Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 34
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xuldarinar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Post Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    BECOMING A DEMON: THE GUIDE (?)
    Do you want to become a demon? Who doesn't? Lets get started.

    Now, take this guide with a grain of salt. I don't claim to know everything and I do make mistakes periodically. If you see any mistakes made, any information omitted, then by all means please correct me. I'll go as deep as I reasonably can, and almost certainly will expand upon things periodically.

    The Ritual
    Knowledge of the ritual is obscure at best, hidden away in rare tombs and secrets kept by a wide range of demons. To begin on your journey, you must know about the journey itself and what it takes. There are three ways individuals generally learn about the ritual and how to preform it.

    • You have found a rare tome, such as the Book of the Damned, that possesses documentation regarding the ritual. Whether you are fortunate to stumble upon it, or you actively seek it out, that is left to chance. This can be done at any level with any. You might have even stumbled upon such a tome before 1st level.
    • You have a demon placed in your service who happens to know the ritual. All left to chance for antipaladins who choose the service of a fiend for their boon, those that may obtain familiars who take on a quasit for their familiar, or even others still. In any case, this demon might know about the ritual and just might be more than happy to teach you. For familiar classes, this can be done at the soonest at 7th level. For antipaladins, this opportunity opens up at 5th level and a new chance every time they select a different demon for their boon. Other classes, and archetypes of classes, may have similar opportunities as well.
    • You seek out the information yourself, not in tomes directly but for demons who know the ritual. Whether by chance in casting the right spells, or specifically summoning the right one, you may bargain with them for them to teach you the way. Must be able to cast Planar Ally (Cleric 11, Oracle 12, Witch [Spirits Patron] 16, Warpriest 16) or Planar Binding (Wizard 11, Sorcerer 12, Summoner 13, Witch [Dimensions Patron] 12), and bind a demon that knows of the transformation ritual. Keep in mind, you may be able to do this earlier by getting another spellcaster who is capable of using the proper spell, but it is certainly better if you can cast the spells yourself.



    The First Ritual
    Spoiler
    Show
    First Ritual: The first ritual is the easiest, and requires nothing more than for the user’s alignment to become chaotic evil. By undertaking acts of a vile and destructive nature, the mortal consigns her soul to the Abyss even if she never finishes the second and third rituals. The mortal must select a demon lord (or a nascent demon lord or Balor Lord) at this point to serve as a demonic patron. The acts the user must undertake can vary, but should be of a nature that represents and “honors” the areas of interest of her chosen demonic patron—these acts are intended to attract the patron’s attention, after all. Even mortals who begin the transformation ritual as already chaotic evil must undergo this stage of the ritual, if only to select a demonic patron. In total, the first ritual must progress in this manner for a minimum of one year—at the end of the ritual, the mortal’s alignment changes to chaotic evil.
    Yep. Once you know of the ritual, you need to be chaotic evil and pick a demon lord, a nascent demon lord, or a balor lord. This will be relevant later on, effecting your conduct on your path to demonhood, as well as having some impact on what type of demon you can become. Worship an incredibly powerful demon for a year, and even if you weren't chaotic evil before, by the end of the year you are chaotic evil. If you need help deciding who to serve, or want even just a list of options, have a look at this, and scroll down to the demon lords.


