My Attempt to Improve Two-Weapon Fighting [Feats + PrC]

[RMS Oceanic]

Having read the thread "Why Two-Weapon Fighting Sucks" I've been able to summarize a number of problems with Two-Weapon Fighting, compared to Two-Handed Fighting:

1. A large feat tree required to gain more attacks (and abilities), shutting out useful stuff like combat expertise/cleave etc.
2. A very high dexterity requirement (19) for even the third attack, making it difficult/expensive for those outside rangerhood to attain it.
3. When denied from making a full attack, the TWFer suffers in its ability to deal damage.
4. Each individual attack applies separately to damage reduction, mean more damage is prevented from TWF than THF.

My solution to problem one is to take TWF and make it a growing feat, like Manyshot, so that you automatically gain the greater attacks when you meet the requirements. I have also done the same for two-weapon defense. To solve problem two, I have reduced the dexterity requirement for each level of TWF (15->13, 17->15, 19->17 and 25->19). Thus:

Two-Weapon Fighting
You can fight with a weapon in each hand. You can make an extra attack with the weapon in your off hand with reduced penalties.
Prerequisites: Dex 13 (See text)
Benefits: The penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by 2 for your primaty hand and 6 for your off hand.
When you have a BAB of +6 and a dexterity of at least 15, you gain a second off-hand attack at a -5 penalty.
When you have a BAB of +11 and a dexterity of at least 17, you gain a third off-hand attack at a -10 penalty.
When you have a BAB of +16 and a dexterity of at least 19, you gain a fourth off-hand attack at a -15 penalty.
Normal: The penalty for wielding two weapons is -6 for your primary hand and -10 for your off hand. These are reduced by 2 each if you only wield a light weapon in your hand.
Special: Fighter Bonus Feat.
A Ranger who selects the Two-Weapon Fighting Style is considered to have this feat, and ignores the dexterity requirement for additional attacks, as long as his dexterity is at least 13, and he wears no or light armour.

Two-Weapon Defense
You can use your two weapons to bat away hostile attacks.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Two-Weapon Fighting
Benefit: When wielding two weapons or a double weapon, you get a +1 parry bonus to AC. For each additional attack you would get with your off hand in a full attack (see Two-Weapon fighting), increase this bonus by +1 to a maximum of +4. When fighting defensively (such as using Combat Expertise) or taking the full defense action, double this bonus. e.g. A fighter with this feat who can make two off-hand attacks has a parry bonus of +2 to his AC, which is doubled to +4 when he fights defensively. You lose this bonus whenever you would lose your dexterity bonus to AC.
Special: Fighter Bonus Feat.
A Ranger who selects the Two-Weapon Fighting style can select this feat, but he loses its benefits if his dexterity is less than 13, or he wears medium or heavy armour.

Note that I changed the bonus from shield to parry and linked it with the dexterity bonus, so it could stack with animated shields/improved buckler defense.

To solve problem three, I took the Two-Weapon Pounce and Dual Strike feats and amalgamated them into one feat:

Twin Strike
Your extensive training with two weapons allows you to fight running battles, and strike with both weapons after a charge.
Prerequisites: Two-Weapon Fighting, BAB +7, Dex 14
Benefit: Whenever you would make a single melee attack (such as a standard action, or at the end of a charge), you may instead choose to make one attack with each weapon you wield. If you do, each attack roll has a -2 penalty (negating the bonus of a charge, but still with the -2 to AC).
Special: Fighter Bonus Feat.
A Ranger who selects the Two-Weapon Fighting style can select this feat, but he loses its benefits if he wears medium or heavy armour.

Note for this feat you need a higher dex than the base requirement.

