Help on an invading race.

[Falrin]

As noted I'm looking for a suitable race for a large, invading/migrating army. I was thinking along the lines of the huns/mongols.

From the beginning:

The human empire has discovered and invaded a 'savage' new continent. They dispatched the orc tribes living there and enslaved them. Their hunger for more territory drives them further south in the gnoll-controlled plains. The superior human amry starts off with some easy victories against the divided Gnoll-tribes, but soon they find themselves fighting bigger, joined tribes and reach a stalemate and retreat behind the great river separating the land. Nothing wrong here, but instead of settling with this the gnolls seem quit desperate to leave their lands. Masses of gnoll tribes clutch together trying to cross the river. Officials see it as a counter-invasion, but somethings definalty wrong. Borderguards get more and more trouble containing these gnolls who look desperate to cross the river. But what's causing this?

A vast army is invading the gnoll-plains, but I have trouble finding a suitable race.

prereq:
Mobility; I like them to be fast and flexible. Riding some monsters or being fast themselves.

Melee; The game is quit low on magic so I don't like hordes of casters running around.

Fluff; Flavor is no issue at all. Any race (good, evil, cowerdy, ...) with the right stats is ok.

Ideas:

Kobolds. Take a player variant and go with it. Riding big lizards and led by dragons this could be something. I only need something extra to meet the melee part, I don't want my invading army to have -4str/-2con. A good, obsscure race or something homebrewn that fits the melee-lizard would be nice. (lizardfolks are already in use elsewhere)

Centaurs. This would fit both melee and mobility, but somehow they have never appealed to me.

Devils. Hordes of devils in all sizes and forms had something going for it.


So in short: Be free to post any suitable race, homebrew or RAW, any comments or ideas, any expirience or stories that could be usefull.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

If you're not opposed to their inclusion, a Warforged army would be a pretty serious threat. Since you're likely not doing Ebberon, you could explain them as being the remnants of a wizard's attempt at making his own army before he realized, too late, that it was a terrible mistake giving them true sentience and they subsequently overthrew and killed the wizard, then became a massive raiding party since their only real use was warfare.

[Cybren]

If you're not opposed to their inclusion, a Warforged army would be a pretty serious threat. Since you're likely not doing Ebberon, you could explain them as being the remnants of a wizard's attempt at making his own army before he realized, too late, that it was a terrible mistake giving them true sentience and they subsequently overthrew and killed the wizard, then became a massive raiding party since their only real use was warfare.

true sapience

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Tomato, tomato, carrot, lettuce- more or less similar.

[Fizban]

From the definitions I've heard, any animal is sentient. Sapient means it can think, as in human/smart apes.

On topic:
Lycanthropes? Plenty of low HD mobile animals around.

[Weirdlet]

Elves might be a good thing to try, elves or drow with a more above-ground theme- thought it'd be neat to see evil or at least obnoxiously conquest-thirsty elves.

[BDO]

...

As noted I'm looking for a suitable race for a large, invading/migrating army. I was thinking along the lines of the huns/mongols.

prereq:
Mobility; I like them to be fast and flexible. Riding some monsters or being fast themselves.

Melee; The game is quit low on magic so I don't like hordes of casters running around.

Fluff; Flavor is no issue at all. Any race (good, evil, cowerdy, ...) with the right stats is ok.

...

So in short: Be free to post any suitable race, homebrew or RAW, any comments or ideas, any expirience or stories that could be usefull.

What about the Githyanki?

Mobility: They have Red Dragon Riders

Melee: They fight very well, due to Stats and Special Abilities

Fluff: Stats are good, as well as the fact that they have a high percentage of Psi-people.

And nothing beats a githyanki astral carrier ship launching their Dragon Riders in an emergency dive... (Think New Battlestar Galactica: The New Caprica orbit scene from Season 3)

Elves might be a good thing to try, elves or drow with a more above-ground theme- thought it'd be neat to see evil or at least obnoxiously conquest-thirsty elves.

If you want above earth Drow, use the Eberron Drow. They have a knack for scorpions instead of spiders and are desert dwelling nomads.

[Dhavaer]

You could use barbarians, of any race your want, backed up by a kind of creature with abilities focussed on rage. I never really statted them out, but they were going to have rage as an at will SLA, the ability to double any effects from rage within an area, and fast healing for every raging individual within that area.
I had the idea that they were the remnants of the maenad deity, but they'd be just as useful without psionics.

[Wehrkind]

Sapient means wise and discerning. Sapient >> sentient, which is merely aware and capable of independant thought. Sentient was what he was looking for.