    The Second Ritual
    Spoiler
    Show
    Second Ritual: The second ritual requires many more months of debased acts and vile plots, but at some point during this second year, the mortal must contact her chosen demonic patron, via either commune or contact other plane. A trusted minion or ally can cast this spell on the mortal’s behalf—it’s common for a spellcaster to gain a quasit familiar so that the quasit can use its commune spell-like ability for this purpose. Once contact is made, the demonic patron must be told of the mortal’s desire to become a demon—the commune or contact other plane spell cannot be used to ask any other questions. At some point thereafter, but before a year has passed, the mortal must offer a significant sacrifice to her demonic patron as a burnt offering in a temple consecrated to the demon lord. This offering can be either living or dead—in either case, the burnt offerings must be of someone that is related to the mortal by blood or family—an adopted parent or child is sufficient if, at some point the mortal and the offering once loved each other. The mortal must make a DC 20 Knowledge (religion) check to properly perform the burnt offering—if the sacrifice is or was once a worshiper of a lawful or good deity, the check drops to DC 10 (and thus becomes something that even one not trained in the Knowledge skill can attempt). If this check is successful, the second ritual ends and the mortal gains a demonic implant (typically demon senses or a demon talon) as proof of her demon’s favor.
    Now some spells and knowledge will be put to the test, and you get to cook up a member of your family. If you have never loved anyone and don't know who your family is, then you are out of luck. If your family is dead, get a shovel. In any case, you have a time limit from the time you have the spell cast, but a year shouldn't be a problem to get this done within. As a reward, you get one of these, and can move onto the third step.

    Classes that have knowledge (religion) as a class skill and/or tend to have high intelligence scores will naturally have an easier time making the check from this. Skill Focus (Knowledge [Religion]) will help out, now and for later stages, a great deal. They aren't required, but it will save time and hassle. If the family member you use as an offering was once a worshipper of a lawful or good deity, you may never have to put any skill points into knowledge (religion) to complete your journey.


    The Third Ritual
    Spoiler
    Show
    Third Ritual: At some point after the mortal contacts her demon lord (typically after the second ritual succeeds, but sometimes before), the demon sends the mortal a vision of a task that must be completed (such as freeing a bound evil outsider from a Material Plane prison or assassinating a powerful cleric of a good religion). This task is typically one of significance to the demon lord, and in many cases one that the mortal has no hope of completing until she grows more powerful. There is no time limit for how long the mortal has to complete this task, but she must maintain her weekly devotions to her demon in the time that passes in the form of regular worship and continued atrocities in the demon’s name. Additional burnt offerings to the demon, betrayals of allies, and assaults on innocents are popular choices. Once the assigned task is completed, the mortal must perform another ritual in honor of her demonic lord—a sacrifice consisting of no less than a dozen nonevil intelligent creatures offered in the course of no more than a single week. The mortal must make a DC 30 Knowledge (religion) check at the end of the sacrifice, but gains a +1 bonus on the check for every 5 additional sacrifices offered beyond the initial dozen. If the check succeeds, the third ritual ends and the mortal permanently gains the half-fiend template.
    Now we get serious. You have a quest to complete, so go do it. You don't have a hard time limit, but as soon as it is in your capability to complete it should be dealt with. Then, you have a another sacrifice to make and with it a knowledge check. If you first don't succeed, try try again. Even if you have no ranks in knowledge (religion), if not before then certainly by the time you've sacrificed upwards of 300 people over the course of this stage you'll get it. While I do recommend you do what you can to increase your skill checks in regards to knowledge (religion), there are advantages to completing the last stage of the ritual later rather than sooner. I advise that you put one of your +4 bonuses from becoming a half-fiend into Int. It won't matter after you become a demon, if you decide to carry this out to the bitter end, but it will help you get there.


    The Fourth Ritual
    Spoiler
    Show
    Fourth Ritual: For many, gaining the half-fiend template is enough, but for those who wish to go even further, a fourth ritual exists. The mortal’s demon lord grants no vision or advice to begin this ritual—the mortal must take it upon herself to honor her demon lord in a manner appropriate to that demon lord’s interests and areas of concern. Once every year, on the anniversary of the day the mortal completed the third ritual, she must perform a special ceremony that recounts her accomplishments over the past year and culminates in a significant sacrifice (usually consisting of the sacrifice of an important member of an enemy faith, or of a lawful or good outsider; in either case, the sacrifice must be at least CR 9). The mortal then makes a DC 40 Knowledge (religion) check, with a cumulative +1 bonus for each previous such ritual she’s performed over the past several years. Success results in a final transformation into a full-fledged demon—the mortal loses all benefits of her previous race or the half-fiend template, but can immediately apply all of her class levels to her new demonic race (for example, a human fighter 10 could become a vrock fighter 10). The type of demon that the mortal transforms into depends on both the nature of her chosen demon lord and the GM’s discretion, but should generally not result in a total number of Hit Dice that more than doubles the mortal’s original Hit Dice.
    Congratulations for making it this far. To complete your transformation, you gotta wait a year and then make an appropriate sacrifice. If you preform it well enough, you can leave mortality behind. If not, there is always next year.