For problem four, I designed a brand new feat:

Two as One
You are skilled at striking with both your weapons simultaneously.
Prerequisites: Two-Weapon Fighting, Twin Strike, Dex 15
Benefit: Whenever you would get to attack at least once with each of your weapons (such as a full attack or the Twin Strike feat), you may choose to make a single attack roll to count as both weapons at the same time. For this roll, take the lowest attack modifier of the two weapons and add a -2 penalty. If the attack hits, all the damage added together in one strike for the purpose of damage reduction. A critical roll has the lower threat range of the two weapons. If a critical roll is confirmed, all the damage (except for additional dice such as flaming or sneak attack) is multiplied by the lower multiplier of the weapons.
E.g. A fighter with a BAB of +11 and dexterity of 15 gets three attacks with his primary hand (a longsword with a threat range of 19-20 and multiplier of x2) and two with his off-hand (a waraxe with a threat range of 20 and a multiplier of x3). He could choose to take one of each attack to count as a single attack, leaving him with two more attacks with his primary hand and one with his off hand. He may repeat this one more time, leaving him with one primary-hand attack. If he chooses to attack this way, he only threatens a critical on a natural 20 (same as the axe) and a confirmed critical’s damage is only doubled (same as the longsword).
Normal: Whenever an attack is made with multiple weapons, each applies separately when considering damage reduction.
Special: Fighter Bonus Feat.
A Ranger who selects the Two-Weapon Fighting style can select this feat, but he loses its benefits if he wears medium or heavy armour.

How are these? Do they cover the shortcomings that TWF has?

I also made up two extra feats that can be beneficial to TWF, but have tougher prerequisites to meet:

Ambidexterous
You can wield weapons equally well in either hand.
Prerequisites: Dex 17, First Level Only
Benefit: Both your hands are considered to be your primary hand. You can apply your full strength modifier to damage regardless of which hand you wield a weapon in. This still only lets you apply 1 ½ times your strength modifier when wielding a one or two-handed weapon in both hands. Treat both your hands as your primary hand for two-weapon fighting. (i.e. both have a -6 penalty without the Two-Weapon Fighting feat) You still incur a heavier penalty if you don’t fight with at least one light weapon or have the Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting feat. If you would have a different number of attacks in your off hand than your primary hand, you may only make your maximum number of attacks with one hand (chosen at the beginning of each attack), and the other hand makes the lower number of attacks.

Three Hand Style Combat
You can fight with a Two Handed Weapon in one hand.
Prerequisites: Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, Monkey Grip, BAB +16, Str 19
Benefit: You may weild any two-handed weapon (such as a Greatsword or a Falchion) of your size in your primary hand. Treat this as a one-handed weapon one size category larger than you (-2 to attack rolls). You may still wield a one handed weapon or any shield in your off hand, but cannot weild a second two-handed weapon. You cannot wield an actual large (if medium) two-handed weapon in one hand.
Special: Fighter Bonus Feat

How do these feats look?

EDIT: Clarified interaction with Rangers.

[open_source.exe]

Very nice, but I see no reason why someone would take Three Hand Style Combat. If someone went from a Longsword to a Greatsword, they would only gain 2.5 average damage, for a -2 penalty on attack rolls, and the loss of a feat. At level 16 (the lowest possible) 2.5 damage is useless. The other feats are nice, however.

[Serania]

Woah. That's some nice stuff. I like most all of it, but yea, I agree with what opensource said.

[RMS Oceanic]

Thanks, guys! Yeah, 3HC is a little weak, but I thought it would be cool to mono-wield a 2HW.

Got another one![/Matthew Waterhouse] This rewards using the same weapon twice:

Dual Wield
When wielding the same type of weapon in both hands, you fight with greater proficiency.
Prerequisites: Greater Weapon Focus, Two-Weapon Fighting, Base Attack Bonus +11, Dex 17 (See text)
Benefit: Choose a weapon for which you have greater weapon focus. Whenever you wield two weapons of this kind, the you gain +2 to your attack rolls and +1 to your damage rolls.
If you are attempting to select this feat for a one-handed weapon rather than a light weapon (such as a waraxe or bastard sword), you require Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting as well.
Special: Fighter Bonus Feat.
You may select this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you select this feat, you choose a different weapon type for it to apply to.

How does that look?

[Spikes01k]

Thanks, guys! Yeah, 3HC is a little weak, but I thought it would be cool to mono-wield a 2HW.

Got another one![/Matthew Waterhouse] This rewards using the same weapon twice:

Dual Wield
When wielding the same type of weapon in both hands, you fight with greater proficiency.
Prerequisites: Greater Weapon Focus, Two-Weapon Fighting, Base Attack Bonus +11, Dex 17 (See text)
Benefit: Choose a weapon for which you have greater weapon focus. Whenever you wield two weapons of this kind, the you gain +2 to your attack rolls and +1 to your damage rolls.
If you are attempting to select this feat for a one-handed weapon rather than a light weapon (such as a waraxe or bastard sword), you require Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting as well.
Special: Fighter Bonus Feat.
You may select this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you select this feat, you choose a different weapon type for it to apply to.