It might be fun to have the "invaders" be the local animal life driven to maddness by a druid or enclave of druids intent on destroying the gnolls (and eventually humans) who are despoiling their lands. That the tides of rampaging animals might be a problem hasn't really entered into their equation, or has but they consider it repairable damage compared to civilization's advance. Herds of large animals, even small animals, predators and all manner of rodents and little things aught to strike fear in the hearts of anyone, as all the fauna in a 3 mile radius converges on one town in a giant horde.

In the same vein, even just giant ants would be scary enough.

[Falrin]

I regret to inform you I have no access to any ebberon material.

Warforged: As I understand the are sentient golems, build for war with some DR, high AC and immunities. Regretebly not really the style I'm aiming at. (low magic & low tech, should ahve mentioned that)

The elves thing is not really an option as they already have a very specific role in the world. On the otjher hand I do like the surface dwelling drow idea. Can I find the Eberron variant anywhere online or should I rewrite the drow myself.

Where can i find the githyanki (and the fluff you seem to have acces to)

[Sardia]

I'd go with elves, and have them use lightly domesticated bison as mounts. That ought to be appropriately scary at any distance-- far away worry about elven mounted archers. Close up, that's a surly 5-hd mount with a gore attack.

[Destro_Yersul]

Information about the Githyanki can be found in both the MM and the DMG (Astral Plane section) IIRC...

[Dark]

I suddenly have these visions of a rampaging horde of fleshraker dinosaurs

[Hypothetical]

OK, just an idea....you may think it sounds stupid, but read it out...

A combined army, consisting of 50% Trolls, 25% Dwarves, and 25% Half-Troll/half dwarves.

Basic backstory...Ages past a large group of Trolls captured a Dwarven mining community. Most of the dwarves were slaughtered, but a small number sold themselves out to the Trolls, in exchange for life, and gold. Over the decades the trolls have interbred with the dwarves, creating a third race ( call them Dwrolls, if that's not to bad of a pun for you to handle).

You have the makings of a heck of an army.

Trolls are your basic Melee fighters. Hard to kill, heavy hitters, but medium slow.

Dwarves, not only are the good at Melee, and hard to kill, but a small percentage of them are magic users.

Dwrolls however...well, because of thier unusual lot in life, never fitting in, quite a few of them have taken to the various mystic arts. You have Giant Dwarves ( love that Oxy-moron) that regenerate in close combat. Small numbers of them are wizards and priests, either dealing out huge ammounts of damage, or healing up others.

Give them a good reason for being nomads....the war of the Trolls Vs. the Dwarves shattered the caves/mines that the dwarves called home forcing them to shift to a forageing type culture to survive comes to mind, and there you go.

Riders..well, any of the greater lizards come to mind. ( Especially for the Trolls.) Can you imagine anything more terrifiying than a Troll mounted on something that looks like a cross between a Velociraptor and a Komodo Dragon? ( Or, if you want to get really vicious with your party, assuming they are relitivly high level, have 5% of your mounted troops riding hatchling, or very young, Red Dragons.) ( Yes yes, you mentioned this as an entire nation, but I have to assume you have a core party of PCs running, or else why would you post this here, in the Gaming Forum?)

[Morty]

What about goblins? They make good riders thanks to +4 Ride bonus. They could be riding on Worgs, and goblins fit 'horde of barbaric invaders' perfectly.

[PinkysBrain]

Devils and demons don't invade, a lot of them can jump planes at will ... they are simply not interested.

Why are they invading ... and why now? Do they have some bigger scheme for entering the region, or did a charismatic leader simply decide to turn to expansionism?

[Marius]

I would go with Formians, they are quick (50ft for the Myrmarch, 40ft for everyone else), agressive and very lawful. And they are already worked out to be an army.

There're no flying Formian but you could easily create flying formians warriors with insect-like wings less strenght and more agility.

[Nevermore]

Perhaps Lizard Folk? A horde of green scaled death? Black Scaled Berserkers? Poision Dusk Scouts, Rogues, Rangers and Assassins? The Lizard tribes riding dinosaurs with Poison Dusk light cavalry could be a threat.

[psiryu]

Bugbears maybe, not sure about speed but they fit the melee requirement.

[Lapak]

Three things appeal to me:

Formians: though I don't like them in the planes, I like them fine for this. Army ants!

Wemics: More aggressive and fearsome then centaurs, appropriate for the open plains/savannah, has the thematic interest of lions running of hyenas.

Hobgoblins: Take the Huns idea and make it literal with Hobgoblins. Hobgoblin horse archers would be wickedly difficult to deal with.