    Now, exactly how this functions is based on your reading of it, post ritual of course. My reading goes as follows.

    Drop your racial traits and the benefits of the half-fiend template and then add pretty much everything the demon has short of equipment to you. However, you can interpret it such that you drop one and keep the other. If you follow this path, keep in mind if you maintain your racial traits, you should treat any discrepancies (such as type) to take after the Demon you become. For example; An elven balor would most likely be Large Outsider (Chaotic, Demon, Elf, Evil, Extraplanar). Your ability scores will receive bonuses based on the demon type (-10 to all even ability scores, -11 to all odd ability scores. Add these as bonuses to what your ability scores are after you take off your former race's traits and the template.)


    The Demons

    Now, the important question is, after all that work what demon do you become? Well, it does hinge on a few things. Your HD upon the completion of the fourth ritual, the demon you serve, and potentially the things you have done along the way. To make things easier, here is a table containing all the demons I could find, organized by HD, along with the modifiers they would offer. Remember, you cannot become a type of demon that would more than double your HD by becoming one. In essence, you generally cannot become a demon that has more HD than you do at the completion of the fourth ritual.

    Do take this list with a grain of salt, as some entries may be absent (especially with the addition of new demons and existence of 3rd party content.)

    Spoiler: Here there be demons
    Show

    HD Type of Demon Ability Score Modifiers
    2 Dretch +2 Str, +2 Con, -6 Int
    3 Quasit -2 Str, +4 Dex, +2 Wis
    4 Vermlek +4 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha
    5 Abrikandilu +4 Str, +2 Con, -4 Int, +2 Cha
    5 Hala +6 Str, +8 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Int, +4 Cha
    5 Schir +6 Str, +4 Dex, +4 Con, -2 Int, -6 Wis, -4 Cha
    5 Swaithe +6 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Int, +2 Cha
    6 Brimorak +6 Str, +6 Dex, +8 Con, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +4 Cha
    7 Babau +10 Str, +2 Dex, +10 Con, +4 Int, +2 Wis, +6 Cha
    7 Shadow Str -, +8 Dex, +6 Con, +4 Int, +4 Wis, +8 Cha
    8 Incubus +10 Str, +4 Dex, +8 Con, +6 Int, +4 Wis, +10 Cha
    8 Succubus +2 Str, +6 Dex, +10 Con, +8 Int, +4 Wis, +16 Cha
    9 Nabasu +12 Str, +6 Dex, +12 Con, +4 Int, +6 Wis, +8 Cha
    9 Vrock +10 Str, +4 Dex, +14 Con, +4 Int, +6 Wis, +6 Cha
    10 Hezrou +16 Str, +18 Con, +4 Int, +4 Wis, +8 Cha
    10 Kalavakus +12 Str, +2 Dex, +14 Con, +4 Int, +6 Wis, +6 Cha
    11 Derakni +16 Str, +12 Dex, +12 Con, -2 Int, +6 Wis, +6 Cha
    11 Gibrileth +14 Str, +8 Dex, +14 Con, +2 Int, +6 Wis, +6 Cha
    11 Kithangian +12 Str, +10 Con, -4 Int, +8 Wis, +6 Cha
    11 Shachath +14 Str, +14 Dex, +16 Con, +8 Int, +10 Wis, +10 Cha
    11 Xenarth +18 Str, +4 Dex, +16 Con, -4 Int, -4 Cha
    12 Glabrezu +20 Str, +20 Con, +6 Int, +6 Wis, +10 Cha
    12 Omox +16 Str, +14 Dex, +14 Con, +4 Int, +8 Wis, +8 Cha
    14 Nalfeshnee +22 Str, +2 Dex, +18 Con, +12 Int, +12 Wis, +10 Cha
    14 Oolioddroo +4 Str, +14 Dex, +14 Con, +10 Int, +14 Wis, +12 Cha
    14 Painajai +16 Str, +6 Dex, +18 Con, +8 Int, +8 Wis, +8 Cha
    15 Seraptis +12 Str, +12 Dex, +18 Con, +6 Int, +8 Wis, +10 Cha
    16 Coloxus +8 Str, +18 Dex, +10 Con, +6 Int, +8 Wis, +12 Cha
    16 Marilith +14 Str, +8 Dex, +22 Con, +8 Int, +8 Wis, +14 Cha
    17 Lilitu +16 Str, +10 Dex, +20 Con, +10 Int, +12 Wis, +16 Cha
    17 Shemhazian +24 Str, +8 Dex, +18 Con, +16 Wis, +6 Cha
    18 Vavakia +22 Str, +4 Dex, +22 Con, +8 Int, +10 Wis, +12 Cha
    18 Vilsteth +12 Str, +8 Dex, +14 Con, +12 Int, +6 Wis, +12 Cha
    19 Gallu (Warmonger) +22 Str, +8 Dex, +24 Con, +8 Int, +12 Wis, +14 Cha
    19 Vrolikai +20 Str, +12 Dex, +24 Con, +12 Int, +12 Wis, +16 Cha
    20 Balor +24 Str, +14 Dex, +26 Con, +14 Int, +14 Wis, +16 Cha



