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Thread: Immortality without undeath
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2014-08-23, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Immortality without undeath
I do get that to live one must die and death is party of life not its opposite. But for my new campaign the
main antagonist I want him to be immortal(Don't die from old age or need to eat and breathe) but I want him to be a goodlooking fellow whom no one suspects to be immortal.
How to do that? I mean he can't be a lich since they are ugly undead creatures. Is there any other way to become immortal without becoming undead?
Or he will have to be a lich who is really good with illusion spells?Last edited by S@tanicoaldo; 2014-08-23 at 01:00 PM.
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2014-08-23, 01:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
Well Liches don't have to be ugly. They just often are, since the long-dead often don't have as much concern over making their own appearance up, since they're dead it no longer matters, at least to them. Vampires certainly work for the fluff, although they're harder to pull off. Any creature with Alter Self or Polymorph could make themselves into something else entirely. Even the dead could change shape into something that looks more living.
Elans are very close to what you're looking for, they're immortal, and can avoid eating (breathing they do do though)My Avatar is Glimtwizzle, a Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist by Cuthalion.
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2014-08-23, 01:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
How about a lich who, immediately after becoming undead, casts Gentle Repose on himself and continues doing so whenever he has a spell slot of third level or higher unused at the end of a day?
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2014-08-23, 01:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
Elan seems to fit the bill for you, here. There are psi powers for breathing underwater, I think.
Vampire could also work, "immortal dude nobody suspects is undead" is one of their big schticks. Lots of tell-tale weaknesses that can give him away to adventurers who know what to look for, though.
A really evil psion would not obviate the need to eat or breathe, but he could use True Mind Switch every year or few to keep in the best, youngest, and most attractive bodies. A Thrallherd would even have Believers willing to give their bodies to him.
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2014-08-23, 02:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
There are a lot of options...
A dragon with polymorph.
An Outsider, say an Incubus with class levels (especially if they get class levels in something to allow for their alignment to be concealed). Also, some rules include rituals that allow someone to transform (incrementally) from a normal human to a half-fiend and ultimately become a demon themselves.
Vampire
Lich
Perhaps a curse of some sort...Last edited by Stellar_Magic; 2014-08-23 at 02:15 PM.
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2014-08-23, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
Give your bad guy a magic item that makes them unable to age like a necklace or something.
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2014-08-23, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
Then you look like a very fresh corpse. Not the same thing at all as a living creature.
I would require Disguise check with a Preform: Acting synergy bonus (or vise versa) to really pass yourself off as a living creature. See, there's all sorts of things that an undead creature wouldn't do. Things like blinking at a regular basis, getting winded, catching ones breath in shock, breathing period actually, and even then, things like warmth and heartbeat will be harder to pull off, though the latter might be simulated with Prestidigitation.
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2014-08-23, 02:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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2014-08-23, 03:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
Don't forget: you're the DM. You're not a player forced to obey the rules of the books, they're just guidelines for DM's. Thus: Homebrewing.
Or depending on the system you use there are a variety of options, but I'll do Pathfinder.
Level 20 Wizard can choose to gain immortality in place of a feat. ("Pathfinder: Ultimate Magic" page 86
Level 20 Alchemist can choose to gain Eternal Youth for a Grand Discovery ("Pathfinder: Advanced Player's Guide" page 31)
Or just Homebrew a new artifact that negates aging like daremetoidareyo said. For example, a cup made out of a hollowed unicorn horn blessed by such-and-such was found by your antagonist that grants immunity to aging if sipped from at least once every week. As a small twist, if he fails to drink it within a week's time he turns to dust (idea taken from one of my favorite book series). To have the eating/drinking problem removed, spend 2,500 gold pieces for a Ring of Sustenance. Or just include that power with the special uni-cup.
Don't forget, the more creative you are (while staying somewhat grounded to a slightly stretched reality) the more interesting your game and the happier your players.Last edited by Fosco the Swift; 2014-08-23 at 03:20 PM.
It's only cheating if you get caught. Otherwise, it's just good tactics...
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2014-08-23, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
The answer, of course, is the "Outsider(Native)" type.
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2014-08-23, 04:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
Fosco's examples are good if you play Pathfinder, and the ring does take care of the eating and drinking part.
A strange way to solve it is to use te spell reincarnate. This would create a young adult body for the soul to inhabit.
Now how do you make sure you get reincarnated after your death? Well you've got your death insurance ofcourse! Every 6 days your insurance company will scry on you to make sure you're okay. If they happen to find a mangled corpse in your place, they teleport in and reincarnate you on the spot. All of this for a reasonable montly fee. (Or perhaps yearly, if you're on the road a lot.)
Or you know, you could cast contingency and reincarnate every couple of days, though that would be expensive... Add it to your ring of sustenance perhaps, along with something that would allow you to live without breathing?
Elves have livespans of 354-750 years, and they don't reach middleage until they're 175 and even then their appearance doesn't change that much as they age. (At least to other races. Elves don't have problems picking up on the subtle signs of aging of another elf.) And honestly, elves are usually not the baddies so this would be a nice change. This would require for elves to be rare in your campaign, I guess.
Edit: Or you could make him an outsider. Outsiders don't need to eat or sleep, but they do need to breathe. They also are pretty much immortal. You could just use whatever kind of outsider would work for you, or he could be the last of his kind and you could homebrew him as a race and give him class levels.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll have to make up some kind of evil elf that is not a drow.Last edited by the_david; 2014-08-23 at 04:21 PM.