[PnP Fan]

Why stick with one race? You are thinking mongol hordes in terms of motif, the mongol hordes started off as a bunch of tribes that the Khan united. So grab your warg riding goblins, your barbaric hordes of hobgoblins, a tribe of trolls, etc. . . and stick them under the rule of one very powerful something (perhaps a half dragon bent on revenge against the human communities for turning him out into the wastelands at a young age, or something similar).

Conversely, you could shoot for the hordes of chaos emerging into the world and running the other races out of the lands they used to control. Perhaps an invasion of the aberrations (beholders, aboleth, etc. . .) united under the most powerful of their kind. This is actually a major theme in the ECS.

[Piccamo]

From a deep and dark labyrinth, the Maze of Rilak, across the plains in the Mountain of Terror comes The Horde. None knows how these terrors from the deep actually look for they are robed in black and wear white masks to distort their faces. They ride several beasts of burden: elephants, horses, and camels. At battle they first release hundreds of bears onto the field, intoxicated by a special elixir created from a plant that only grows within the Maze...

You could use catfolk for the hordes since they're quick and agile. They're in Races of the Wild page 92. Using animals to great effect can create a terrorizing foe.

[Quietus]

If you want something mobile on its own, without use of a mount, try the Dragonkin from the Draconomicon. I can give more information if you're interested, but they're essentially somewhere between half-dragon humans and lizardfolk. Large sized, mounstrous humanoid (reptilian). Slow on land (20 feet), but fly 40 feet (good). CR 3, usually chaotic evil. Extremely scary to fight en masse due to flight mobility and several abilities (such as foreclaws and rake, or longspear/flyby attack).


Alternatively, you could use my Barbarians of the Central Plains. Brutish, they live in a very primal world, with a tribal system (led by shamans and the like). The plains they come from are home to dinosaurs, and one of the barbarian rites of coming to age is capturing/rearing and training one of your own. They also have unique sheilds, weapons, and armor made from stone and the scales of dead dinosaurs.

Barbarians of Central Plains (medium humanoids)
Hit dice : 6d12+12, 57 HP
Initiative : +2 (+3 mounted)
Speed : 40 feet (60 mounted)
Armor class : 20
Base attack/grapple : +6/+9
Attack : +10 melee (1d8+3, stone club) or +10 melee (2d8+4, stone greatclub) or +9 ranged (1d8+3, stone head javelin)
Full attack : +10/+5 melee (1d8+3, stone club) or +10/+5 melee (2d8+4, stone greatclub) or +9 ranged (1d8+3, stone head javelin)
Space/reach : 5 feet/5 feet
Special attacks :
Special qualities : rage 2/day, fast movement, illiteracy, uncanny dodge, trap sense +2, Improved uncanny dodge
Saves : Fortitude +7, Reflex +4, Will +3
Abilities : Strength 18, Dexterity 16, Consitution 14, Intelligence 10, Wisdom 12, Charisma 10
Skills : Listen +10, Survival +10, Handle Animal +9, Ride +13
Feats : Mounted combat, spirited charge, ride-by attack, trample

Deinonychus mount (Large animal)
4d8 + 24 (42 hp)
Initiative +3
Speed 60 feet
AC 17 (-1 size, +3 dex, +5 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 14
Base attack/grapple : +3/+11
Attack : Talons +8 melee (2d6+6)
Full attack : Talons +6 melee (2d6+6) and 2 foreclaws +4 melee (1d3+3) and bite +4 melee (2d4+3)
Space/reach : 10 feet/5 feet
Special attacks : Pounce
Special qualities : Low-light vision, scent
Saves : Fort +10, reflex +7, will +2
Abilities : str 23, dex 17, con 22, int 2, wis 12, cha 10
Skills : Hide +8, jump +28, listen +10, spot +10, survival +10
Feats : Multiattack, track

Possessions :
Dino-hide armor, dino-scale shield, stone club, stone greatclub, 4 stone-head javelins, exotic saddle

Dino-hide armor : +5 AC, +4 max dex, -2 ACP, must always be made masterwork – this is figured into the ACP already. Cost : 500 gold, weight : 30 lbs, light armor.
Dino-scale shield : +3 AC, -1 ACP, must always be made masterwork – this is figured into the ACP already. Cost : 250 gold, weight : 20 lbs.


Their weapons cost no more than the typical ones, but are made of stone, and function as though they were one size larger. They're well made, but heavy, so someone unfamiliar with their use takes a -1 penalty to attack rolls. These barbarians are raised learning to use these weapons, so they don't suffer that penalty.


