Erfworld thread IV: In memory of King Saline

[Porthos]

So what happened to the double eagle (the bird)? It may have been a double-edged sword but they would not have won the Battle of the Storm Hex without it (once Forecastle figured out how to properly use it, that is).

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Reading between the lines....

Then, out of sheer dumb luck, he had managed to discover an unclaimed capital site on his way home.

I would reckon that it survived.

[Lizard Lord]

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Reading between the lines....



I would reckon that it survived.

Well, okay. Then what? I was just wondering why it hasn't really been mentioned.

[Killer Angel]

I love this bittersweet ending. I think this might be my favorite Erfworld story.

It's only a part of the ending. We still have to wait Epilogue two.

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And apparently, you can defect your side and not be disbanded. Special circumstances, i believe.

[Lethologica]

It's only a part of the ending. We still have to wait Epilogue two.

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And apparently, you can defect your side and not be disbanded. Special circumstances, i believe.

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It's special circumstances for a defector to be disbanded, I think--specifically, being under a Loyalty spell. I'm probably forgetting something, though.

[HalfTangible]

It's only a part of the ending. We still have to wait Epilogue two.

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And apparently, you can defect your side and not be disbanded. Special circumstances, i believe.

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I don't see why not =/ i mean deliberate defection hasn't really been covered as of yet.

[EnragedFilia]

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"Defection" has been covered as "voluntary turning" (namely what Orwell, the lookamancer from FAQ did by turning to Haffaton). Leaving one's side in order to found a new one would differ only insofar as it involves creating a side at the same time as turning to it.

And personally, I initially read Cat's words during dinner from Forecastle's perspective and still didn't think it was particularly hurtful. Maybe I'm making inaccurate assumptions about his personality or something?

[slayerx]

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"Defection" has been covered as "voluntary turning" (namely what Orwell, the lookamancer from FAQ did by turning to Haffaton). Leaving one's side in order to found a new one would differ only insofar as it involves creating a side at the same time as turning to it.

And personally, I initially read Cat's words during dinner from Forecastle's perspective and still didn't think it was particularly hurtful. Maybe I'm making inaccurate assumptions about his personality or something?

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Well you do have to imagine that forecastle would have some not so fond memories about his time on that ship. The double eagle may have saved his butt in the end, but taming the eagle led to getting keel-hauled, being treated like a prisoner, the scorn of the men, and ultimately is the high mark of seaworld epic tale of the bubbling land lubber. Simply put, that is one of them moments he might rather forget about, and its painful to hear her bring it up.

[Lethologica]

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It's the bit about loving to climb around the mainmast with a bucket, which is a lie, and also the sneering attitude, that hurt Forecastle. They represent what he sees--at that point--as Cat's betrayal.

[Radar]

Considering everything we learned about Luckamancy in general and Double Eagles in particular, do you think Parson's Mathamancy artifact can calculate Luckamancy costs of varied blessings and curses? The potential is quite interesting to ponder.

[ObadiahtheSlim]

Considering everything we learned about Luckamancy in general and Double Eagles in particular, do you think Parson's Mathamancy artifact can calculate Luckamancy costs of varied blessings and curses? The potential is quite interesting to ponder.

Luckamancy + Mathamancy seem to be a very potent combo. Mathamancy seems to give you enough insight to how the dice rolls work that you can optimally use Luckamancy to adjust the rolls.

[slayerx]

Luckamancy + Mathamancy seem to be a very potent combo. Mathamancy seems to give you enough insight to how the dice rolls work that you can optimally use Luckamancy to adjust the rolls.

Parson and Sizemore think its good too
You use mathamncy to figure out the battles where you'll need that extra luck the most.

[Killer Angel]

Makes sense. In every GdR / boardgame / wargame / cardgame, and so on, there are nasty combos that give you the edge, and players try to discover them and exploit them. For Erfworld it's the same: some things works together better then other ones.

[Radar]

Not just in games though. Look at our reality and ponder the thought: aren't all technologies ever devised also exploits of our universe's rules? Science is just reverse-engeneering (or decompiling) of those rules. The only difference is, when scientists find something really weird they say it's a feature and not a bug.