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2014-08-23, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
Well I can't help too much with the eating and breathing part, but here's a couple for the immortality.
Book of Vile Darkness has the spell Steal Life. It's an 8th level necromancy spell on the Sorcerer/Wizard list. Using it requires a bit of setup, evil ritual style, but it can make the caster younger weeks at a time. The spell doesn't seem to have been republished, but I doubt there's any issues with porting into a 3.5 game as is.
For somebody a little more roguish, I found a prestige class in the Faiths of Eberron book called Thief of Life. The class itself seems pretty easy to divorce from the Eberron-related fluff if you want to use it in another setting. Unfortunately, you'll need all 10 levels before you get the key ability, and it has some restrictions on its use, but it basically lets you become immortal (read: un-aging, not invincible) for a whole year if you kill an equal or higher level opponent with a Sneak Attack. The other abilities of the class aren't bad, either.
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2014-08-23, 04:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
There are quite a few classes that change you into an outsider, elemental or fey.
The easiest method though would be either the spell Kissed by the Ages (Dr354) or the Grey Portrait (CoR).
There's also an Elixier of Immortality in Dungeon #112, p.80, but that one makes you undying but still aging so you'll have to combine it with Timeless Body or something similar.
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2014-08-23, 05:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
I think i will go with a "The Picture of Dorian Gray" kind of thing. Thank you all. But I don't plan to use psionics and I have no idea what is an Elan besides a blonde bard.
But reading Order of the Stick after Roy was turned into a bone golem. Is it possible to make a flash golem out of a whole body not just chunks of it?Last edited by S@tanicoaldo; 2014-08-23 at 05:37 PM.
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2014-08-23, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
Not if you want to maintain sentience.
An Elan is a humanoid who is altered, they live forever, and they can use Psionic power points (of which they get one) to survive indefinitely without food or water. They don't have to be a Psionic class either, so you could just use the race and make them another class. They are also notably available on the SRDMy Avatar is Glimtwizzle, a Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist by Cuthalion.
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2014-08-23, 07:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
Nope, Outsider, Natives still age.
Killoren, Neraph and Warforged are the 0 LA early bird options. Otherwise, Double Polymorph Any Object or layered Persisted Polymorph into some sort of Construct, Outsider or Fey.
And then, there are the spells/items as mentioned before, though the spell is Dragon Mag and DMs have a habit of not allowing it.
If they do though, Try to convince your DM to allow you Wedded to History, and have him 'fix' it by adding the RACSD Endless feature to what it grants. I personally like using WtH[Wanderer]+Bard with Bardic knack to have all the skills. [All skills become untrained, skills normally trained only take -4 if you have no ranks, Bardic Knack gives you ranks. You also get a DC 15 Int check to understand/speak any language]
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2014-08-23, 07:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
My Avatar is Glimtwizzle, a Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist by Cuthalion.
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2014-08-23, 07:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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2014-08-23, 07:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
From a fluff perspective, Necropolitans (undead template from Libris Mortis) are probably a better choice than liches. Necropolitans have this weird undead metabolism thing that means that they still get natural healing, and can even heal from ability damage at the same rate as they did when they were alive. You could easily argue that that means that, while they're still undead and thus don't have to do things like breathe, they tend to do it anyways because they're at least somewhat similar to living things, just flipped over the death axis. Plus, Necropolitans are much easier to incorporate at lower levels than liches.
There's also the second-level spell Disguise Undead from the Spell Compendium.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/ps...aces.htm#elans
And they have no maximum age. I know I for one would be totally accepting of Elans instead having aging be optional, not gaining either age penalties or bonuses.
Necropolitans are technically LA 0 (they just lose a level and then some XP upon becoming undead)
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2014-08-23, 09:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
My Avatar is Glimtwizzle, a Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist by Cuthalion.
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2014-08-23, 10:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
In one Pathfinder game I was in, I was thinking of getting my Witch the Forced Reincarnation Hex (Will save or the target dies, and is immediately reincarnated naked, race-randomized, and down two levels) and using it as a cheaty sort of life-extension, as nothing in the book says you can't use it on yourself.
Imagine if all real-world conversations were like internet D&D conversations...
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2014-08-23, 10:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
My Avatar is Glimtwizzle, a Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist by Cuthalion.
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2014-08-23, 10:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
What game is this for? It's in the general roleplaying section, and the specific game and possibly edition of the game is pretty key. There being liches suggests D&D, but even then it varies highly by edition.
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2014-08-24, 12:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
Yeah, but that's like using a Davy Crockett, way overkill. Plus, mundane checks can't be dispelled.
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2014-08-24, 12:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
My Avatar is Glimtwizzle, a Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist by Cuthalion.
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2014-08-24, 04:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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2014-08-24, 07:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
There was a character in one of the FR novels that was some kind of mage very much tied to aberrations who basically became an aberrant creature of some kind, and through the prestige class or template? (I really have no idea) he became immortal. And it specifically mentioned him not needing to eat or sleep or(I think) breath.
You could try to work that somewhat into the campaign or his backstory? It may not be ideal for the person in mind, but there are many PrCs that give spellcasters different creature types and if one of those would fit the character, then you could work in that it also makes them effectively un-aging.Thanks to Kymme for my sweet avatar of Bendar Roy, my kick@$$ dwarven rogue.
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2014-08-24, 09:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
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2014-08-24, 10:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
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2014-08-24, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Immortality without undeath
My Avatar is Glimtwizzle, a Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist by Cuthalion.