Multiclassing EXP Penalties

[I_Got_This_Name]

Do you use the 20% EXP penalty per class more than one level from your highest-level class in your games? If you don't, what benefit do you give for Favored Classes?

I generally prefer the system here when I DM, with some minor modifications; FC: Any gives a completely open choice of two classes.

[Fax Celestis]

It's too hard to adjucate, and messes up player balance. I don't use it.

[clericwithnogod]

I think they're pretty much useless. But, you start with removing the multiclassing penalty and the next thing you know you have critical misses and other foolishness...

[Krellen]

I've never had a player multiclass in a way where it ever came up (since PrCs don't impose it.)

[Lemur]

Every d20 setting I've seen except normal D&D doesn't have XP penalties for multiclassing. In any case, I've never really seen them come up, and I haven't devised too many builds that would invoke them in any case.

I think it's original intent was to create a system that would mimic 2nd ed's multiclassing system while still being open ended, but ultimately I think it's unnecessary for the purposes of the game. It doesn't matter to me whether it's in play or not, but I'd probably ignore it if I was DMing.

[El Jaspero, the Pirate King]

I'm in line with the general sentiment; I let people multiclass freely. If they want to cherry-pick a level or two early on, they'll pay for it later on when they're sitting on their hands with a bunch of crappy 1st level abilities while the rest of the party is getting their nifty mid- and high- level stuff.

[Selv]

An interesting twist on this rule is in Living campaigns, where you only get to keep playing your character to level 16 (or whatever), and a stable adventuring party is less common. An XP penalty can be a positive boon.

[Lord Tataraus]

I disregard the XP penalty, and no one really has a situation where it would come up anyway. I see the racial substitution levels as a reward for taking the favored class/classes

[Galathir]

The situation rarely comes up in our groups, but we never enforce the XP penalty. To me at least, it needlessly complicates the game, and might keep someone away from an interesting character concept.

[Tallis]

For the moment I use it while DMing, but I do think it's a bit harsh and will probably tone it down at some point (it's only been an issue once and that player is no longer in the game anyway). I'll probably end up expanding the level differential and lowering the xp penalty. Maybe 4 levels and 10%.
The gestalt idea is good, but not right for my game.

[AmoDman]

I've known so many people to just "accidentally" read over them. Lord knows I've neared it. However, every time I've approached a build where it might have been a problem, something happened to change to my build to where it wasn't anymore. I'd say they're generally useless, though I voted don't care since I haven't really utilized the XP penalty rules yet...

[LotharBot]

I generally ignore it. The only reason I'd enforce it is if someone busted out some kind of 6-class monstrosity.

Even then... once they get to be a level behind the party, they earn experience faster, so it ends up evening out into a "you're one level behind" penalty.

[Morgan_Scott82]

In my opinion the XP penalty and favored class system are a holdover from 2nd Edition when certain races could only play certain classes, and were limited about what level they could advance to in most classes. Using the Favored class system encourages people to stick to the archetypes that the 2nd ed designers thought should define D&D. I say NUTS to that!

Why should I allow designers from an edition of the game dictate how things work in my game world for my characters, therefore I've never played with the XP penalty / favored class system as written.

I either throw it out entirely or rather make favored class linked to region of origin, if you grew up in a seedy metropolis you would have a propensity toward the rogue class, etc.

[Piccamo]

I disregard the Favored Class and play with Fractional Attack Bonus / Saves.

[lumberofdabeast]

I don't bother, because I enforce a hard cap of no more than three different classes. Period.

[Lord_Kimboat]

I think that the penalty is actually there for a reason - it helps give an advantage to the 'oh so unfortunate' half-elf, although it also makes Humans a little more uber. It's funny that none of the other d20 franchises ever picked this up though - T20 Traveller, Star Wars and d20 Modern all go without it.

A few things I tend to enforce though by way of class restrictions is that people can't mulitclass into barbarians or sorcerers. You have to start at lvl 1 in these classes - something just strikes me as odd about someone saying one day, "okay, I'm going to take my civilized paladin and he's going to start eating with his fingers, not washing and basically living like a barbarian for no reason other than I want to run faster."

For the same reason, sorcery is something that is supposed to just develop in people when they hit puberty. You don't just wake up one morning and start thinking, 'I'm going to start focussing my inner power.'

[Piccamo]

I think that the penalty is actually there for a reason - it helps give an advantage to the 'oh so unfortunate' half-elf, although it also makes Humans a little more uber. It's funny that none of the other d20 franchises ever picked this up though - T20 Traveller, Star Wars and d20 Modern all go without it.

