be explained that most sentient creatures from whatever lies beyond the dimensional barrier aren't really interested in crossing it? I guess I gotta think of the details behind the whole phenomenon sooner or later...
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2014-08-08, 10:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
As the Dresden Files points out, there are loads of different incarnations of werewolves. I think they made up lycanthropes (humans with the ability to adopt feral minds), but there's the loup-garou myth, the one with the wolf-pelt belt, humans magically transformed into wolves, humans who channeled wolf spirits, and, well, Wikipedia is loaded with the stuff.
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2014-08-08, 10:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Helsinki, Finland
- Gender
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
Oh yeah, definitely. It's also something I, oddly enough, hadn't really thought about before: crossovers afflicting humans, which has quite wide implications. A lot of monsters do that, after all: transforming normal people. Since there isn't really a common way to "banish" or "cancel" crossovers, I guess killing the subject would be the only choice in quite many cases. The real point of contention would be whether the original crossover should be in the form of an actual monster, which once again raises the problem with sentient crossovers, or the affliction itself, you know, like a normal person mysteriously transforming. I guess I can have both.
Last edited by SilverLeaf167; 2014-08-08 at 10:45 AM.
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2014-08-11, 11:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Helsinki, Finland
- Gender
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
Well, I've received initial character concepts from three players, in case anyone cares.
One is relatively generic, compared to the others. An agent focused on protection, transportation and illusion magic. I honestly don't have much to say about him; I hope his characterization and creativity fills in the somewhat bland mechanical side.
The second is focused on using telekinesis (a subset of transportation magic) to wield objects of various sizes, mostly coins and cards, as weapons. I don't know much beyond that, but given the player's personality and an implied stage magic theme, I'm sure it will be interesting.
The third is the only one I've actually discussed at length, and definitely the weirdest one. He's a Japanese-American ex-Yakuza member booted to the remote Finnish branch for undisclosed reasons. He wields a heirloom katana, occasionally lit on fire by his magic. And he's also afflicted with lycanthropy, able to transform between human and wolf form at will (but turning into a berserk hybrid when he sees the full moon). To top it off, when in wolf form, he wields his goddamn katana with telekinesis. Yes, that part was admittedly inspired by Okami.
At first I was kind of on the fence about that last character, but decided to just roll with the Rule of Cool and that the game was for the players, not vice versa. Besides, he managed to make it sound halfway reasonable. Another player thought it was pure satire, but I think it will work just fine. It was pretty weird that all of them, independently, decided to get transportation magic, but they use it in different enough ways that I don't mind.
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2014-08-11, 01:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
Beyond just that, you can conflate different types of attacks from similar categories of monsters. Was this attack a wendigo, a werewolf, a yeti, a black dog, or something else? Another might be a vampire, a zombie, a chupacabra, a giant mosquito, or some other similar creature.
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2014-08-12, 03:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2013
Re: Urban Fantasy Kitchen Sink - Looking for monsters!
You could also have possession (ranging from the original personality being evicted and lost, being held in a soul jar, slowly getting corrupted, the possessing personality taking control when the original is asleep or unconscious, or even cooperation - say the original personality is shy and reserved, but the new one is outgoing and easily picks up members of the original personalities' chosen gender) and body swaps.
Or maybe it's not the person that gets possessed, but a device - say a car with lots of drive-by-wire functionality. Or maybe a laptop, and the party have to stop it getting connected to the internet and letting them loose on the world.
And just because they possess someone or something, doesn't necessarily mean they're hostile or evil.
Sounds a bit like Gambit from the X-Men to me.
Although if you're worried about all three of them having the same powers, if your player's looking at a stage magic background, small amounts of telepathic powers (especially to obscure objects, or disguise them) might be something you could add to the character in place of some of the telekenisis ones.