    The Price of Power
    The higher level you are, the greater your options are when it comes to demons. One could argue you should go for the most powerful demon available to you. After all, you have the most to benefit in the moment, but this comes with its own drawbacks. For one, you are effectively spontaneously gaining anywhere from 2 to 20 levels, and although in each set the benefits are fixed, still the more levels you gain the more powerful than the rest of the group you may become. Furthermore your advancement will slowed down. For classes and characters that don't depend upon the advancement of particular abilities have the most to gain. They won't fall behind in that area as easily, and their might is easily added to your own. For spellcasters, those that have the easiest time becoming demons, they will find that their slowed advancement for being several levels ahead may cripple them in the long run, pending upon how much longer the campaign continues. There is nothing wrong with seeking to become a balor or the 3rd party choronzon, but don't forget there are benefits even for becoming the lowly quasit.

    But don't become a dretch. Nobody likes dretches.

    Classes that Shouldn't
    Unfortunately, becoming a demon is not for everyone. There are some classes that should be addressed when considering undertaking the process.

    Druid: While against the natural order of things, druids are among the more common groups that have contention with demons to worship demons or even consider becoming them. Regretfully, given the nature of the process you will be an ex-druid for some time if you go down this path. If after you manage to balance yourself between law and chaos, or good and evil, you may then return to being a druid.
    Monk: Most monks require discipline to continue advancing through their training. So unless you are simply a martial artist, keep in mind the fact that once you start down the road to demon-hood, your training will have to be put on hold indefinitely. Fortunately, you retain your abilities.
    Paladin: Paladins are directly opposed to demon-kind. If you want to become one, you must stop being a paladin. I advise considering becoming an anti-paladin, so at least your training doesn't go to waste. If you intend to return to being a paladin afterwards, or wish you could retain your paladin abilities while you follow this path, this is not the guide for you. The road to damnation is swift, and the road to redemption once there can be impossibly steep.
    Last edited by Xuldarinar; 2016-06-28 at 06:29 PM.
    Extended Signature

