Playing as an Incubus/Succubus?

[Duskwither]

Now, my group quite often runs multiple campaigns simultaneously, run by different people and the like.

Now, something I had in mind, was playing a Succubus/Incubus with the ambition of sireing as many half-fiend children as s/he can on the material realm, and within a generation, his/her offspring would cause quite a bit of havoc about the world.

I like the concept. Mechanically, I may need some help. Using the Savage Species (tweaked a bit, silly 3.0 material), I could start from the get-go with the character at level 1, however... I'd like to powergame the character as much as possible, and I'm uncertain of the best way to go. Sorcerer levels to stack with the casting? Rogue to go with sneakiness/skills? Or some PrC I'm not thinking of?

Any help would be much appreciated.

[Fixer]

Outsiders and dragons are 80% more likely to gain more from advancing in hit dice than class levels (Full BAB, high skill points each, Excellent saves each). The only reason an outsider or dragon should take class levels is to obtain class features or meet prerequisites for a prestige class in which they want the class features.

[Yuki Akuma]

Unfortunately, succubus monster levels won't entirely be HD. They'll also simply be LA. Just taking class levels would be better.

[Quietus]

Although, what does the outsider hit dice offer other than BAB, saves, and the like? Skills are nice, but your list is limited.

I'd say that either Rogue or Sorceror is your best option. You have charisma out the wazoo, use it! Being a sorceror would give you a little bit of a more legitimate backdrop, and give you access to some entertaining spells - though you'll probably want to focus more on the save-or-sucks, simply because anything that's based on your level will be gimped. Roguery is entertaining if you want to play the sneaky, creepy person who can get anywhere s/he likes - follow up your Rogue levels with Theif-Acrobat for some late night action!

After all, I'm sure the Duke would pay well for someone who's capable of flying up to his window in the middle of the night to help sate the desires that his wife is leaving unfulfilled, so he doesn't have to risk being seen - what better alibi is there than "I was at home with you, honey!"?

Alternatively - bard. Ranks in two different perform skills - one that uses an instrument, one that... uses a different instrument. That's always something that's enjoyed... and how better to fascinate a person? Plus then you get neat little toys like that version of Silence bards get, what is it, sculpt sound? Anyone within 5 feet of you can hear those inside the bubble, but to those outside of it, you're completely silent?

[Fixer]

6 hit dice plus 6 level adjustments

I thought it SPECIFICALLY STATED in the Savage Species that once you begin in a 'racial class' you MUST continue through to its completion before you can take any other class levels?

[Quietus]

It does, but who follows anything it says in Savage Species?

[Khantalas]

You should play a brachina instead and have nice, feathery wings and the baatezu subtype.

[Telonius]

Beguiler from the PHB2 might be a good class for you.

EDIT: The casting is Intelligence-based, but you don't need to worry about charisma if you're a Succubus.

[Swordguy]

I hesitate at recommending it, but you may want to look at the BoEF, if you can find a copy. If nothing else, adding an Appearance score sounds about right for you, and there's a bunch of seduction rules listed (so it doesn't become of a game of the DM saying "no you can't" and you saying "but I got a 77 on my check").

Look at the Fey Enticer PrC.

I've used it my games (all my PCs are 25 or older), and in fact the most poignant moment has come from the party Fighter/mage and half-nymph Bard comforting a woman who had been taken for sex slave service by ogres. No X-rated description, but a just hint of what had happened to her, and that produced a solid 3 hours of pure RP. In all things related to sex in a D&D game, moderation is the key.

[Caelestion]

It does, but who follows anything it says in Savage Species?

That's like saying, "but who cares about rules and fair play?"

[Duskwither]

Fixer and Yuki: I'm unsure of the benefits I'd recieve as merely advancing as an Outsider. Would my list of SLAs increase?

Quietus: Yeah, that's what I was thinking, probably Sorc. I like the flavor of bards, but not for this guy. Interesting ideas though, I hope you don't mind if I put some to use? Also... Hey, wait, I follow what that silly book says!