How does that look?

They already have this feat, its called duel strike, its in the CW I think. It has less requirements really.

[RMS Oceanic]

No, Dual Strike (Complete Adventurer) lets you make a single attack with each of your weapons as a standard action, with restrictions and limits similar to Manyshot. As far as I know, there is no feat that grants you a bonus for using two of the same weapon, short of using two light weapons without OTWF.

[Imrix.]

I adore these, good on you for making them. Finally, some decent feats for the style...

[Indon]

Perhaps you should reword Twin Strike.

As it is, a character wielding a longsword, a spiked shield, and wearing spiked armor can make 3 separate attacks; one with each weapon they're wielding. Mind also the possibility of multi-armed characters. Of course, that may be your intent.

I like them, overall. Three-hand-style has a really, really high BAB requirement, though.

[Lord Iames Osari]

These look a heck of a lot like feats that I made up... are you sure you aren't me?

Ambidexterity [General]
You can use both hands in combat equally well.
Prerequisites: Str 15, Dex 15.
Benefit: Your off hand is treated as your on hand when fighting with two weapons. That is, you take -6 to attack rolls made with either hand when fighting with two weapons. If you have the Two Weapon Fighting Feat, this is reduced to -4, as this feat reduces penalties to attacks made with your on hand by two. If you also have the Oversized Two Weapon Fighting feat, or wield at least one light weapon, the penalties to all attacks are -2.
Attacks made with your off hand add your full strength bonus to damage rolls.
Normal: See Table 8-10: Two Weapon Fighting Penalties on page 160 of the PHB.
Special: A character need not have this feat to be able to write with both hands.
A 6th level ranger who has selected the two-weapon combat style is treated as having Ambidexterity, even if he does not have the prerequisites for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor.
A fighter may take this feat as a fighter bonus feat.

Twin Threat [General]
You have honed your skills at fighting with two weapons to the point where you no longer suffer from a decrease in accuracy.
Prerequisites: BAB +10, Str 15, Dex 19, Ambidexterity, Power Attack, Two-Weapon Fighting, Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting.
Benefit: You take no penalty on attack rolls when fighting with two weapons or a double weapon.
Special: An 11th level ranger who has selected the two-weapon combat style is treated as having Twin Threat, even if he does not have the prerequisites for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor.
A fighter may select Twin Threat as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Two As One [General]
When you are using two light weapons, you can make a single powerful strike with both weapons at once.
Prerequisites: BAB +3, Str 13, Dex 15, Power Attack, Two-Weapon Fighting.
Benefit: When you are wielding two identical light weapons, you may forego your normal full attack routine in order to make a single powerful attack. This attack, which is treated as a two-handed weapon, deals damage equal to the sum of the damage dice of both of your weapons. Your Strength modifier is applied to this damage as if you were wielding a single two-handed weapon. For example, a fighter with Str 14 who used this feat with two shortwords would deal 2d6+3 points of peircing damage.

Two-Weapon Defense [General]
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Two-Weapon Fighting.
Benefit: While fighting with two weapons or a double weapon, you gain a +1 shield bonus to AC. For every iterative attack you gain with your primary weapon as a result of having a high base attack bonus, this shield bonus increases by 1. While fighting defensively or using the total defense action, the shield bonus provided by this feat doubles.
Special: A fighter may select Two-Weapon Defense as one of his fighter bonus feats. This feat replaces the version of Two-Weapon Defense found in the PHB.

Two-Weapon Fighting [General]
You can fight with a weapon in each hand. You can make one extra attack each round with the second weapon.
Prerequisite: Dex 15.
Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6. See the Two-Weapon Fighting special attack. For every iterative attack you gain with your primary weapon as a result of having a high base attack bonus, you gain an additional attack with your off-hand weapon, suffering an additional -5 penalty for every off-hand attack after the first.
Normal: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a -6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a -10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light the penalties are reduced by 2 each. (An unarmed strike is always considered light.)
Special: A 2nd-level ranger who has chosen the two-weapon combat style is treated as having Two-Weapon Fighting, even if he does not have the prerequisite for it, but only when he is wearing light or no armor.
A fighter may select Two-Weapon Fighting as one of his fighter bonus feats. This feat replaces the version of Two-Weapon Fighting found in the PHB.