    Guide to becoming a demon in Pathfinder

    Special thanks to Gurgleflep for creating my Avatar

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Gnome Alone's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Cat Food Island
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Someone needs to make this into a pamphlet and send it to Jack Chick. Bonus points if you say someone was handing it out outside of a middle school.
    Avatar by the one and only Ceika.
    "I'll be whatever I wanna do." - Philip J. Fry
    my fake wizard|my fake one-shot|my fake link

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xuldarinar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnome Alone View Post
    Someone needs to make this into a pamphlet and send it to Jack Chick. Bonus points if you say someone was handing it out outside of a middle school.
    Certainly not the response I was expecting, but I would be lying if I said I didn't love the idea.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Jorgenfist
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    It might be interesting to include some analysis of which demons are the most promising if one is going to become one early game, mid-game, or late-game, I suppose. Maybe including which ones give the best feats if one is required to take the feats in the entry for the particular kind of demon?

    Also some discussion of the ramifications of the RHD that one gains from becoming a Demon may also be in order.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
    Homebrew
    To Do: Reboot and finish Riptide

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xuldarinar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    It might be interesting to include some analysis of which demons are the most promising if one is going to become one early game, mid-game, or late-game, I suppose. Maybe including which ones give the best feats if one is required to take the feats in the entry for the particular kind of demon?

    Also some discussion of the ramifications of the RHD that one gains from becoming a Demon may also be in order.
    Certainly. I'll address these things within the next day or so.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Raven777's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Dominion of Canadia

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuldarinar View Post
    As a reward, you get one of these, and can move onto the third step.
    These things are positively awesome. And slotless. And awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanos View Post
    The professionally offended will always find something to be angry about.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2014

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    I feel like the rituals are pretty breakable, to be honest. A tenth level character becoming a powerful demon with twenty hit dice and a massive LA on top?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    There's a reason why we bap your nose, not crucify you, for thread necromancy.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xuldarinar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Update: I've added an ability scores column to the table.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven777 View Post
    These things are positively awesome. And slotless. And awesome.
    Oh I agree. If someone wants to, they could just do the first two parts of the ritual and take advantage of the item they get.

    Quote Originally Posted by atemu1234 View Post
    I feel like the rituals are pretty breakable, to be honest. A tenth level character becoming a powerful demon with twenty hit dice and a massive LA on top?
    They can be but keep in mind that you have to wait large gaps of time throughout the ritual to complete it. Even in the most optimal of situations, you are going to need to work for four years in order to become a demon. If you goof up on the last stage, then it will be at least another year added before you reach your goal. That is to say nothing of the quest you are sent on part way through and the fact you have to actually learn the ritual before starting all of that, which knowledge of is fairly rare.

    LA?

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2011

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuldarinar View Post
    Oh I agree. If someone wants to, they could just do the first two parts of the ritual and take advantage of the item they get.
    They are quite nice; I see the Splintered Mind and Wicked Wings as probably being the best.
    On creating medieval thermobaric detonations:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    *strokes chin*
    Hmmm, I like the way you think.
    On rewriting your own past into a stable time loop of invulnerability:
    Quote Originally Posted by rockdeworld View Post
    Kardar233's Illithid:
    *strokes chin*
    Hmmm, I like the way you think.
    Quote Originally Posted by rockdeworld View Post
    kardar233's Tyr: So ok, it seems to me that your character evades death o_O. Congratulations *fanfare*

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PirateWench

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    I always thought the easiest way to become a demon was Planar Binding + True Mind Switch.

    Okay, you don't get all the cool abilities, but you get enough along with some hefty physical stat boosts (assuming you're the kind of scrawny wizard and/or psion who would be able to use Planar Binding and/or True Mind Switch).

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Raven777's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Dominion of Canadia

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuldarinar View Post
    LA?
    Level adjustment. Making monstrous races or templates impose a further handicap on your Effective Character Level than just their HD´s worth. No worries. No such thing in PF.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanos View Post
    The professionally offended will always find something to be angry about.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xuldarinar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMoon6 View Post
    I always thought the easiest way to become a demon was Planar Binding + True Mind Switch.