Khantalas: I love both demons and devils quite a bit. Though, I'm a bit unfamiliar with the Brachina...

Telonius: Int-based casting scared me there, I'd prefer to go off of charisma because I'll be starting with something like a 32.

Swordguy: Hehe, a friend has that book. Although, we usually try to refrain from using it. An appearance score sounds right up my alley. I by no means plan to actually RP out the... Conceptions, mind you! Fading to black and moderation has always been the norm with us.

Thank you all for the help! If there's anything else out there that may help me maximize this character a bit more, I'd love to hear it!

[Dark Tira]

Eventually, Improved Energy Drain and Life Drain from Libris Mortis may be worthwhile. If you end up using the energy drain ability alot anyways.

[Fixer]

Fixer and Yuki: I'm unsure of the benefits I'd recieve as merely advancing as an Outsider. Would my list of SLAs increase?

All spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, and extraordinary abilities with saving throws of some kind (as far as I have been able to tell) are based on the 10 + ½HD + Ability Modifier + misc (feats, racial bonuses, etc) formula. As such, all should improve as you increase in HD.

[SpiderBrigade]

That's like saying, "but who cares about rules and fair play?"

Agreed, if one is going to use the Monster Class from the book, I think it should be assumed that one will use the restrictions on those classes as well. Otherwise you're getting perks without the drawbacks.

If one takes a look at the monster class, the balance is supposed to take place by the fact that you get HD - and the corresonding saves, skills, and BAB - at a much slower rate. But if you take only the first level, or even just the first 3 (missing out on 1 HD), and then progress in a normal PC class, you will be getting a frontloaded monstrosity of a character. At first level alone you're getting +2 Dex, +6 Cha, natural armor, energy resistances, darkvision, poison immunity, +8 bonuses to several skills, a natural attack, and the alternate form ability (although you are limited to a single humanoid form). Oh and 3 good saves. The more levels you take in the class, the less drastic your advantage is, so that by the time you take your first "real" class level at 13th, you've absorbed the level adjustment and the racial hit dice of a succubus.

[Closet_Skeleton]

That's like saying, "but who cares about rules and fair play?"

Who uses the rule that says Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial's spell-like abilities are based of racial HD and aren't effected by increases in class level?

[Telonius]

If you weren't going the Full Caster route, a Blackguard could give you some extreme cheese on saves. Dark Blessing allows you to add your Charisma bonus to all saves, much like the Paladin's Divine Grace.

[Quietus]

In regard to my earlier Savage Species comment - I was being facetious, as the general attitude on these boards toward that book is that it's rather silly. I've been known to use it on occasion myself, one of my first major enemies I ever had PCs meet with was a 3.0 anthromorphic rat with 24 rat companions.

Duskwither - By all means, feel free to take some or all of those ideas. I wouldn'tve put them out there if I didn't think they could be of use.

[Ulzgoroth]

Who uses the rule that says Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial's spell-like abilities are based of racial HD and aren't effected by increases in class level?

If you mean which ones you get access to, not even the Monster Manual itself (though I don't see anywhere where it proposes that rule either). The sample level 9 paladin gets spell-like abilities appropriate to his hit dice, not his non-existant racial hit dice.

[Dark]

Definitely go Incubus for this, not Succubus.

Unless you have some sort of Rapid Gestation feat :)

[The_Snark]

All spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, and extraordinary abilities with saving throws of some kind (as far as I have been able to tell) are based on the 10 + ½HD + Ability Modifier + misc (feats, racial bonuses, etc) formula. As such, all should improve as you increase in HD.

Not spell-like abilities. Those have a save DC equal to 10 + spell level + Cha modifier (for SLAs, I'm pretty sure it's always Charisma).

Blackguard and Hexblade are pretty good choices if you decide not to go full caster. Remember, as a succubus (or incubus) you can Charm, Suggest, Teleport, and go ethereal at will. Sorcerer would work, but don't bother with charms and suggestions since you already have them. Thief-acrobat has limited use to someone who can teleport and fly at will, but Rogue works fine.

