Gestalt Sorcerer/Dragonfire Adept: Spells?

[ZekeArgo]

Currently working on a character for a 12th level gestalt game and decided to do something other than my normal wizard/druid staples. So i went with a Dragonfire Adept 12//Sorcerer 5/Sand Shaper 7.

Current spells and invocations look like this. Any input/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. (Note: all spell slots are completly listed, current shown are the bonus spells from Sand Shaper)

LEVEL 0

LEVEL 1
Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Endure Elements, Parching
Touch, Speak with Animals, Summon Desert Ally I,

LEVEL 2
Eagle's Splendor, Fox's Cunning, Heat Metal, Owl's Wisdom, Resist Energy,
Summon Desert Ally II, Summon Swarm

LEVEL 3
Control Sand, Desiccate, Dispel Magic, Dominate Animal, Haboob, Slipsand,
Summon Desert Ally III, Sunstroke, Tormenting Thirst, Windwall

LEVEL 4
Blast of Sand, Summon Desert Ally IV, Wall of Sand, Wither

LEVEL 5
Choking Sands, Flaywind Burst, Flesh to Salt, Summon Desert Ally V,
Transmute Sand to Stone, Transmute Stone to Sand

DRAGONFIRE ADEPT
CASTER LEVEL: 12
CONDITIONAL CASTER LEVEL MODIFIERS: +1

LEAST INVOCATIONS -
Enduring Exposure
See the Unseen

LESSER INVOCATIONS -
Draconic Flight
Humanoid Shape

GREATER INVOCATIONS -
Chilling Fog

[CASTLEMIKE]

Just letting you know there is already an Optimal Sorcerer thread which is currently residing back on page 5 of the boards currently which will probably help a lot with the build here.

[ZekeArgo]

Just letting you know there is already an Optimal Sorcerer thread which is currently residing back on page 5 of the boards currently which will probably help a lot with the build here.

True, was checking through them but a lot of the spell selections were based off of single-classes sorcs without other abilities. Was likewise curious about the adept invocation selection when sorcerer casting was also available.

[Bears With Lasers]

You will want ways to keep people trapped within your breath but unable to get to you. Webs, walls, etc. You can pick up Fly or Overland Flight and save yourself an invocation slot on Draconic Flight, but Draconic Flight IS better. Solid Fog + breath could be used much earlier than you get the fog invocation for the DFA.

You will also want to be Dragonborn so you can pick up Entangling Exhalation (RotD). Entangling Exhalation + Slow breath = they're not doing too much.

[ZekeArgo]

You will want ways to keep people trapped within your breath but unable to get to you. Webs, walls, etc. You can pick up Fly or Overland Flight and save yourself an invocation slot on Draconic Flight, but Draconic Flight IS better. Solid Fog + breath could be used much earlier than you get the fog invocation for the DFA.

You will also want to be Dragonborn so you can pick up Entangling Exhalation (RotD). Entangling Exhalation + Slow breath = they're not doing too much.

True, was definatly thinking a battlefield controller type. As for when solid fog invocation as I said, starting at 12th level so no problem there, doubly so since not too many of the greater invocations seem that great.

Since being dragonborn is a class feature of Dragonfire Adept (check Dragontouched) no problem picking up entangling exhalation, and current breath effects chosen are Lightning, Slow, Cloud and Enduring, so I shouldn't have any problems with mid-range control.

My guess from there would be focus on empower and quicken (having grabbed the PHB2 sorc variant) and a little vague as to what else to pickup

Seeing the character along the lines to a mid-long range combatant, espionage and generalist. Will have to lookup some more along those lines.

Also an edit: the character is going to be in what appears to be an undead-heavy campaign, so rebuking breath will also be very viable.

[Bears With Lasers]

I meant Dragonborn as in the race--you can't normally pick up Entangling Exhalation because your breath weapon doesn't have a recharge time expressed in rounds; Dragonborn can get you that.

Flyby Attack as a feat is pretty invaluable for dragonfire adepts, especially if you increase your speed (expeditious retreat/haste, Air Heritage, etc).

You'll want some AoE damage to pummel slow-entangled-and-in-fog enemies with; spells do more than your breath.

Quicken is definitely a must.

Pick up various breath-changing spells: Stunning Breath, etc.

Edit: once you get seventh-level spells, Arcane Spellsurge (from Dragon Magic) will be EXACTLY the thing you need.

[ZekeArgo]

I meant Dragonborn as in the race--you can't normally pick up Entangling Exhalation because your breath weapon doesn't have a recharge time expressed in rounds; Dragonborn can get you that.

Flyby Attack as a feat is pretty invaluable for dragonfire adepts, especially if you increase your speed (expeditious retreat/haste, Air Heritage, etc).

You'll want some AoE damage to pummel slow-entangled-and-in-fog enemies with; spells do more than your breath.

Quicken is definitely a must.

Pick up various breath-changing spells: Stunning Breath, etc.

Edit: once you get seventh-level spells, Arcane Spellsurge (from Dragon Magic) will be EXACTLY the thing you need.

Hmm, odd. I would expect the requirement for a breath weapon expressed in rounds would be listed in the entry somewhere. Hell unlike the draconomicon feats the ones in Races of the Dragon don't even list increasing the time between breaths. And errata to the feats I'm guessing?

For damage guessing the old standby empowered fireball will do the trick decently.

Also havent checked out spellsurge, but as a sorc already having lost a caster level I probally wont see 7th level spells for a little bit.

[Bears With Lasers]

Entangling Exhalation is a metabreath feat. All metabreath feat have that pesky rounds requirement.

Fireball's a weak damage spell, Empowered or not. Something like Ball Lightning (SpC) would be much handier.

[Ramza00]

While I don't know if it something to use your valuable spell known on, but perhaps some scrolls, knowstone, or runestaves. There are some spells in the spell compendium that modify your breath weapon. I don't remember how good they were, but there was energy substitution breath weapon and energy admixture. Stun breath sounds great.

What books?

[Ramza00]

Rings of Flurry from Races of the Dragon will probably be better than fireball. Or you can go the conjuration spell route.

[ZekeArgo]

Entangling Exhalation is a metabreath feat. All metabreath feat have that pesky rounds requirement.

Fireball's a weak damage spell, Empowered or not. Something like Ball Lightning (SpC) would be much handier.

Is that a cust-serve change? Because the entangling exhalation I'm looking at (RoD) is listed as a Breath Channeling feat and as the [Breath] discriptor, rather than the [Metabreath] discriptor as seen in the Draconomicon.

[Ramza00]

They are different effects and work differenetly, metabreath feats and breath channeling feats. Metabreaths are more powerful than the normal breath and thus have a delay when you can next use them. Breath channeling modifies your breath weapon, often weaking the damage but gives a nice additional effect.

[ZekeArgo]

They are different effects and work differenetly, metabreath feats and breath channeling feats. Metabreaths are more powerful than the normal breath and thus have a delay when you can next use them. Breath channeling modifies your breath weapon, often weaking the damage but gives a nice additional effect.

-_-

This I understand. However my question is what is the reasoning in needing more than the dragonblood sybtype since there is nothing in the Breath Channeling feat discription that states that the breath weapon to which it is applied must have a use expressed in rounds, as opposed to Metabreath feats which *do* say that.

[Ramza00]

-_-

This I understand. However my question is what is the reasoning in needing more than the dragonblood sybtype since there is nothing in the Breath Channeling feat discription that states that the breath weapon to which it is applied must have a use expressed in rounds, as opposed to Metabreath feats which *do* say that.

There is no such criteria, it works, BWL made a mistake (it happens he is mortal, but remember he isn't like normal mortals for he is a bear with laser eyes)

[Bears With Lasers]

Hunh. My, uh, bad, I guess!

...be right back. I need to fix a character I made. Went Dragonborn and got a second breath weapon just so I could take Entangling Exhalation...

[ZekeArgo]

Hunh. My, uh, bad, I guess!

...be right back. I need to fix a character I made. Went Dragonborn and got a second breath weapon just so I could take Entangling Exhalation...

Heh, glad to help with helping you out ^_^

[ZekeArgo]

And up for consideration: spell selections

1st: Ray of Clumsiness, Grease, Magic Missile, Disguise Self, Ray of Enfeeblement
2nd: Web, Command Undead, Mirror Image, Invisibility, Scorching Ray

3rd: Unluck, Ray of Exhaustion, Shadow Binding, Blinding Breath

4th: Rebuking Breath, Assay Spell Resistance, Evard's Black Tentacles

5th: Teleport, Ball Lightning

Notes on selection: since the game is centered around undead and eventually the
destruction of a lich, I thought it was prudent to take command undead/rebuking
breath in place of other more common spells.

Any critiques or suggestions?