    Okay, you don't get all the cool abilities, but you get enough along with some hefty physical stat boosts (assuming you're the kind of scrawny wizard and/or psion who would be able to use Planar Binding and/or True Mind Switch).
    Granted, but this is potentially obtainable at lower levels and with this process you actually become a demon rather than taking over the body as you described, or using transmutation spells that can be dispelled.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven777 View Post
    Level adjustment. Making monstrous races or templates impose a further handicap on your Effective Character Level than just their HD´s worth. No worries. No such thing in PF.
    Im aware of what LA is. Something I wasn't really fond of in 3.5. I was questioning more on the terms of the fact it really does not apply here. Of course if there is something else in pathfinder that could be called LA then there is that, but I know of no such thing.
    Last edited by Xuldarinar; 2014-10-09 at 11:57 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Jorgenfist
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven777 View Post
    Level adjustment. Making monstrous races or templates impose a further handicap on your Effective Character Level than just their HD´s worth. No worries. No such thing in PF.
    The CR is used in some way though, isn't it?

    It is one of those things where if one party member is becoming a demon, they pretty much all have to do something or it gets pretty unbalanced, no? Unless you had like, one Fighter with a bunch of Clerics and Wizards or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
    Homebrew
    To Do: Reboot and finish Riptide

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    May 2014

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonMoon6 View Post
    I always thought the easiest way to become a demon was Planar Binding + True Mind Switch.

    Okay, you don't get all the cool abilities, but you get enough along with some hefty physical stat boosts (assuming you're the kind of scrawny wizard and/or psion who would be able to use Planar Binding and/or True Mind Switch).
    I used to think this and there's no explicit rule against it, but when you think deeply about the fact that Outsiders have a unitary soul/body you realize that strongly implies that you can't separate or switch the mind/soul out of an Outsider.

    Are there any examples of an Outsider using Magic Jar except for incorporeal variations like the Shadow Demon? They really shouldn't be able to, if I'm right.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xuldarinar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Slithery D View Post
    I used to think this and there's no explicit rule against it, but when you think deeply about the fact that Outsiders have a unitary soul/body you realize that strongly implies that you can't separate or switch the mind/soul out of an Outsider.

    Are there any examples of an Outsider using Magic Jar except for incorporeal variations like the Shadow Demon? They really shouldn't be able to, if I'm right.

    I think you are right. Im glad you brought that up. Given that outsiders (except for native outsiders) lack a duality then they shouldn't be able to do such a thing. Call it an implied rule I suppose.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Raven777's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Dominion of Canadia

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    The CR is used in some way though, isn't it?
    This is a source of contention.

    Fundamentally, monstrous races and templates are not balanced around PC use. The first official advice given was to allow each player to take a creature of the same CR (which may include templates), then apply additional class levels. There is also a guideline to use CR as LA in a mixed party, yes, with up to half of it gradually bought off every 3rd level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanos View Post
    The professionally offended will always find something to be angry about.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xuldarinar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Digging this guide up because I want to update the list of demons (im sure that some have been added since I wrote this), and I want to hear people's thoughts.

    What would you do with this?

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    I am just going to leave this here...

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xuldarinar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Thank you for sharing that. Im aware of that paladin and one could certainly go the way of that, unlikely as it is. Of course, given the guide, it is more likely one being a paladin who feels compelled to go down this path, rather than one deciding to become a demon and in turn decides to go back to being a good person.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Raven777's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Dominion of Canadia

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Any tips on how you can get any of that to fly past the average DM / good-neutral-ish group? Any tips on fitting the better part of the journey within the confines of Paizo's adventure paths?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanos View Post
    The professionally offended will always find something to be angry about.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2016

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuldarinar View Post
    Digging this guide up because I want to update the list of demons (im sure that some have been added since I wrote this), and I want to hear people's thoughts.