[Latronis]

And how would this affect a TWF ranger?

[Lord Iames Osari]

Is that at me or Oceanic? I stated how it affects the ranger, so I'm assuming you're talking to Oceanic.

[RMS Oceanic]

These look a heck of a lot like feats that I made up... are you sure you aren't me?

I'm pretty sure I'm not you, but you can never be certain, eh?

Apologies if I inadvertantly stole your ideas. I just read parts of "Why two-weapon fighting sucks" diagnosed problems with the style and devised feats to overcome these problems and improve the style as a viable option. No thunder-stealing was intended.

And how would this affect a TWF ranger?

I hadn't really though about it from a Ranger's perspective, so here are my thoughts on it:

- A second level ranger is treated as having TWF and ignores the dexterity requirements for gaining additional attacks, but only in light/no armour.
- At 6th level and every five levels after that (11th, 16th etc.), a TWF ranger may select a bonus feat which has TWF (or a feat that requires TWF) as part of its prerequisites. He must qualify for it. If wearing medium/heavy armour, he loses the benefits of these feats.

Does that throw Rangers out of whack?

[Lord Iames Osari]

No problem. There are only so many ways to approach the problem, after all, so it's not that surprising that two people would have eerily similar solutions.

[RMS Oceanic]

Thanks for clearing that up. :)

If you don't want to use variant rules, I've come up with an alternative: a TWF prestige class! I realised that few prestige classes (The Dervish and Exotic Weapon Master, pretty much) aid TWF, so I decided to come up with one of my own:

Dual Wielder
Let's face it, there's only so much you can do with a single weapon. By picking up a second weapon to fight with, you can do so much more. Dual Wielders find standard two-handed or sword-and-shield combat boring and prefer a bit of style. What can be more stylish than disappearing behind a steel-coloured blur?

Fighters far and away make up the bulk of Dual Wielders, while a few Ranger who select the two-weapon fighting style seek to advance their style to a new level, as do some Samurai. Paladins who combat evil directly also occasionally see merit in improving this difficult to master style. Barbarians have little time for the training and agility needed.
Hit Die: d10

Requirements
Abilities: Dex 17
Base Attack Bonus: +6
Feats: Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus(any)

Class Skills
Jump (Str), Climb(Str), Swim(Str), Tumble(Dex), Perform(Weapon Drill) (Cha), Craft (Int), Ride (Str), Handle Animal (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex)
Skill Points per level: 2 + Int

Dual Wielder
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Parry AC Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|

+1

|

+0

|

+2

|

+2

|

+0

|Ambidexterous, Bonus Feat, Pouncing Blur 1/day

2nd|

+2

|

+0

|

+3

|

+3

|

+0

|Shared Quality

3rd|

+3

|

+1

|

+3

|

+3

|

+1

|Bonus Feat

4th|

+4

|

+1

|

+4

|

+4

|

+1

|Pouncing Blur 2/day

5th|

+5

|

+2

|

+4

|

+4

|

+1

|Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Wraithstrike 1/day

6th|

+6

|

+2

|

+5

|

+5

|

+2

|Shared Focus, Bonus Feat

7th|

+7

|

+3

|

+5

|

+5

|

+2

|Pouncing Blur 3/day

8th|

+8

|

+3

|

+6

|

+6

|

+2

|Steady Strike

9th|

+9

|

+4

|

+6

|

+6

|

+3

|Shared Specialization, Bonus Feat

10th|

+10

|

+4

|

+7

|

+7

|

+3

|Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting, Pouncing Blur 4/day, Wraithstrike 2/day[/table]

