Is specializing worth it?

[the_tick_rules]

I don't play mages very often I prefer more meele style (yes on this forum someone who likes meele does exist, i expect bears to be shooting lasers at me shortly) but does anyone else not think specializing in a class and receving what is an extra 2 spells in that class but being barred from 2 entire schools is not worth it?

[Bears With Lasers]

There's nothing wrong with liking melee. I like melee, too; I play meleers a bunch.

Specializing gets you an extra spell slot of each level per day. (Plus, if you specialize in divination, you only lose one school). Considering that there are some schools (like Evocation) which have very few useful spells, I'd say that's worth it: it not only gives you endurance, it essentially adds 50% to your highest-level spellcasting when you first get it (i.e. a normal wizard who just hit 9th gets two 5th level slots; a specialist gets 3).

[Ramza00]

On a practical matter almost always yes.

[Emperor Tippy]

And if you don't specialize go elf generalist from Races of the Wild for an extra slot of your highest level.

[Dausuul]

What Bears said. Plus, it adds flavor to a wizard; specialists are (or can be, at least) a bit more interesting than the Generic All-Purpose Caster.

[PaladinBoy]

Personally, every time I've tried to create a specialist, I've looked through my books and can't help but notice all the cool spells which I now can't cast.

I don't like the "diviners only lose one school" thing. It implies that divination is somehow underpowered compared to other schools, I think. (At least, that's what's been pointed out to me.) Whether or not that is true doesn't seem to matter, as if it is true, then it seems a better solution would be to improve divination magic.

[AtomicKitKat]

Divination has less offensive options than the rest.

I personally like to play the "Gotta scribe 'em all!" Generalist Wizard. I do think Evocation is probably the easiest school to drop. Necromancy fills most of the same functions(direct "damage", but Necromancy can hit ability scores, which will down someone faster than hitting their HP). Enchantment and Illusion's main drawbacks are that they generally don't work against undead, constructs, oozes, anything without a mind, etc. In those cases, you take Evocation over them. Necromancy is still slightly useful against Undead, being able to turn them away sometimes(Chill Touch), or using your own powers to get your own force to fight them.

[Variable Arcana]

Specializing is definitely worth it. Even Focussed Specialist is usually worth it.

Being able to select from spells from all eight schools is much less useful than you might think when you've actually got to select the *two* spells that you will have available the next day.

Divination *is* 'underpowered' in the limited sense of wizard specialization -- think of a 3rd level Focussed Diviner. He can prepare four 2nd level spells each day -- but three of them have to be selected from (detect thoughts, locate object, and see invisible). Compare to the 3rd level Focussed Conjurer, who can prepare four 2nd level spells each day -- but three of them have to be selected from (Acid Arrow, Fog Cloud, Glitterdust, Summon Monster II, Summon Swarm, Web). There's no comparison.

[Epiphanis]

OK, its a bit topic-drifty, but I've always thought divination is a pretty good specialization for a wizard, and recent rules additions have made it moreso.

Obviously, the loss of one as opposed to two schools in specialization is sweet.

The Insightful Divination feat from Complete Mage rocks -- initiative is sooo important for a wizard, and the save bonus is a great perk, too.

Wizards have Knowledge (religion) as a class skill, making it relatively easy to qualify for the Divine Oracle prestige class, which is great for a diviner. With a weasel familiar, high dexterity, and the aforementioned Insightful Divination save bonus to get some mileage out of Prescient Sense ability, this class is a good choice. Bringing the Divination spell into your class spell list (as a 3rd level rather than 4th!) is exceptionally useful for spell-preparers, as you can usually get useful hints about what spells to prepare for the next adventure.

[CASTLEMIKE]

I like the UA Domain Mage Variant which gives you a permanent fixed bonus spell and No loss of known schools.

The Archivist from Heroes of Horror is pretty cool IMO using Int and Prayerbooks (Spellbooks) for All Arcane and Divine Spells plus better mechanics IMO D6, 4 SPs, Light and Med armor prof (No spellcasting failure as Divine even for Arcane spells) plus Wizards posted the class on the website.

[Ramza00]

You don't learn arcane spells with archvist.

Archvisit is Divine and Domain spells (Domain are by definition Divine), thus you get some spells that are also on the arcane list.

[Jack Mann]

They don't have access to arcane spells. It's just that many of the best arcane spells appear in one domain or another, making them divine.

EDIT: Damn you, Simu-Ramza!

[its_all_ogre]

yes specialisation is worth it with virtually any school bar evocation, unless you want to play a blaster. then you're better off as a sorcerer/psion/wilder any way.

[Ikkitosen]

I like the idea of only allowing focused specialists into a game - no all round wizards, everone loses 3 schools :) Flavoursome!

[marjan]

I like the idea of only allowing focused specialists into a game - no all round wizards, everone loses 3 schools :) Flavoursome!

Nice idea, though you would probably only see Conjurers and Abjurers in your world.

[marjan]

Taking Focused Specialist with Diviner might actualy be worth it. You could make fortune predicting future.

[Saph]

Specialising is fun for flavour reasons as well as game effectiveness. You come up with a character and then think "what spell school suits this person best?"