    What would you do with this?
    Just something I noticed when you become a demon you only remove your race OR your template and in demons revisited they added half demon variant half fiend templates

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xuldarinar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Modi5150 View Post
    Just something I noticed when you become a demon you only remove your race OR your template and in demons revisited they added half demon variant half fiend templates


    My god... you are right. I have to re-write part of the guide.


    This is hilarious.


    Edit: The text right after the mention of Or does clarify that one adds their class levels to their demon type. That being said I put some text acknowledging it and suggested a route for handling one who retains their race and becomes a demon. Template would simply be moved to apply to the type of demon you are.
    Last edited by Xuldarinar; 2016-06-28 at 06:31 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xuldarinar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Good news everyone!



    I am digging this guide up to make an important note, though I've no plans of revising this guide:
    This guide, save for making notes of demons, works now for becoming ANY kind of fiend. Thank you Book of the Damned!

    That said, the rituals detailed within do follow Ritual rules and are a little more volatile.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Daemon

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    I'm assuming this is Homebrew? It looks really cool it's just hard to get homebrew allowed in games.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Baratheon View Post
    Also, you have just been promoted to chief royal architect in the playground. I have absolutely no authority to give that title, but it's yours nonetheless!

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Jorgenfist
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistaroc View Post
    I'm assuming this is Homebrew? It looks really cool it's just hard to get homebrew allowed in games.
    Nope, not homebrew.

    Still pretty difficult to get allowed in a game that wasn't already dealing with that sorta thing.

    Certainly a potentially interesting addition for any group playing Way of the Wicked, though.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2017-10-17 at 04:10 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
    Homebrew
    To Do: Reboot and finish Riptide

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Daemon

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Nope, not homebrew.

    Still pretty difficult to get allowed in a game that wasn't already dealing with that sorta thing.

    Certainly a potentially interesting addition for any group playing Way of the Wicked, though.
    Wow really? What's the source? I might actually be able to use this!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Baratheon View Post
    Also, you have just been promoted to chief royal architect in the playground. I have absolutely no authority to give that title, but it's yours nonetheless!

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Jorgenfist
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistaroc View Post
    Wow really? What's the source? I might actually be able to use this!
    Book of the Damned Volume II: Lords of Chaos

    Published back in December of 2010, it seems.

    The sourcebook named just Book of the Damned that came out in September of this year is supposed to be what modified those rules to apply to all varieties of fiend, if I interpreted Xuldarinar's post correctly.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2017-10-17 at 06:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    +3 Girlfriend is totally unoptimized. You are better off with a +1 Keen Witty girlfriend and then appling Greater Magic Make-up to increase her enhancement bonus.
    Homebrew
    To Do: Reboot and finish Riptide

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xuldarinar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Book of the Damned Volume II: Lords of Chaos

    Published back in December of 2010, it seems.

    The sourcebook named just Book of the Damned that came out in September of this year is supposed to be what modified those rules to apply to all varieties of fiend, if I interpreted Xuldinar's post correctly.
    That you have. You are correct.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Jaraguá of South
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    I'm playing Way of The Wicked for some years and my character os going to do all the rituals from the Book of Damned (minus the final one) at the same time our necromancer Wil be doing gera Eternal Apotheosis.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DwarfBarbarianGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    the Netherlands
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Becoming a Demon: The Guide (?)

    Step 1: Worship a demon lord.
    Step 2: Sacrifice yourself to the demon lord.
    Step 3: Advance from a petitioner to (part of) a powerful demon.

    See! You're making it hard on yourself. There's no reason why it should take that much time and effort to become a demon.

    Another option would be to summon a quasit as your familiar. Essentially, you're bringing a little piece from the abyss to life by enfusing it with a part of your soul. Ofcourse the quasit claims your soul when you die, but at least part of you is now a demon.

    Edit: Wait, this is actually pretty good. It sounds like a good plot for a villain...
    Last edited by the_david; 2017-10-18 at 04:03 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •