Cosmic Descryer

[Illiterate Scribe]

'The cosmic descryer can draw off excess energy from the multiverse itself to increase his or her effective caster level or enhance any attack roll, saving throw, skill check, or ability check. Drawing off excess energy from the multiverse is dangerous, and it deals the cosmic descryer 5 points of damage for each +1 bonus applied to a single roll or +1 caster level on a single spell.'

Say I was to combine this with delay death (prevents character from dying for some rounds, regardless of hitpoints). Is there any upper limit to the amount of caster levels that I can draw off? I'm considering drawing off infinite caster levels, to destroy, with no save or SR, all non-good enemies within 40ft with less than infinite - 10 HD.

Disclaimer - this spell could, if you wanted, kill (just about) anything - I thought of it when reading the Ikea Tarrasque thread. It is NOT intended for use in normal games .

[SpiderBrigade]

It would depend on the order of steps. If the damage is dealt before you cast the boosted spell, you would be in the "dying" state, and therefore unconscious and unable to take actions. Delay Death does not prevent this.

On the other hand if the boosted spell goes of first, and then you take the damage, you could get away with it. Of course then you would be knocked out and have some ridiculously negative HP total. Good luck healing that.

Now, if you have a way to stay active while in the negative HPs (and the damage happens after you cast)...there would seem to be an actual better combo to pull off: Delay death with an infinitely boosted caster level. Yes, you have taken 5*infinity damage...but you cannot be killed for infinity+your normal CL rounds. Just watch out for dispel magic...

[TheOOB]

Ahh, what I wouldn't do for 3.0 Heal again.

[Bears With Lasers]

There are plenty of ways, including spells, to keep yourself conscious at < 0 HP.

[Illiterate Scribe]

I suppose that by drowning, your HP is reset to -1 is out of the question, as that would just make this a higher level omnisificer.

I can keep myself awake merely using a DC30 Autohypnosis check.

EDIT: Simu'ed by the Bears!

[Belial_the_Leveler]

There's also a second minor problem: If you're dealt damage during the casting of a spell, you must make a concentration check or lose the spell

[SpiderBrigade]

There's also a second minor problem: If you're dealt damage during the casting of a spell, you must make a concentration check or lose the spell

That would be a problem, yes. Again, it really depends on whether the damage happens before, during, or after the spell/check/etc. Even if it would happen as you're casting, there's likely a way around it.

Ahh, what I wouldn't do for 3.0 Heal again.

You don't need it Remember you're still an epic-level cleric (presumably, anyway, as Delay Death is a cleric spell.) So just make yourself an epic spell with the Heal seed to instantly cure ALL HP DAMAGE. Base DC 25 woo woo.

Of course it goes without saying that, even if you deal with the concentration check problem, you can probably get the same effects as this trick with epic spells anyway. But this tactic has a certain elegance which IMO the usual "create arbitrarily large army of spellcasting outsider assistants" epic research technique lacks.

[Emperor Tippy]

You combine thiw with epic casting. Create a spell that has an effect based on caster level. Like 1 GP crated per caster level. Now get a CL of 100 million and cast the spell.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

That's why epic classes need balancing. WotC did a poor job with them.

[Lapak]

That's why epic classes need balancing. WotC did a poor job with them.

I'm not sure I can blame WotC for this; epic play inherently involves characters and creatures with godlike abilities. I've yet to see a set of rules in any system that gives an Epic D&D level of power while remaining anything along the lines of balance.

[Jothki]

What about multiclassing with Frenzied Berserker? Can you still use that ability while in a rage?

[Illiterate Scribe]

I don't know - if you had that Exalted Rage feat, I assume you could.

So, our theoretical character would have to be (full caster, probably Archivist to snag timestop and some other nifty spells) 20 / Wizard 1 (if my understanding of the alternative source metamagic is right, I can prepare Wizard spells in my Archivist slots; I also need another level to get epic energy resistance) / Cosmic Descryer 7 (to get cosmic connection).

I now have infinite caster levels, using the above trick. While just about no-one can dispel my Delay Death spell, etc, I'm still vulnerable to MDJs, and antimagic fields (being an archivist, I can't get Initiate of Mystra - worth the sacrifice?).

