Alter Self...for combat?

[Cowboy_ninja]

does alterself have any combat uses? im looking through all the "humanoids" i can turn into but nothing really sticks out (besides werewolves/tigers/bears/etc.). can i turn into monstrous humanoids?

[Bears With Lasers]

No, you can't turn into humanoids. You also can't turn into were-critters--that's a template.

The default "combat form" is either Troglodyte (+6 Natural Armor, 2 claw attacks and a bite attack) or a similar lizard-type critter from a noncorebook, or whatever humanoid flying race your world has (i.e. Raptorans, Avariel, etc).

[martyboy74]

Unless your playing an Elan. Then you get to have lots of fun.

[Bears With Lasers]

Better yet, an outsider of some kind (aasimar, Neraph for LA +0, character with the Otherworldly regional feat from FR). Alter Self into a Dwarf Ancestor. Just check the NA on that thing.

[Cowboy_ninja]

No, you can't turn into humanoids. You also can't turn into were-critters--that's a template.

what you mean i cant turn into a humanoid? i thought i can ONLY turn into humanoids because i AM a humanoid. Isn't that how alter self works? you can turn into any form that is the same type as your normal form.... and me being a human, elf dwarf, or other core races means i can only turn into humanoids right?

[Bears With Lasers]

Er, yes. You can't turn into monstrous humanoids. They're different from Humanoids.

[Cowboy_ninja]

Er, yes. You can't turn into monstrous humanoids. They're different from Humanoids.

ok..... so where do outsiders come in? their not humanoid.....

[Talya]

What setting are you in?

Raptorans (for general settings), or Averiel (for Faerun) are great alter self choices....winged humanoids with flight!

Outsiders can only turn into other outsiders.

[Cowboy_ninja]

What setting are you in?

Raptorans (for general settings), or Averiel (for Faerun) are great alter self choices....winged humanoids with flight!

Outsiders can only turn into other outsiders.

not really in a setting. if its in a book it exists. but we dont use the fearun or ebarron stuff.

[Morty]

ok..... so where do outsiders come in? their not humanoid.....

I belive the trick is to start out as outsider of some sort, and then turn into some other nasty outsider.

[Roland St. Jude]

ok..... so where do outsiders come in? their not humanoid.....

Outsiders only come in if you can choose a starting race that has the outsider type. Then you can alter self into an outsider, of which there are many tasty options.

[Cowboy_ninja]

Outsiders only come in if you can choose a starting race that has the outsider type. Then you can alter self into an outsider, of which there are many tasty options.

ok so if im a humanoid....... what are the best options?

[Bears With Lasers]

Troglodyte (+6 NA is a lot) and Avariel or Raptoran.

[Collin152]

Troglodyte. Like, +6 natural armor.
EDIT: Simu-Ninja'd!

[Talya]

not really in a setting. if its in a book it exists. but we dont use the fearun or ebarron stuff.

Raptorans are in the book "Races of the Wild," as i recall.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050204a

Avariel are nicer, though.

[Cowboy_ninja]

what about bug bear? would i get the +4 str, +2 dex, +2 Con racial bonuses?

[Amiria]

You don't get any stats of the target creature with Alter Self. Polymorph is neccessary for this (the physical stats only).

You retain your own ability scores.

[Bears With Lasers]

This is what happens when we don't read our spells, kids.

[Townopolis]

Alter Self can be a really powerful combat spell, but you have to know how to use it well and what to turn into for the specific situation. You'll also need some good skills to go with it.

For example, you party is fighting a bunch of troglodytes. The best use of Alter Self in this situation would probably be to Alter Self into a troglodyte from hiding, and then run up to the troglodyte leader and tell him that a platoon of knights are riding to the scene and your troggy friends had better clear out or face termination. You'll usually need a bluff check, but that's why I said you'll also need some good skills to go with it.

[Caledonian]

Even better, turn yourself into a copy of one of your human opponents.

[Raum]

If you have 30 minutes and a few ranks in Disguise you can do so.

While Alter Self gives a +10 to Disguise, it does not shorten the time it takes to create said disguise.

[Annarrkkii]

Personally, I find alter self to be a very useful spell, but you're better off not preparing it if you're planning on doing much fighting. Sure, turning into a troggy while maintaining the majority of your normal abilities and gaining a few of his is nice, but it's easily trumped by glitterdust, or even something like scorching ray or acid arrow. But yes. In combat, a trog is probably one of the best bets you have, as unappealing as it is.

[Jack Mann]

The ability to fly for 10 minutes per caster level is nothing to be scoffed at. nor is getting +6 to your AC. Sure, if you're low on spell slots, you're better off tossing out glitterdust, but there isn't a buff spell better at that level. It's sure as hell a lot better than casting something like scorching ray or acid arrow.

[JaronK]

Crucian, Miniatures Handbook: +8 Nat AC
Earth Mephling, Planar Handbook, 10' Burrow Speed.

[Krimm_Blackleaf]

I like the idea of using Alter Self to become a troglodyte for the natural armor, natural weapons and I believe multiattack as a bonus feat.