Overall, I'd say that these guys are probably CR 3-4 without their mount, and about 5 with it. There's noncombatants, of course, in any given tribe - they'd be low-level humans (best to give them a level or two to represent the harsh conditions that these barbarians live in)

[its_all_ogre]

thri-kreen with barbarian levels!
even xeph would be interesting

[MaxKaladin]

I was also planning to suggest Wemics.

Another idea I've had in the past were horse-nomad elves. Instead of living in forests, these elves live on horseback and are still just as deadly with bows.

[Meat Shield]

Anytime I want an obscure race that no one has fought before, I pull out the Saurials.

An army of intelligent bipedal dinosaurs would give me the willies, especially if they have Tyrannosaur or Triceratops mounts. Plus there are four different kinds. including a flyer.

[its_all_ogre]

hmm yes that would be quite effective and scary(have not seen their 3.5 ed stats, just their 2nd ed)
i would avoid something with too much speed personally because otherwise they would kill the gnolls before they get to flee, thus them fleeing from the army seems a bit odd(unless you have some story reason to cover this problem)
prepare for the pcs trying to ally with the gnolls though!

[ZekeArgo]

Actually... why not Raptorians? Change their flavor a little bit to make em more hobgoblin/mongol-esque and you've got an invading race of tactical fliers running deadly skirmishes or swooping in on top of formations to break ranks and cause general confusion.

[Black Hand]

The Monster Manual ][ has ((I can't remember the name)) a race of Sentient creatures that are like Bee-People, who are LN to the extreme and are very expansionist...Perhaps using something like that would add some flavor...

...or make them more like wasps and need creatures (such as gnolls and eventually humans) to lay their eggs in.

[Morgan_Scott82]

An important consideration in composing this invading army is what are you intending them to do for your story? Are they going to be the main conflict for you PCs to struggle valiantly against, or will they be a background element serving to color and flavor a part of the world not necessarily directly connected to the PCs but rather "over there".

A second consideration is do you intend them to be successful in their invasion or to be turned back? If successful, how successful? A hard fought victory, or an easy win. Same goes for if they're defeated, was it easy or did it consume vast portions of the defenders wealth and resources.

I like Quietus' dinosaur idea so I may borrow it for my own recomendation

Also what is the mean level of the humans who will oppose them (not the PCs but the everyday mooks who will make up the bulk of the human defenders.) This is directly tied to the question above, if the average defender of the human settlement is a CR 1/2 human warrior 1 then, if he's to successfully defend his post for any meaningful length of time then the opposition needs to be of suitable CR. Whereas if the guard is intended to turn tail and run, he can be vastly outmatched.

If you post thoughts on these questions it will help people give you more meaningful solutions.

As for my personal input: Lizardmen. Below is an address from King Gehrout of the human colonies that have settled on the banks of the Great River to his country men, spread far and wide by his bards.

"My Countrymen, today we face a great foe, the tribes of the scaled swamps (Lizardmen) previously too concerned with infighting to be any significant threat beyond their murky homes to the south have banded together under the leadership of Khangah (A mongol title for 'great king' or king of many tribes) Ruuk'shh (I'm thinking Druid
\ Barbarian of appropriate BBEG CR) and now pour forth from their marsh homes in numbers greater than any previous estimations, their baggage train extends for miles, and their foraging leaves the lands barren. Their vicious beastmasters have trained for war the terrible creatures (Dinosaurs) of their homelands beyond the Darkspire mountains. Thier outriders astride the devastating Quickclaw (Modern Dinosaur name: Achillobator, recomended D&D stats, Advanced Deinonychus), in siege they bring forth the mighty Smashtail (Ankylosaur), who's mighty tail can fell city walls and who's armor protects it from defenders arrows or heavy stones. In open feild they loose the deadly Sharptooth (T-rex), who's fangs stand larger then daggers and can fell our heavy cavalry with but one kick or well placed bite.

As I speak this army marches upon us, they have defeated our army in the field, and flow accross the Gnoll-Plains like a great wave. They shall reach the Great River within the week and so I put forth this call for conscription. All able-bodied men capable of bearing arms shall be assembled and outfit for war, we will hold them at the river banks and break their wave as a mighty seacliff wall and send them back to their homes battered and broken. A sign of our resolve that will live in history for ages to come!

Those we leave behind, the women and children, spread the word of the coming assault make known to all who travel within our lands the terrible threat that approaches, and pray to the gods for heroes."

This gives you a hook, a wide variety of CRs available, since the base lizard man is low, but if you add class levels or dinosaurs to the mix you can get the CR up to higher levels pretty quick. It also allows you to play the "mysterious" card, all the people really know about them are the result of the ealier skirmishes and old rumors and legends learned from the gnolls of the Gnoll-plains about a conquest ages past.

I hope this has been helpful.