But what nifty stuff can I do?

- Holy Word anything into SR-less, save-less death
- Create an infinite amount of permanent stuff with Major Creation
- Gate in every outsider in existence (total HD<infinite caster level)

Any other ideas?

[Fax Celestis]

Cast any spell with a duration measured in units per caster level and have it effect you for the rest of all time.

[Illiterate Scribe]

Cast any spell with a duration measured in units per caster level and have it effect you for the rest of all time.

That, with Archivist / Wizard would be all of them . Thanks, Fax, forgot entirely about that. Shame that divine power only gives you your character level as BAB, though.

[Fax Celestis]

Man, I'm just envisioning a Cloud of Knives.

"I'm surrounded by an infinite number of flying daggers, which I can zing off at my opponents once per round. Oh, and I'll cast a Chained Greater Magic Weapon to make them all +5 weapons. FOR ETERNITY."

[SpiderBrigade]

Eee, those are sexy ideas, Fax.

We do still need to table the "taking damage while casting forces a Concentration check" issue, though.

[Rigeld2]

Eee, those are sexy ideas, Fax.

We do still need to table the "taking damage while casting forces a Concentration check" issue, though.

Who says it happens while youre casting the spell?
Cast Delay Death.
"I want +1,000,000 to my caster level."
-takes 5,000,000 damage-
-cast buff-
-cast uberepichealspell-

[Fax Celestis]

...isn't there a spell that lets you autosucceed on your next Concentration check? Or a martial maneuver or something?

[Illiterate Scribe]

"I want +1,000,000 to my caster level."
-takes 5,000,000 damage-
-cast buff-
-cast uberepichealspell-

Be reasonable - we want infinite caster levels, to create oceans of cheese that stretch to the end of creation and back. In fact, I think that might be possible.

[Rigeld2]

So... replace "1,000,000" with "infinite" and "5,000,000" with "infinite".

BTW, uberepichealspell needs to be quickened.

[SpiderBrigade]

Right, that's just it Rigeld, it doesn't say in the description when it happens. So it's a DM call...

Personally I find ubercheese tricks like this much more elegant when they don't hinge on someone reading an ambiguous rule the "right" way. It'd be nicer if, indeed, there was a way to autosucceed or bypass the concentration check. I can't think of one off the top of my head, though.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

There's a psionic power called Timeless Body that makes you immune to positive effects and negative effects for 1 round-including damage. Have your epic psionic buddy cast a Persistent Timeless Body on you. For 24 hours you're immune to EVERYTHING from meele attacks to Devoured by the Abyss. The 'everything' thingy includes Cosmic Descryer backlash damage.

Cheesemaster 1 - Balance 0


BTW, it is not impossible to balance meelers/casters in epic. It just needs a great deal of work to do it.

[martyboy74]

There's a psionic power called Timeless Body that makes you immune to positive effects and negative effects for 1 round-including damage. Have your epic psionic buddy cast a Persistent Timeless Body on you. For 24 hours you're immune to EVERYTHING from meele attacks to Devoured by the Abyss. The 'everything' thingy includes Cosmic Descryer backlash damage.

Cheesemaster 1 - Balance 0


BTW, it is not impossible to balance meelers/casters in epic. It just needs a great deal of work to do it.

Sorry, no Persistant Metapsionic feat. Even if it did work, you'd be immune to the caster level boost, making the thing useless.

[Illiterate Scribe]

I've always considered this to work, from epic feats:

'Translating epic metamagic feats to epic metapsionic feats requires that Spellcraft prerequisites be replaced with Psicraft. It also requires a little math—instead of casting a spell at a higher level, a psionic character pays more power points. For every spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level the metamagic feat requires, the metapsionic feat requires a character to pay a power point cost equal to its standard cost +2. Likewise, when a feat allows a spellcaster to “pay” one less level to use a metamagic feat, the psionic version allows a character to pay 2 power points less for a given metapsionic feat.'

But you're right - timeless body would block the massive CL increase.