Slings and Thrown Weapons

[RobbieOC]

Is there ever a good reason to use them? I can't seem to come up with an effective way, but I'm notoriously bad at optimization. It's an interesting idea to me, so if anyone has any ideas, I'd love to hear them. Thanks.

[KIDS]

Well, at low levels, for a character with reasonable strength they're cheap and free (in case of slings) and do good damage. Of course, later you will get a good longbow, but in case you aren't proficient enough... it works out fine. Just don't forget to take Rapid Reload (sling) when you get multiple attacks.

[Kultrum]

my most broken char ever used thrown weapons. 2 lvl rogue + 3 lvl warblade + 5 lvl bloodstorm blade + 5 lvl throwing master + Greater Invisibility + two weapon fighting = 4 +1 kukri that hit enemy A twice then hit enemy B then return from 30 ft away every round thats 16d6+8 against A and 8d6+4 against B it was sick and wrong

[martyboy74]

my most broken char ever used thrown weapons. 2 lvl rogue + 3 lvl warblade + 5 lvl bloodstorm blade + 5 lvl throwing master + Greater Invisibility + two weapon fighting = 4 +1 kukri that hit enemy A twice then hit enemy B then return from 30 ft away every round thats 16d6+8 against A and 8d6+4 against B it was sick and wrong

24d6+12 isn't very broken...

[Kultrum]

oh ya every thing also had AC 10

[Kultrum]

and was before we made the spear launchers, and the rules for crits with returning curve-spiked hammers

[Kel_Arath]

haha, dudes slings are the shiz. ive had a level 1 halfling wizard with a +8 to attack with slings, only a d3 but still. also thrown weapons are good, maybe not for straight damage, but for improv/tactics. "o whats that, you have an escape rope that is hard to hit with arrows and im fresh out of serpent tongues? ill just throw my (insert slashing weapon here)" and seeing as the rope has an AC of about 16 or so... splat!

[Person_Man]

Master Thrower PrC from Complete Warrior is one of the strongest non-magical PrC in the game. The 5th level capstone ability let's you make thrown attacks as touch attacks. Combined with their other tricks and the right feats, and you get a deadly ranged combatant.

You can also use the Harpoon of Returning combo. Harpoons do the same damage coming out that they do going in. So if you buy a magical Harpoon of Returning, you essentially do double damage on every hit.

[ocato]

Throwing weapons are also light so you can whip a dart or a dwarven arrow at someone without much trouble. You can't exactly quickdraw that longbow, ace.

[Arbitrarity]

haha, dudes slings are the shiz. ive had a level 1 halfling wizard with a +8 to attack with slings, only a d3 but still. also thrown weapons are good, maybe not for straight damage, but for improv/tactics. "o whats that, you have an escape rope that is hard to hit with arrows and im fresh out of serpent tongues? ill just throw my (insert slashing weapon here)" and seeing as the rope has an AC of about 16 or so... splat!

0.o... why?

I mean, to do that, you get +2 from halfling (small and that throw thingy they get), +0 BAB, +5 max dex, +1... weapon focus?! Or MW sling.

Why?! Why?!

Oh yes, I'm a wizard. I'm very mobile. I likely am relatively stupid, and not too tough, but boy, can I own things with slings! I even have this super sling worth more than your armour, fighter!

Weird thing is, you can quickdraw longbow :D.

Thrown weapons can TWF, might be suboptimal, especially with range, but a rogue winning initiative and full attack TWFing with darts isn't bad :D.

[ocato]

Weird thing is, you can quickdraw longbow :D.

Really. I am having one of those days.

[Orzel]

Slings and throwing axes go through windwalls. They'll miss alot but you can still hit the guys behind it.

[RobbieOC]

Master Thrower PrC from Complete Warrior is one of the strongest non-magical PrC in the game. The 5th level capstone ability let's you make thrown attacks as touch attacks. Combined with their other tricks and the right feats, and you get a deadly ranged combatant.

Which feats would you suggest?