[TechnoWarforged]

So back to the story: Any chance that Eagle Keys turned into the now RightShoring?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Nah. Eagle Keys is a bunch of islands. Rightshoring might be another colony, though.

[EnragedFilia]

Not just in games though. Look at our reality and ponder the thought: aren't all technologies ever devised also exploits of our universe's rules? Science is just reverse-engeneering (or decompiling) of those rules. The only difference is, when scientists find something really weird they say it's a feature and not a bug.

Well, yeah, usually. But sometimes calling it a bug is just funnier.

[HandofShadows]

Well, yeah, usually. But sometimes calling it a bug is just funnier.

Cute trick, but that does follow the laws of physics.

[Kornaki]

Cute trick, but that does follow the laws of physics.

That was the whole point of the post, that it follows the laws of physics but is still crazy that it works.

[Porthos]

*DING* .... *DING*
*DING* .... *DING*
*DING* .... *DING*

New Forecastle up.

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That bit about the 'terrible implications' for a Warlord using Luckamancy Reserve (from his point of view, at least) was interesting, to say the least. His unease with the concept shines through as a sunny day. Might be a reason why he's not particularly sad to see that double eagles are not getting tamed regularly upon ships.

[The Glyphstone]

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Yeah. For Titan-worshippers, that's got be pretty darn close to heresy, or at least apostasy. Can you imagine how Wanda would react to something like this?

[HandofShadows]

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Yeah. For Titan-worshippers, that's got be pretty darn close to heresy, or at least apostasy. Can you imagine how Wanda would react to something like this?

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Not sure she would have a problem actually. Manipulating luck is not going to change fate.

[EnragedFilia]

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Not sure she would have a problem actually. Manipulating luck is not going to change fate.

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From the perspective of a simple soldier, sailor, or non-caster warlord, that distinction is probably less than relevant. As far as they seem to be concerned, luck and fate are both manifestations of the Titans' will, which means luckamancy in general is tantamount to intruding upon the divine domain. I can only presume that Seaworld has somehow never had contact with any sort of caster or they might have at least tried to teach their warlords how these things work. On the other hand, Erfworlders not bothering to attempt to figure out how their own world works (at least outside the magic kingdom and Charlie) has been a fairly major plot point for a while now.

[Killer Angel]

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I really, really like this update.
I find it's so much better to learn about the battle in this way, rather then living it on "live-stream".

[Radar]

I think I might have a theory on why Erfworlders are very unlikely to ever pursue knowledge and propose any innovations: unlike us, they pop as adults with all necessary knowledge for their position and function. They never need to learn in order to live and fulfill their purpose. We on the other hand spend many years learning everything: walking, talking, counting, reasoning and so on and so forth. We need to have curiosity as one of our base instincts, whereas Erforlders don't. We also develop learning skills by training and after years of using them, learning and researching things can easily become a habit.

I think we found ourselves a world, where medieval stasis would be plausible.

[Bird]

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I really, really like this update.
I find it's so much better to learn about the battle in this way, rather then living it on "live-stream".

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Interesting--I was curious how folks would react to the choice to tell this story via flashback. On the one hand, it saps all the urgency out of the tale, because we know (generally) how it'll turn out. On the other hand, the telling is textured by the time Forecastle has had to think about his story--the guilt he's developed, for instance--and by the fact that he's got an audience. We as readers are put in the position of listening to him instead of living through him.

The choice to flash back also allows Rob to elide certain details, because Forecastle wouldn't bother to recount them. Description of setting, for instance, gets cut down. Despite having to spend time on the framing device of what's going on in the present with the captains, the story gets, in some senses, more compact.

[EnragedFilia]

I think I might have a theory on why Erfworlders are very unlikely to ever pursue knowledge and propose any innovations: unlike us, they pop as adults with all necessary knowledge for their position and function. They never need to learn in order to live and fulfill their purpose. We on the other hand spend many years learning everything: walking, talking, counting, reasoning and so on and so forth. We need to have curiosity as one of our base instincts, whereas Erforlders don't. We also develop learning skills by training and after years of using them, learning and researching things can easily become a habit.

I think we found ourselves a world, where medieval stasis would be plausible.

