jumping... can you while charging?

[Visturon]

the rules dont say no but they dont say yea.

so i need input as to whether or not a player can make a horizontal jump during a charge action or if they are limited to staying on the ground for their straight move.

if you know where in a book it says one way or the other or if you just have theories on the topic feel free to put them out there.

[Quietus]

I generally allow a player to make a jump as part of their charge movement, I see no reason why it shouldn't be possible. The only requirement be that their movement be in a straight line, and if their jump carries them in that straight line, go for it.

[Zincorium]

I would guess that if they were jumping to a higher or lower point but were still traveling in a straight line with no obstacles in the way, then yes. But if you run, jump, land on the same surface, then continue onward, you did not move in a straight line, no?

[Visturon]

if it were to move over rubble or some other terrain affecting ground that were on the same same elevation or lower and the landing were the same elevation as the start then is it not like an exaggerated step in the straight movement?

[Norsesmithy]

Not to mention that the Leap Attack feat gives you bonuses for jumping at least 10 feet in a charge.

[Cobra]

Yeah, I'd definitely go with being able to do horizontal jumps. Leap attack supports it, and I've seen some FAQ stuff on it iirc.

[Fascisticide]

As long as it's not to jump over obstacles, then yes you can do it.

Otherwise, it's a class ability of the thief acrobat to be able to make jumps and other such moves while charging

[Tweekinator]

I remember there being some feat that would allow you to make turns during a charge, but I forget what it's called. Other than that, you can't move any way other than a straight line during a charge.

Quoth the SRD, "Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. However, it carries tight restrictions on how you can move.

Movement During a Charge: You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.)"

[AtomicKitKat]

I remember there being some feat that would allow you to make turns during a charge, but I forget what it's called. Other than that, you can't move any way other than a straight line during a charge.

Nimble-footed or Fleet-footed, something like that.

It's part of Drunken Master, Swashbuckler, Thief Acrobat, as "Acrobatic Charge, Drunken Charge, etc." to be able to "Charge" through difficult terrain/in a non-straight line(essentially, you get the bonuses and penalties of a Charge, but without the restrictions that come with actually "Charging" as per the PHB)

[Justin_Bacon]

Quoth the SRD, "Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. However, it carries tight restrictions on how you can move.

Movement During a Charge: You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.)"

Given this definition, it's fairly clear that you can't jump for any meaningful purpose while completing a charge. If someone wants to fluff text their charge with various leaps, I don't see any problem with that -- but if those leaps are carrying them over spaces that would block or hinder movement, it disrupts the movement enough that they can't benefit from the charge.

There are various class abilities and feats specifically designed to overcome these limitations.

(This is actually an elegantly designed rule: It nicely takes care of jumping, climbing, swimming, and hampered terrain without ever needing to explicitly mention any of them. Flexible and uncomplicated.)

Justin Alexander
http://www.thealexandrian.net

[Tobrian]

I think there was something about this in one of the Sage Advice columns in DRAGON magazine? I could be wrong, but I clearly recall some rule that said you can jump as part of your charge, i.e. jumping across a chasm between you and your opponent*, as long as the total distance covered by movement + jump does not exceed the max distance allowed for your charge... so if you were allowed to, say, charge 60 feet, you could not charge 55 feet to the edge of the 12-feet wide chasm and then jump across it, because landing on the other side would mean you'd have travelled 67 feet in total. Of course it doesn't mean you stop and hang in the air midway or automatically fail the jump and fall in; the rule merely tries to stop players from exploiting jumping to gain a sudden increase in movement range during their turn, regardless of how far they might be able to jump otherwise.

*Otherwise no paladin would be able to charge on his horse anywhere, unless all dungeons and fields have conveniently flat floors like those caves in Star Trek episodes.

[the_tick_rules]

as long as the movement plus jump doesn't excced your movement why not. in complete warrior (or adventurer) the leap attack feat requires you to jump.

[Fixer]

I generally allow a leap at the END of the charge, but not in the middle.

Character with a move of 30.
Moves 20 feet then jumps 10 feet to attack an opponent at the end of the jump.

Heck, as a player I once stood on the back of my horse (very good Ride check), while the horse galloped at a beholder. The horse ended its movement within 5 feet of the beholder but 10 feet under it. I declared a charge and had my character jump up to hit the beholder with his scythe (Spirited Charge included). He rolled high enough to jump the vertical distance to hit and the 10 feet of movement up counted as the charge (to the DM, who didn't think I could do it in the first place).

A critical hit later my character was under a dead beholder screaming, "Get this thing off of me!"

[Visturon]

very helpful input from all

and i agree that if jumping were not allowed then charges would be practically useless because a DM could say "there are three gopher holes in one of the squares you need to pass through so you cant charge."

[Justin_Bacon]

and i agree that if jumping were not allowed then charges would be practically useless because a DM could say "there are three gopher holes in one of the squares you need to pass through so you cant charge."

That's a ridiculous argument. The DM could just as easily put an invisible wall if he's going to engage in such ridiculous behavior.

If your problem is being caused by a DM who's an *******, then changing the rules isn't going to fix it.

as long as the movement plus jump doesn't excced your movement why not. in complete warrior (or adventurer) the leap attack feat requires you to jump.

Yeah. But since that feat specifically lets you do this, it's only evidence that you normally CAN'T do it without the feat.

Justin Alexander
http://www.thealexandrian.net

[Norsesmithy]

No, the feat doesn't "let" you do so, it gives you a damage multiplier for doing so.

Just as you don't need diving charge to drop on someone, it just makes you better at it.

[Rigeld2]

Actually, it does let you.
The first sentence is, "You can combine a jump with a charge against an opponent." That would imply that you normally couldnt.

[daggaz]

As a DM i would have no problem with jumping, provided that forward momentum is preserved. This means no extremely high jumps for flat territory (like jumping a fence that is higher than your waist), no extremely long jumps (just think about how people tend to land when making a really long jump, aka olympics style), and no jumping up to higher ledges over perhaps waist height. Also, jumping far enough down, to where falling damage becomes a concern, wouldn't be allowed. All of these would kill forward momentum, ending a charge. Somebody mentioned a maneuver early, with a mount charging forward, and then ending with a jump straight up to hit a flying beholder... thats a change in direction and a (physically impossible) stop of forward momentum. I wouldn't allow it either. You could try a jump from a bit longer back tho, but of course hitting the height would make it harder..

Of course, failing any allowed jumps (jumping a short pit, a patch of grease, etc..) would end your charge. Any jumps with height that are barely made, I would also rule end your momentum, length would be ok here tho.. Rings of jumping and whatnot would extend your abilities, naturally.

[Renegade Paladin]

A critical hit later my character was under a dead beholder screaming, "Get this thing off of me!"

The beholder's body would keep floating.

[Fixer]

The beholder's body would keep floating.

Well, it was dead after the hit.

2d4+2 (specialized in the scythe), rolled max damage = 10
x5 for spirited charge critical hit with the scythe= 50 damage

The fifty damage didn't kill the beholder, though. It was the failed fort save versus massive damage. He would have been very dead if it hadn't worked. That was the luckiest character I had ever played.

[Morgan_Scott82]

Well, it was dead after the hit.

2d4+2 (specialized in the scythe), rolled max damage = 10
x5 for spirited charge critical hit with the scythe= 50 damage

The fifty damage didn't kill the beholder, though. It was the failed fort save versus massive damage. He would have been very dead if it hadn't worked. That was the luckiest character I had ever played.

FYI you multiplied wrong here. A crit on a spirited charge from a character specialized in the scythe would do 10d4+10, not (2d4+2)*5, greatly reducing the statistical odds of rolling 50 damage.

[Renegade Paladin]

Well, it was dead after the hit.

Irrelevant. A beholder's body is buoyant and doesn't stop being so after it dies; it would keep floating no matter how dead it was.

[Mewtarthio]

Irrelevant. A beholder's body is buoyant and doesn't stop being so after it dies; it would keep floating no matter how dead it was.

What if he cut it open and the lighter-than-air gasses just flew out? Like a balloon?

[Visturon]

As a DM i would have no problem with jumping, provided that forward momentum is preserved.

I have to agree, a charge does very specifically say no changes of direction so that would be out.

Actually, it does let you.
The first sentence is, "You can combine a jump with a charge against an opponent." That would imply that you normally couldnt.

i have no idea how you got that to mean that you usually cant jump in a charge. that would be the same as to assume a character cant usually have a high initiative because the Improved Initiative Feat says "You can react more quickly than normal in a fight."


and as interesting as beholder anatomy and physics is please start a new thread for that debate as this one already has a focus.

[SpiderBrigade]

What if he cut it open and the lighter-than-air gasses just flew out? Like a balloon?

I'm almost positive that beholders fly because they have antigravity blood. So it would still float

edit: sorry, visturon. i'm done, I promise.

[Diggorian]

You can make a long jump during a charge according to pg. 58 of the D&D 3.5 FAQ.

[Visturon]

thank you diggorian
you have been more help than anyone else by finding the actual wizards ruling on the matter.

i think that the link diggorian provides thoroughly answers my question

[Diggorian]

Thanx for the thanx. Alot of these kids just stop posting when ya answer a question or offer an opinion

[Visturon]

well i would say this thread is pretty dead....

[Quietus]

Should we go back to the Beholder discussion?