On a practical note, purchasing and scribing spells is expensive, both in terms of money and time. A generalist wizard won't be able to scribe 'em all without getting to high level and having a huge amount of spare time to do it in. So a specialist wizard is rarely going to be in a position where they have a whole bunch of spells they'd like, but can't get them. Anyway, coming up with creative ways to solve a problem with the spells you can cast is more fun.

- Saph

[Rigeld2]

You don't learn arcane spells with archvist.

Archvisit is Divine and Domain spells (Domain are by definition Divine), thus you get some spells that are also on the arcane list.

Archivist begins scribing a scroll. He doesnt know the spell, so he has his buddy Wizdude cast the spell. Archivhist can now learn the spell, as its a Divine scroll.

Replace Wiz with any casting class.

[Deus Mortus]

It depends on the campaign imho, the games I play in are rather high level so I usually have acces to some demiplane with arbitrarily fast time, allowing me to planeshift in when I'm out of spells or even want different spells and be back in a round.
Also a campaign with a high difficulty and a alot of planning will benefit from an allround wizard, since you will start with the best possible list of spells.
Then again when the campaign is more of the "go here, kill that and don't about it" type you probably want to specialize, I mostly don't do it since I always envision wizards are knowledgehungry and barring an entire line of spells seems to interfere with that. I usually have enough slots due to +int, spellstoring items anyway, I never have really missed specializing when playing a char above lvl 5.

[Zincorium]

Archivist begins scribing a scroll. He doesnt know the spell, so he has his buddy Wizdude cast the spell. Archivhist can now learn the spell, as its a Divine scroll.

Replace Wiz with any casting class.

The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires.

Normally, I'd say you were right, as the opening paragraph says that usually you can get someone else to cast the spell, but scribe scroll is specifically different as per the above quote, so you'd have to make someone else be the creator of the scroll. Also:

The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)

Your wizard friend cannot create a divine scroll, because the class he is using to create the scroll is arcane. Even if he is a multiclassed wizard/cleric, he's using an arcane class to create a scroll of any arcane spell, which means the scroll is automatically an arcane scroll.


Archivists are powerful, but they're not that broken.

[axraelshelm]

A specialist at low levels have a better chance of surviving than a generalist because that extra spell can most of the time save u and the party.
I'm not sure of the 3.5 ruling of spell schools but in 3.0 just giving up certain high powered schools like evocation (not my point of veiw I like abjuration) you only need to get rid of one any way and in my poit of veiw i rather have a dispel magic/fly or haste than a fireball any way.

[marjan]

A specialist at low levels have a better chance of surviving than a generalist because that extra spell can most of the time save u and the party.
I'm not sure of the 3.5 ruling of spell schools but in 3.0 just giving up certain high powered schools like evocation (not my point of veiw I like abjuration) you only need to get rid of one any way and in my poit of veiw i rather have a dispel magic/fly or haste than a fireball any way.

In 3.5 everyone except Diviner has to drop two schools to specialize.

[Sir Giacomo]

I do think Evocation is probably the easiest school to drop.

Watch out! Evocation gets you Wall of Force/Force Cage and Contingency at higher levels, so those would be quite a loss...

- Giacomo

[marjan]

All of which can be reproduced with (Greater) Shadow Evocation.

But what bothers me most about banning Evocation is that Sending is Evocation spell.

[ImperiousLeader]

Specializing is good at lower levels, those extra spell slots are quite helpful. But at higher levels, with pearls of power and INT boosters, you're gonna have enough bonus spell slots that you'll probably be missing those prohibited schools.

[Sir Giacomo]

All of which can be reproduced with (Greater) Shadow Evocation.

But what bothers me most about banning Evocation is that Sending is Evocation spell.

Ah, forgot about the greater shadow evocation; you'll have to wait for painful 4 levels, though, to have the contingency available...
Sending is also a pain. Maybe can be partially emulated with dream.

- Giacomo

[marjan]

Ah, forgot about the greater shadow evocation; you'll have to wait for painful 4 levels, though, to have the contingency available...
Sending is also a pain. Maybe can be partially emulated with dream.

- Giacomo

Yes but unless you are trying to contact sleeping beaty the chances are by the time guy/girl goes to sleep it will be to late.

[Variable Arcana]

Can also replace the utility of single-spells with magic items at high levels...

No Sending spell... grab a crystal ball with telepathy... or rings of communication (I think that's what they're called)...
If it's just the rest of the party you want to be able to communicate with, telepathic bond isn't an evocation...

If workarounds aren't good enough, a custom item that casts Sending once per day costs about 16k, if I did the math right.

[Orzel]

It depends on the DM. My current DM nerfed the shadow spells. Everyone walks though shadow forcecages and shadow contingency spells backwardsly never happen.

good thing too. That wizard was beating us down.

[Morty]

As others said: totally worth it. Specialis wizard is even more awesome than generalist. You won't have enough spell slots and pages to use all spells anyway, and that extra spell slot is helpful. Besides, I'd specialize even if it was sub-par choice, because it helps you customize a character. Hell, my specialized(Transmutation) and banned(Conjuration and Illusion) schools are purely for flavor.