The exception to that paradigm would seem to be casters, who do develop new powers as they level as well as a better understanding of how their magic domain works and the part that it plays in the mechanics of the world. Certain rulers or warlords or whatever such as Crush who happen to be interested in reading about far-flung or long-dead sides and how they might have stumbled upon some obscure mechanic or tricky loophole or other might also develop that measure of curiosity. For that matter, there might just be something unusual about Crush in the first place that gave him the curiosity to interest him in reading as much as he did. Perhaps "curiosity" is some sort of invisible special?

[Bird]

I like Radar's theory--popping knowing essentially everything you have to know could easily lead to intellectual lassitude.

I'd include Sizemore in the list of characters with curiosity: he likes to study magic outside of his own discipline, not for the power, but because it's interesting to him.

Ace & Jack, too, in a "isn't it strange and cool what Parson thinks of" kind of way. (Maybe Maggie, also, though I can't recall her ever trying to innovate on her own.)

Forecastle, of course--recall him reading up on sea creatures, or taking a genuine interest in figuring out how seafaring works. In his case, though, his curiosity had as much to do with necessity & a lack of options as anything else.

Trammenis shows signs of curiosity, too. Actually, I don't think that the number of characters with it undercuts Radar's point--a bunch of characters are curious either because they've been influenced by Parson, or because Rob is trying to underline one of the core themes of the comic.

[Landis963]

I like Radar's theory--popping knowing essentially everything you have to know could easily lead to intellectual lassitude.

I'd include Sizemore in the list of characters with curiosity: he likes to study magic outside of his own discipline, not for the power, but because it's interesting to him.

Ace & Jack, too, in a "isn't it strange and cool what Parson thinks of" kind of way. (Maybe Maggie, also, though I can't recall her ever trying to innovate on her own.)

Forecastle, of course--recall him reading up on sea creatures, or taking a genuine interest in figuring out how seafaring works. In his case, though, his curiosity had as much to do with necessity & a lack of options as anything else.

Trammenis shows signs of curiosity, too. Actually, I don't think that the number of characters with it undercuts Radar's point--a bunch of characters are curious either because they've been influenced by Parson, or because Rob is trying to underline one of the core themes of the comic.

Also, 5/6 of those characters are or were misfits in their sides. Sizemore was "the turd guy," Ace was Holly Shortcake's poor substitute, Forecastle was a landlubber in a seafaring side, Tramennis was the son Slately chose to spend his lies on, Jack was the knave of Faq. Only Maggie appears not to be a misfit in the way Ace or Sizemore were, and surprise surprise, she's the one who doesn't really innovate on her own.

So the roster of proven innovators doesn't diminish Radar's point at all. Enhances it, really.

[EnragedFilia]

Also, 5/6 of those characters are or were misfits in their sides. Sizemore was "the turd guy," Ace was Holly Shortcake's poor substitute, Forecastle was a landlubber in a seafaring side, Tramennis was the son Slately chose to spend his lies on, Jack was the knave of Faq. Only Maggie appears not to be a misfit in the way Ace or Sizemore were, and surprise surprise, she's the one who doesn't really innovate on her own.

So the roster of proven innovators doesn't diminish Radar's point at all. Enhances it, really.

Several of the other potential examples are less clear-cut, mostly because we've seen very little regarding the backstory of Janis, Marie, Isaac (and potentially any of the other Great Minds who support the whole conspiracy thing), Olive, and most of all Charlie. If we consider only non-casters, however, it does seem that the will to attain insights into the world's mechanics is both rare and associated with being in a position regarded as inferior by one's own side.

[Landis963]

Several of the other potential examples are less clear-cut, mostly because we've seen very little regarding the backstory of Janis, Marie, Isaac (and potentially any of the other Great Minds who support the whole conspiracy thing), Olive, and most of all Charlie. If we consider only non-casters, however, it does seem that the will to attain insights into the world's mechanics is both rare and associated with being in a position regarded as inferior by one's own side.

Charlie and Marie are both casters whose roles are stigmatized. Olive is a Carnymancer's daughter and one with direct contact with someone from Stupidworld. Janis and the GMs (Sounds like a good name for a parody heavy mithril band) are just using the innovators as catspaws.