Mindspy and Warshaper are also interesting choices for a succubus character. Mindspy will let you read people's thoughts faster, more easily, and even in combat, getting bonuses from it; nice both in combat and intrigue. Warshaper's more combat-based, but it's a cool class anyway.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

I made up a special devil race based on mythology called a Eumenides (bonus points to anyone that gets the refference. If you don't, look it up- it explains exactly what I made, and why). It was a very fun character to play as, and very similar in many respects to a succubus/incubus. Especially since the levels after buy-off helped me meet the prereqs for a lot of nifty prestige classes early.

I made this one a spellsword. The stat enhancements simply shouted "melee caster!", you know?

[Dhavaer]

I made up a special devil race based on mythology called a Eumenides (bonus points to anyone that gets the refference. If you don't, look it up- it explains exactly what I made, and why).

The Kindly Ones?

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Correct- what became of the Erinyes after Athena intervened and changed them. In D&D terms, an Erinyes that a god changed to a good alignment, basically.

[Rama_Lei]

Definitely go Incubus for this, not Succubus.

Unless you have some sort of Rapid Gestation feat :)

Wait. Nothing is scary than a pregnant succubus....Nothing.

[Generic PC]

This is an... odd topic. I would go with the idea of one taking one succubi/incubi class level if you want to power game, as it does kind of front load your abilities...

[SpiderBrigade]

...which is why it's illegal, unless you want to ignore that part of the rules.

[Ardantis]

You know, I'd still consider Bard- you don't have to play a silly frivolous bard, obviously, and you kinda get both of what you were asking for. Move Silently and Hide are both class skills, so you can totally go the stealth route (invisibility is on the spell list...) but still take advantage of the high charisma for spellcasting/performing. PLUS Sorcerers are really gimped in the social department, having only Bluff and not Disguise, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive.

As for perform, there are a few silent perform skills you could go with, like dance, that mesh well with a more stealth/acrobatic kinda character.

Think of it as more of a spy bard.

Just my two cents.

[Duskwither]

Dark Tira: Yeah, considering what the character may end up doing a lot, I may just check with my DM to see if he'd let me grab those.

Fixer: I see... Well, the stats have been rolled, and I'm throwing an 18 into Charisma, so I don't think I'll need to boost DCs with further Outsider HD. Thanks, though!

Spider Brigade: Oh yeah. I wouldn't dream of stopping right in the middle of taking the class. Seems too... unrealistic (despite the fact it's high fantasy and I'm playing a mythical creature ) to do that to the character.

Telonius: That's not such a bad idea... If nothing else, it might actually be worth the two-level dip.

Quietus: Will do!

Dark: Hah! In most settings I've played in, Succubi and Incubi are the same thing, as they can change gender and the like. In my games, and I've suggested it to my DM, they're to be different, as far as natural forms are concerned. Rapid Gestation Feat... *snickers*

Rama_Lei: I'd be willing to agree with that, because evidently the amount of time they're carrying the child is directly related to how much HD they have.

Ardantis: As much as I do love the Bard class, I think I may give it a back seat for now, as someone else in my group does like it more then I, however... Nobody in our group enjoys playing casters of any ilk aside from myself and one other person (and they dislike non-spontaneous casting), so I don't think I'll be going that route.

I convinced my DM to allow me my full benefit of mental stats that you get as you progress in the monster class, to have up-front. He thought it was silly that something that's lived as long as it has (in theory) has its mentals stats gimped right off. So, this'll make me pretty uber skills-wise right off.

However, our group has never really tried to one-up eachother or anything, and character balance never seems to come up (I lied, it does when I play a wizard. ;>_>), this likely won't break the game.

[AtomicKitKat]

Incubus is statted out in the March Dragon. Inside the Demonomicon of Iggwilv, Malcanthet...

[Duskwither]

Incubus is statted out in the March Dragon. Inside the Demonomicon of Iggwilv, Malcanthet...

Really??? Where can I pick that up???