A few things I tend to enforce though by way of class restrictions is that people can't mulitclass into barbarians or sorcerers. You have to start at lvl 1 in these classes - something just strikes me as odd about someone saying one day, "okay, I'm going to take my civilized paladin and he's going to start eating with his fingers, not washing and basically living like a barbarian for no reason other than I want to run faster."

For the same reason, sorcery is something that is supposed to just develop in people when they hit puberty. You don't just wake up one morning and start thinking, 'I'm going to start focussing my inner power.'

Mr. Paladin has been adventuring in savage lands and learning new techniques that he'd like to add to his repertoire so that he can destroy evil that much better. Add a level of Barbarian.

The rogue has been using magic devices so much lately that it may be starting to rub off...new powers from her draconic heritage have been slowly awakening. Add a level of Sorcerer.

[ImperiousLeader]

If I DMed, I'd enforce the XP penalty, but I'd add a little flexibility to favoured classes, for example, I'd allow a Halfling to choose a rogue variant like a ninja or scout to replace rogue as their favoured class.

[Starbuck_II]

Mr. Paladin has been adventuring in savage lands and learning new techniques that he'd like to add to his repertoire so that he can destroy evil that much better. Add a level of Barbarian.

The rogue has been using magic devices so much lately that it may be starting to rub off...new powers from her draconic heritage have been slowly awakening. Add a level of Sorcerer.

Mr. Paladin can't do that. Mr. Ex Paladin can:
You have to stay LG not CG to stay a Paladin.

So that is already supported by rules as not allowing.

[Piccamo]

Mr. Paladin can't do that. Mr. Ex Paladin can:
You have to stay LG not CG to stay a Paladin.

So that is already supported by rules as not allowing.

Thats true, but I was giving flavor reasons to allow it. He used paladin in his example so I used it in mine; take my example and apply it to any other class: Ms. Rogue sees a snarling wildman at the carnival and watches as he defeats a creature many times his size after it had knocked him around a few times. Ms. Rogue had been thinking of learning to be better in a fight, but didn't want to go through the tedious process from her friend, Ms. Fighter. Wildman agrees to teach her his ways in exchange for freedom.

Is that better?

[AmoDman]

I think that the penalty is actually there for a reason - it helps give an advantage to the 'oh so unfortunate' half-elf, although it also makes Humans a little more uber. It's funny that none of the other d20 franchises ever picked this up though - T20 Traveller, Star Wars and d20 Modern all go without it.

A few things I tend to enforce though by way of class restrictions is that people can't mulitclass into barbarians or sorcerers. You have to start at lvl 1 in these classes - something just strikes me as odd about someone saying one day, "okay, I'm going to take my civilized paladin and he's going to start eating with his fingers, not washing and basically living like a barbarian for no reason other than I want to run faster."

For the same reason, sorcery is something that is supposed to just develop in people when they hit puberty. You don't just wake up one morning and start thinking, 'I'm going to start focussing my inner power.'

Both of those examples are wrong. There is nothing about Barbarians that says they must be uncouth and uncivilized. Being a Barbarian is nothing more than adopting fighting techniques of a straightforward, angry manner. Your class does not dictate your character. The only "uncivlized" thing about their required flavor is that they do not gain literacy in their training at level 1 like all the other characters.

As for Sorcerers, there is nothing about hitting puberty. All the "flavor" that the class strictly implies is that you have a hidden, inborn gift for wild magic. That could happen to anybody, at anytime, and they could then choose to utilize that.

[NotCC]

Until now no one I've gamed with has enforced it but were starting a new campaign where it will be used. I'm interested in seeing what a diffrence in party levels it will make because we always have a few crazy multiclassers.

[Turcano]

I don't really see the point to the XP penalties either. As far as base classes go, the loss of caster levels when multiclassing with one or more caster classes is punishment enough, and no one seems to be complaining about how overpowered melee multiclass builds are in comparison to casters. Moreover, most of the "uber-b0rken" builds are done with prestige classes. Guess which group of classes is completely exempt from multiclassing penalties?

[Lord_Kimboat]

Fair enough with the paladin example.

However with multi-classing into Barbarians and Sorcerers, I suppose I have too many people who just see it as a simple choice with no attempt to write it into a back story. I once had a player say to me, "I'll do a bit of studying on sorcerers in the past and that should let me be one right?"

I suppose my restriction was based that these two classes are something innate within the character, not something you train with. If a player came to me and said, "I'd like to level into barbarian next, so I want to head to barbarian lands and live with the people." I'd be happy to let them (and completely shocked) - the players I tend to get however seem more. "Yeah, I'll talk to a barbarian at the local tavern so I should be able to get a level right?"