Class Features
Dual Wielders gain no new proficiency with any weapon or armour.
Ambidexterous: There is no such thing as an off-hand for a Dual Wielder. Regardless of which hand a weapon is wielded in, he applies his full strength modifier to damage rolls.
Bonus Feats: At first level, a Dual Wielder selects a Bonus Feat from the list of Fighter Bonus feats for which they meet the requirements. At third level and every three levels after that (6th, 9th), a Dual wielder selects an additional bonus feat.
Pouncing Blur: Once per day, a Dual Wielder can make a full attack action as a standard action, or after a charge, as long as he moves at least 10 feet before the attack. He takes a -2 penalty to all attack rolls made in this attack, and can only attack opponents in his threatened area. This is strenuous, however, and the Dual Wielder cannot make a move action in the round after this attack, and can only take a standard action, even if he has additional uses of Pouncing Blur. At 4th level, and every three levels after that, he gains an additional use of Pouncing Blur. Pouncing Blur is considered an extraorinary ability, so a Dual Wielder is not incumbered when fighting in an Anti-Magic field.
Shared Quality: When a weapon a second level Dual Wielder holds has a certain property, that property is applied to both weapons. For example if one of his weapons were made of Adamantine, then both are considered to be made of Adamantine for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Parry Bonus: At 3rd level, a Dual Wielder is more proficient in deflecting blows aimed at him. He gets a +1 parry bonus to AC. If he would lose any dexterity bonus to his AC, he loses this bonus as well. The bonus increases by +1 every two levels, and applies against touch attacks.
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting: A 5th Level Dual Wielder gains Greater Two-Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat, even if he doesn't meet the requirements. If he already has it, he may instead choose a bonus feat from the Fighter list.
Wraithstrike: Once per day, a 5th Level Dual Wielder can fight as though his enemies are standing still, and he doesn't have to worry about his foe's armour. He may choose act as though under the Wraithstrike spell for one round as an extraordinary ability, and any melee attacks he makes that round are treated as melee touch attacks. He cannot do this in conjunction with his pouncing blur ability, and must choose to do this at the beginning of his turn. He gets an additional use of this at 10th level.
Shared Focus: If a 6th Level Dual Wielder is wielding at least one weapon he has Weapon Focus or Greater Weapon Focus for, he may apply those feats to his other weapon if it is not the same. In addition, if he wields the same type of weapon in both hands or a double weapon, he gains an additional +2 bonus to attack rolls.
Steady Strike: An 8th Level Dual Wielder can attack with a sure-footed attitude, no matter who he fights. If he makes a full attack (including attacks made with his pouncing blur ability), for each weapon he wield, he may choose to treat one attack roll with that weapon that round as though he rolled 10.
Shared Specialization: If a 9th Level Dual Wielder is wielding at least one weapon he has Weapon Specialization or Greater Weapon Specialization for, he may apply those feats to his other weapon if it is not the same. In addition, if he wields the same type of weapon in both hands or a double weapon, he gains an additional +2 bonus to damage rolls.
Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting: A 10th Level Dual Wielder gains Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat, even if he doesn't meet the requirements. If he already has it, he may instead choose a bonus feat from the Fighter list.
Multiclass Notes: A Dual Wielder's class level stacks with any fighter levels the character has for selecting feats that require a certain fighter level, such as weapon specialization.
A sixth level Ranger who has chosen the two-weapon fighting style may choose to take this prestige class if his dexterity is at least 17, but he loses the effects of Ambidexterous, Parry Bonus, Pouncing Blur, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Nimble Strike, Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting and Wraithstrike if he wears medium or heavy armour, as he has lost the prerequisites for joining the class. He retains the hit dice and other bonus feats of the class, as long as he still qualifies for them.

This basically takes the feats I've designed and converted them into class features. I'm not sure about the requirements, but I don't know what approach to make it a bit tougher to enter. What do you think?

EDIT: Clarified Ranger Interaction, added slightly nerfed Wraithstrike.

EDIT EDIT: Reduced feats, replaced Nimble Strike (too swashbucklery) with Steady Strike, increased Wraithstrike.

[Latronis]

I believe i asking Oceanic though i don't really remember, I think originally it didnt have the ranger bits in the feat descriptions.

[RMS Oceanic]

Good point. I have updated the feats and prestige class to account for the Ranger's fighting style.

[Knight13]

There's already a PrC for dual-wielders, it's called the Tempest. Look for it in Masters of the Wild and the newer version in Complete Adventurer.

[Tyrael]

How does all of this apply to multi-armed characters, like a Thri-Keen?

[RMS Oceanic]

It doesn't, really. That's the domain of the Multi-attack Feat, which I don't know much about. I'm pretty much assuming this is for base races.