[Reptilus]

Psinoic throwing knives are some of the most horrfically broken things ever, if one applies them correctly. I once made a rogue who did upwards of 200d6 a round with the things at level 22. Partially because of the sheer number of attacks he was allowed, but still, the return rates were brutal. It would've been a little higher if I'd used harpoons, but a harpoon-throwing rogue honestly just seemed lame.

[ocato]

Feats: probably point blank shot (since most thrown items are thrown inside a "point blank radius" anyway) weapon feats such as focus, speciailization and if you get carried away, their greater versions (maybe start fighter and go master thrower, I can't remember the prerequisites). Precise shot... It seems that a throwing weapon has the benefit of applying for ranged and melee feats with pretty good effectiveness. Sky's the limit ears, sky's the limit.

[Tach13]

Outside of the obvious feats (Weapon Focus and all that), and outside of Master Thrower's Thrown Weapon Tricks, I think DeadEye Shot from Player's Handbook II looks VERY good for a Rogue, especially one who doesn't yet qualify for MasterThrower. It lets you hold your attack to immediately follow one of your melee companions, and if you do that you get the target to loose it's dexterity bonus and therefore you get to sneak attack. Deft Strike from Complete Adventurer also let's you (with a DC =opponents Armor class) make your attack ignore his armor. Not quite as good as the Master Thrower's level 5 ability to make it a touch attack, but it will also let you use it in melee, and can be achieved much quicker or if you don't want to take full ranks in Master Thrower.

[argentsaber]

Craven feat adds character level to damage much of the time for a master thrower. Also, never underestimate the potential of fire seeds and a sling.

As an aside, a sling might be free (I generally charge a SP for them on craftsmanship), but BULLET ammo is not. though it can be nearly so if you allow them to shoot rocks (stone special material, slightly lowers damage though). Also, cold iron/silver/whatever bullets are likely far easier to make in a hurry than arrows.

[Person_Man]

Which feats would you suggest?

That depends on what books are available to you and what you want to do.

For defense, put a whip in your off hand (don't worry, you won't be attacking with it, so don't worry about proficiency or TWF, it's just there to threaten) and pick up Combat Reflexes, Evasive Reflexes, Hold the Line, Dodge, and Karmic Strike. Evasive Reflexes let's you trade a 5' step for an AoO. Hold the Line gives you an AoO whenever someone charges you, which you trade in for a 5' step. The whip of course gives a large threatened range, and whenever someone moves through it you'll get an AoO, which you trade in for a 5' step. And Karmic Strike gives you an AoO whenever someone hits you, which you trade in for a 5' step. Taken together, and its almost impossible for someone to charge you or full attack you unless you're in a confined space (and if you are, I suggest you run away until you're not in a confined space). With the Master Thrower Trip and touch attack Trips, you'll be able to tie up pretty much everyone.

For offense, pick up a Harpoon of Returning, and use Brutal Throw, Power Throw, Hurling Charge, Power Attack, and Leap Attack. Brutal Throw replaces Str for Dex for the To-Hit of Thrown Weapons. Power Throw is Power Attack for Thrown weapons. Hurling Charge let's you make a thrown attack just before a charge attack. The exact build will vary by the ECL, but it needs one level of Pyrokineticist. The combo is Charge, throw a Harpoon for a ton of damage, Leap Attack two handed with your fire whip (again, a touch attack), then at the beginning of the Harpoon comes back to you, dealing more damage. This build has an advantage over standard Pyro builds in that you also use ranged throws effectively. But its very feat hungry, so you can only pull it off at a high level.

But the best combos come out of the Tome of Battle, where there are a ton of tricks that become utterly absurd if you resolve your thrown attacks as touch attacks.

[Rigeld2]

Except...

Whips dont threaten. At all. So your entire first paragraph is wrong.

A whip deals nonlethal damage. It deals no damage to any creature with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher. The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don’t threaten the area into which you can make an attack. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, you can use it against foes anywhere within your reach (including adjacent foes).

Emphasis mine.